Anonymous
08/10/2023 11:05
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Reports are that Cal & Stanford are not getting a warm reception from ACC schools. No vote taken tonight. Requires 12 of 15 yes votes to get an offer to join the ACC according to one source.
Reports today are that there are 4 no votes and a lot of anger at ND for pushing them while refusing to join.
The report that I read stated "4 to 5" votes against; need 12 of 15 votes to generate an offer to join the ACC.
Anonymous
08/10/2023 10:57
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Reports are that Cal & Stanford are not getting a warm reception from ACC schools. No vote taken tonight. Requires 12 of 15 yes votes to get an offer to join the ACC according to one source.
Reports today are that there are 4 no votes and a lot of anger at ND for pushing them while refusing to join.
Anonymous
08/10/2023 10:54
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Text message among ACC members shared by Notre Dame's outgoing AD (athletic director) Jack Swarbrick:
"The notion that two of the very best academic institutions in the world who also play D-1 sports could be abandoned in the latest chapter of realignment is an indictment of college athletics."
"He's [ND AD Jack Swarbrick] absolutely right and that's absolutely fair, but it is not the ACC's job to clean up this mess."
"The notion that two of the very best academic institutions in the world who also play D-1 sports could be abandoned in the latest chapter of realignment is an indictment of college athletics."
"He's [ND AD Jack Swarbrick] absolutely right and that's absolutely fair, but it is not the ACC's job to clean up this mess."
Anonymous
08/10/2023 10:53
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
It looks like Fox is responsible for the death of the Pac 12. Oregon and Washington weren't going to be added until Fox upped their payment.
http://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1689272755756134400
If the Pac12 becomes the Pac2, I hope the remaining 2 use any remaining funds on attorneys. The Big12, Big10, and SEC may not be a monopoly, but the sure look like a cartel
http://twitter.com/RossDellenger/status/1689272755756134400
If the Pac12 becomes the Pac2, I hope the remaining 2 use any remaining funds on attorneys. The Big12, Big10, and SEC may not be a monopoly, but the sure look like a cartel
Anonymous
08/10/2023 10:41
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Great articles regarding Notre Dame's push to get Cal & Stanford into the ACC. Notre Dame's efforts are being met with some harsh backlash. Comments like who are they to insist we do this; Cal & Stanford add no revenue at a time when other ACC member schools are demanding more revenue; Notre Dame is to blame for the collapse of the Pac-12.
Some feel that Notre Dame is partly to blame for the collapse of the Pac-12 because Notre Dame insisted upon remaining independent when ND membership in the Pac-12 would have saved the conference. Assertions blame poor CFP eligibility guidelines which should have limited CFP eligibility to only "teams in a conference". This phrase would have forced Notre Dame to select a conference and if that conference had been the Pac-12, then no members would have left & the recent massive realignment would not have occurred.
Some feel that Notre Dame is partly to blame for the collapse of the Pac-12 because Notre Dame insisted upon remaining independent when ND membership in the Pac-12 would have saved the conference. Assertions blame poor CFP eligibility guidelines which should have limited CFP eligibility to only "teams in a conference". This phrase would have forced Notre Dame to select a conference and if that conference had been the Pac-12, then no members would have left & the recent massive realignment would not have occurred.
Anonymous
08/10/2023 05:23
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So what do I think is happening today ?
I think that Notre Dame understands the current and future landscape of big-time college football well. ND understands that the Big Ten Conference has taken several shrewd steps that will affect Notre Dame football.
To remain as an independent in college football, Notre Dame needs a CFP that gives ND a strong chance at making the 12 team playoff. Things are going to change in 2026 regarding the CFP and, as matters stand now, the Big Ten Conference and the SEC will control those changes to CFP eligibility. Notre Dame may want a strong ally in the ACC to counter the influence of the Big ten Conference and of the SEC. Notre Dame--even though independent--has a spot on the CFP committee.
