Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The sheriff said the husband was found sitting upright. That seems so odd to me. If there aren’t any trees to brace himself on and he’s done this long hike in extreme heat, what’s propping him up? How would he find the strength to sit upright? Wouldn’t he topple over in death? It takes an effort to be sitting upright when you’re feeling ill. I would have imagine he would lie down. Just so strange..

One theory is the frame hiking baby carrier held him up.

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that the linked Update article says a witness saw them that day on the trail.

Anonymous wrote:
Poachers sometimes use carbofuran. I once read that a hunter warned a woman not to let dogs go through a plot and the woman ignored him. When the dogs reached that place, the dogs collapsed in front of their eyes.

Anonymous wrote:The sheriff said the husband was found sitting upright. That seems so odd to me. If there aren’t any trees to brace himself on and he’s done this long hike in extreme heat, what’s propping him up? How would he find the strength to sit upright? Wouldn’t he topple over in death? It takes an effort to be sitting upright when you’re feeling ill. I would have imagine he would lie down. Just so strange..

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After reading through all the information, it doesn't sound like they intended to do a day long hike. And if the dog didn't have protection for it's feet, Jonathan probably found himself trying to carry the dog AND the baby. With the scorching temperatures, he reached a point where he simply couldn't go any further. He was probably also developing heat stroke. And that's why he was found in the sitting position with the dog and baby next to him.
Then his wife was also succumbing to heat stroke. I gather they were trying to stick together as a group, but when Jonathan couldn't go any further she ventured ahead to seek help. Maybe due to her health issues she couldn't take the baby with her. By then it was too late. Soon after she also collapsed.
Very heartbreaking and tragic.

I think this is right, and I’ve been posting on this thread since the 3rd page.

At the end, sticking together is what killed them. At a certain point, you need to ditch the “fur baby” if you’re struggling to physically save yourself or a child. I know it’s terrible, but the best course of action was to leave the dog behind tied up in a shady location. That older dog with the heavy fur likely began having trouble first, either thru burned paws or heat exhaustion. I’m willing to bet money on it. They then killed themselves struggling to help the dog.

Had they managed to get back to safety and cell phone reception, they could’ve called the park service and gotten the fire gate unlocked. The rancher could then drive the fire road to rescue the dog.

I think the big story here is that people need to be a lot more careful when taking their pets on outdoor adventures. If something bad happens, you need to face the fact that you may be put in a situation where you will need to sacrifice your animal. This recently happened to a friend of mine who was involved in a sinking sailboat incident off the coast of California - his dog was left on the boat and lost at sea.

I agree with this theory - that the dog faltered first and they all followed.

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that the linked Update article says a witness saw them that day on the trail.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread makes me feel better about being somewhat of a couch potato.

+1. Exercise is dangerous!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread makes me feel better about being somewhat of a couch potato.

+1. Exercise is dangerous!

Anonymous wrote:Interesting that the linked Update article says a witness saw them that day on the trail.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After reading through all the information, it doesn't sound like they intended to do a day long hike. And if the dog didn't have protection for it's feet, Jonathan probably found himself trying to carry the dog AND the baby. With the scorching temperatures, he reached a point where he simply couldn't go any further. He was probably also developing heat stroke. And that's why he was found in the sitting position with the dog and baby next to him.
Then his wife was also succumbing to heat stroke. I gather they were trying to stick together as a group, but when Jonathan couldn't go any further she ventured ahead to seek help. Maybe due to her health issues she couldn't take the baby with her. By then it was too late. Soon after she also collapsed.
Very heartbreaking and tragic.

I think this is right, and I’ve been posting on this thread since the 3rd page.

At the end, sticking together is what killed them. At a certain point, you need to ditch the “fur baby” if you’re struggling to physically save yourself or a child. I know it’s terrible, but the best course of action was to leave the dog behind tied up in a shady location. That older dog with the heavy fur likely began having trouble first, either thru burned paws or heat exhaustion. I’m willing to bet money on it. They then killed themselves struggling to help the dog.

Had they managed to get back to safety and cell phone reception, they could’ve called the park service and gotten the fire gate unlocked. The rancher could then drive the fire road to rescue the dog.

I think the big story here is that people need to be a lot more careful when taking their pets on outdoor adventures. If something bad happens, you need to face the fact that you may be put in a situation where you will need to sacrifice your animal. This recently happened to a friend of mine who was involved in a sinking sailboat incident off the coast of California - his dog was left on the boat and lost at sea.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in the SW, in an area that is seeing highs in the range of 103-108 (like the day they went hiking). I think the piece of this i STILL cannot understand, is why they were on this hike or what they were doing.

Yes, I know people die all the time of heat stroke. But they KNEW this area, it’s not like many of the cases listed here where it was tourists. I know they’d only lived there a year but that’s plenty of time to be familiar enough with the heat.

Also, living in this desert climate….it’s not like DC. It’s not like the weather is a surprise to anyone. They would have known the forecast for the day. There’s simply no way they didn’t know how hot it was and what was coming. It’s really really hot, every day, for months.

Even assuming that they got a later start than they planned or just somehow didn’t fully realize the heat, there’s no way they wouldn’t have realized soon into their hike that it is REALLY hot out and only getting hotter and there’s no shade. I don’t see why they wouldn’t have anticipated that things were going south. Not in an OMG we are gonna die kind of way. But just in a “this isn’t goood for the baby and really sucks” kind of way. You don’t need to be an expert hiker to discern those things. Why didn’t they turn back sooner into the hike?

Also….1 year olds don’t like to be in hiking carriers for hours. They just don’t. The baby had turned 1 in august.

The whole trip was weirdly conceived.

Now keep a few things in mind….

1. They went somewhere that they likely knew would have no foot traffic
2. They told no one where they were going
3. according to some reports, they did not bring very much water
4. They knew the conditions of the area and where they were going in advance (not clueless tourists)

I go back and forth between FA and heat stroke, but the hike was so ill conceived, and they stuck to it. It strikes me as just not adding up to an accidental hike gone wrong.

Maybe the hike was ill-conceived, like the ultra marathoner mentioned up thread who went out for a run on a 105+ day with no water and died within hours. Or maybe they only intended to have a short hike, as the amount of water they brought indicated. I've heard nothing about food packed for lunch or snacks, so a day-long hike doesn't make sense.

The pieces don't seem to fit together.