Before NCLB, we had standardized tests--but they were used differently. Why does it matter if we compare a school in Bethesda to one in Oklahoma?

Anonymous wrote:

The ignorance on this thread is astounding. For all the people who think Common Core is going to destroy the creativity and autonomy of our schools hasn't spent time in an actual school in a long time. The ability of teachers to teach creatively and innovate their curriculum went the way of the dinosaur thanks to NCLB and the standardized tests that resulted from NCLB.

Totally agree. NCLB has to go-as does Common Core. Neither are improving education.

Here's a relevant article from the Washington Post, about test results at an Arlington school.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/poor-hispanic-school-focuses-on-test-prep-sees-huge-gains-but-can-it-be-replicated/2015/01/10/5a65ca1c-5b95-11e4-8264-deed989ae9a2_story.html

The relevant paragraph:

Critics believe the obsessive focus on data is misguided and is forcing educators to use valuable class time to prepare children for tests. Supporters say the tests hold teachers and schools accountable and are a good way to judge whether students are reaching benchmarks that will lead to academic success.

My personal opinion is that the critics and supporters are both correct. The NCLB testing is bad; but without the NCLB testing, we know even less.

(Note that this is about a school in Virginia, which did not adopt the Common Core standards.)

Anonymous wrote:

The ignorance on this thread is astounding. For all the people who think Common Core is going to destroy the creativity and autonomy of our schools hasn't spent time in an actual school in a long time. The ability of teachers to teach creatively and innovate their curriculum went the way of the dinosaur thanks to NCLB and the standardized tests that resulted from NCLB.

Totally agree. NCLB has to go-as does Common Core. Neither are improving education.

How are people going to prove that elementary schools in Bethesda and Potomac are better than elementary schools anywhere else in the county, if there aren't NCLB test scores to refer to? They'll have to use demographic data, instead of claiming that they're relying on test scores, which are a proxy for demographic data...

The ignorance on this thread is astounding. For all the people who think Common Core is going to destroy the creativity and autonomy of our schools hasn't spent time in an actual school in a long time. The ability of teachers to teach creatively and innovate their curriculum went the way of the dinosaur thanks to NCLB and the standardized tests that resulted from NCLB.

Totally agree. NCLB has to go-as does Common Core. Neither are improving education.

The ignorance on this thread is astounding. For all the people who think Common Core is going to destroy the creativity and autonomy of our schools hasn't spent time in an actual school in a long time. The ability of teachers to teach creatively and innovate their curriculum went the way of the dinosaur thanks to NCLB and the standardized tests that resulted from NCLB.

Think there were no standards before Common Core? Think again. There have always been standards, whether you were aware of them or not. Since at least 2008 DC teachers have been required to post on the board and in their lesson plans which DC content standard was being met by the lesson. CC is not some new invention. It's just a new set of standards leading to a new kind of test. The problem is not the standards, the problem is how adequately we prepare and support teachers in learning new strategies and implement new curriculum to meet the standards.

The other thing I find kind of fascinating on this thread is the disconnect posters seem to have between standardized testing and their own perception of a "good" school. Wander on over to the DC Public School threads where people are trying to order their lottery picks. What is one of the first things they research to decide whether a school is good or not? Test scores. You can't have it both ways. If you want to use test scores to judge a school or a teacher, then you have to accept standardized tests and the standards on which they are based.

If you think all standardized tests are bad and you never judge a school by test scores, at least you are showing a little more internal consistency. That's a worthy battle and opens the door to more holistic forms of assessment and reintroducing creativity back into teaching.

Do you understand that in every class there will be kids who are ahead and who are behind? That is not a factor of standards. What are you going to do about that?

Yes it is a problem, and it's a big problem! Many schools teach various parts of the curriculum at different grade levels, for example switching around History classes, emphasis on particular aspects of grammar and other things - I know this for a fact, from personal knowledge as this was an issue I've seen from personal experience over the years from having moved, also I've seen it time and time again in comparing friends and relatives experiences with what grade certain things are taught at and some of their frustrations from having changed schools. Not to mention huge disparities in school quality.

So, what are you going to do about the disparity in student quality? Are those ahead of the standards going to have to wait for everyone else to catch up?

Good schools and teachers evaluate what a child is "missing" or diagnose those missing elements as the child is going through the material. Teachers constantly go back and reteach previous units so that students can move on. It becomes very obvious when this is the reason that a child is not doing well (and it usually happens in courses like math where skills build on each other). It does not happen in history or English so much (as you have given as your examples above). Even if all schools were "in sync" and teaching exactly the same things at the same grade levels on the same days, there would be students who needed remediation because they had been out of school, had just come from another country, or just did not understand the material on the previous days or in the previous years when it was presented. Common Core standards are not going to change any of this. As you said, they are standards and not a curriculum.

You also state that you know this "for a fact", but then go on to say that it is from personal experience and from friends and relatives' experiences. That does not sound like factual knowledge.

Anonymous wrote:

Making it easier for children to be able to move from one school or teacher to another without missing anything or being out of sync.

That is not currently a problem.

Yes it is a problem, and it's a big problem! Many schools teach various parts of the curriculum at different grade levels, for example switching around History classes, emphasis on particular aspects of grammar and other things - I know this for a fact, from personal knowledge as this was an issue I've seen from personal experience over the years from having moved, also I've seen it time and time again in comparing friends and relatives experiences with what grade certain things are taught at and some of their frustrations from having changed schools. Not to mention huge disparities in school quality.

The CC is dead.

RIP
Meant well, just did not understand students or education.

Zombies are real.

Anonymous wrote:
Fighting the testing of said standards is definitely not going to be a waste of time and resources. A HUGE amount of money and time are spent on those and, unless the feds fork over a bunch of money, they are not going to happen . . . which pretty much makes the "standards" useless as far as "figuring out where kids are", "comparing schools", "making it easier for students to move from one school to another", etc.

The CC is dead. The story is old. We need some truly new ideas.

If the Common Core is dead, why are you bothering to fight it?

Being able to know where you are at, being able to know how one school is doing as compared to another


How is Common Core going to help teachers know where they are?

If teachers need Common Core to know where they are, we are truly in a very bad place.

That would require everyone teaching the same thing, in the same time, and in the same way.

That would never work--that assumes all the kids are the same level.

Making it easier for children to be able to move from one school or teacher to another without missing anything or being out of sync.

Common Core does not do that. That would require everyone teaching the same thing, in the same time, and in the same way.