This could be. ND could be saying we agree not to join anyone and stay ind. with our deal with you and play Cal and Stanford every year. One on our NBC revenue and one on your ESPN revenue. ND already agreed to play a number of ACC schools. Long history with BC, GTech, Miami. And for ND they would love to play Cal and Stanford in non-revenue sports. They have to travel regardless.
But they may also just join the ACC if all of this can be pulled off. Either now (less likley) or a couple of years from now.
Agree except with your final two sentences.
From Notre Dame's perspective, this is all about the CFP and controlling the changes to the CFP in 2025 & 2026. Notre Dame has a seat at the table as an independent, so why surrender that when you can make an ally ?
Okay, so how does ND screw the Big Ten Conference and help the ACC financially if Notre Dame does NOT become a full football member of the ACC ? Easy. ND schedules few to no regular season games against Big Ten opponents and schedules more games against the patsies of the ACC.
Notre Dame draws viewers nationwide & puts fans in stadium seats. This results in more money from broadcast partners.
So Notre Dame goes 11-0 against a bunch of second tier schools...that doesn't get them into the playoffs.
It probably would with a 12 team playoff. Personally, I wish the Big Ten would “screw” ND by not scheduling any games against them. The conference doesn’t need to be playing ND as an independent for their teams to get big payoffs. There are plenty of quality schools available to fill a future 2 game out of conference schedule. Those two games, since the conference will be even stronger, will more than likely be home games against those squads.
Understood. Both Notre Dame and Stanford arouse love/hate emotions as many view these two educational institutions as viewing themselves with an excess of self-love. Nonetheless, Notre Dame is a money-maker in the world of college football and Stanford is outstanding with respect to academics and research.
Anonymous
08/10/2023 05:19
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:And, it is not clear that Stanford athletics would be losing money if receiving above $24 million a year. Stanford is a private institution so Stanford does not need to make its financial records public.
When I look at the list that I put together quickly showing the US News rankings of roughly the top 100 D-1 football scholarship college programs, I better understand the accomplishments of Stanford & Cal and see the current situation with concern.
I hope that the Big Ten Conference makes an offer to Cal & Stanford, but the Big Ten Conference will do what it should to serve the best interests of its members long-term.
The Big Ten Conference is the best home for Cal & Stanford because it will soon include 4 former Pac-12 institutions in its region. This means less burdensome travel and more familiarity & better compatibility.
I have difficulty seeing the ACC as a solution to the current situations of Cal & Stanford. Too much exhausting cross country travel. The ACC does not have any members in the Western region of the US as does/will the Big Ten Conference.
Stop with the travel. A slight expense. It more expensive than say Colorado. And the travel is not that bad. Schedule is key.
The teams have raised this issue. Travel expenses would be substantial--in excess of $10 million per year. Even the current ACC members have raised concern about the additional travel costs to Stanford & Cal for athletic contests if those schools become ACC members.
The travel is horrendous for young scholar athletes.
Anonymous
08/10/2023 05:08
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:And, it is not clear that Stanford athletics would be losing money if receiving above $24 million a year. Stanford is a private institution so Stanford does not need to make its financial records public.
When I look at the list that I put together quickly showing the US News rankings of roughly the top 100 D-1 football scholarship college programs, I better understand the accomplishments of Stanford & Cal and see the current situation with concern.
I hope that the Big Ten Conference makes an offer to Cal & Stanford, but the Big Ten Conference will do what it should to serve the best interests of its members long-term.
The Big Ten Conference is the best home for Cal & Stanford because it will soon include 4 former Pac-12 institutions in its region. This means less burdensome travel and more familiarity & better compatibility.
I have difficulty seeing the ACC as a solution to the current situations of Cal & Stanford. Too much exhausting cross country travel. The ACC does not have any members in the Western region of the US as does/will the Big Ten Conference.
Stop with the travel. A slight expense. It more expensive than say Colorado. And the travel is not that bad. Schedule is key.
Anonymous
08/10/2023 05:05
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Stanford has the money to make an offer that the major conferences shouldn't be able to refuse. My suggestion remains: Stanford pick up the phone & make your best offer to the Big Ten as the ACC seems reluctant to offer even a 60% share. If you need advice, call SMU.
What do you mean Stanford has the money? What would they do? Offer it to the Big10?
No. Just means that Stanford can afford to subsidize its athletic teams if necessary. Stanford's athletic department can run at a deficit since the school has so much wealth. Of course, most endowment funds have restrictions regarding use, but Stanford can certainly absorb some amount of athletic department deficit. If not, then--like SMU--Stanford has wealthy alumni donors who might help.
When UCLA agreed to join the Big Ten Conference, UCLA's athletic department was running at a deficit = losing money.
This would be ok in theory but is unlikely. Stanford just cut a bunch of sports to make budget and then reluctantly added them back after alums complained.
And the alum base gives money but not for sports unlike smu.
Anonymous
08/10/2023 05:02
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:So what do I think is happening today ?
I think that Notre Dame understands the current and future landscape of big-time college football well. ND understands that the Big Ten Conference has taken several shrewd steps that will affect Notre Dame football.
To remain as an independent in college football, Notre Dame needs a CFP that gives ND a strong chance at making the 12 team playoff. Things are going to change in 2026 regarding the CFP and, as matters stand now, the Big Ten Conference and the SEC will control those changes to CFP eligibility. Notre Dame may want a strong ally in the ACC to counter the influence of the Big ten Conference and of the SEC. Notre Dame--even though independent--has a spot on the CFP committee.
This could be. ND could be saying we agree not to join anyone and stay ind. with our deal with you and play Cal and Stanford every year. One on our NBC revenue and one on your ESPN revenue. ND already agreed to play a number of ACC schools. Long history with BC, GTech, Miami. And for ND they would love to play Cal and Stanford in non-revenue sports. They have to travel regardless.
But they may also just join the ACC if all of this can be pulled off. Either now (less likley) or a couple of years from now.
Agree except with your final two sentences.
From Notre Dame's perspective, this is all about the CFP and controlling the changes to the CFP in 2025 & 2026. Notre Dame has a seat at the table as an independent, so why surrender that when you can make an ally ?
Okay, so how does ND screw the Big Ten Conference and help the ACC financially if Notre Dame does NOT become a full football member of the ACC ? Easy. ND schedules few to no regular season games against Big Ten opponents and schedules more games against the patsies of the ACC.
Notre Dame draws viewers nationwide & puts fans in stadium seats. This results in more money from broadcast partners.
So Notre Dame goes 11-0 against a bunch of second tier schools...that doesn't get them into the playoffs.
It probably would with a 12 team playoff. Personally, I wish the Big Ten would “screw” ND by not scheduling any games against them. The conference doesn’t need to be playing ND as an independent for their teams to get big payoffs. There are plenty of quality schools available to fill a future 2 game out of conference schedule. Those two games, since the conference will be even stronger, will more than likely be home games against those squads.
Anonymous
08/10/2023 05:00
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
In my opinion, Stanford University needs to approach the current situation with a humble, realistic attitude. Stanford is a seller in a buyers market. The ACC is not a realistic, long-term solution; the ACC is not even a realistic short-term solution. Stanford athletics are fighting for survival.
The two realistic potential buyers are the Big Ten Conference and the Big 12 Conference. But, at least in the near future, Stanford athletics would not be a profitable investment for either conference. Stanford needs to accept this fact and do what it can to make Stanford athletics at least a revenue neutral addition to either conference. (With respect to joining the ACC, Stanford has an even steeper mountain to climb as it must be a revenue positive member from its first year of membership in order to receive an offer.)
The two realistic potential buyers are the Big Ten Conference and the Big 12 Conference. But, at least in the near future, Stanford athletics would not be a profitable investment for either conference. Stanford needs to accept this fact and do what it can to make Stanford athletics at least a revenue neutral addition to either conference. (With respect to joining the ACC, Stanford has an even steeper mountain to climb as it must be a revenue positive member from its first year of membership in order to receive an offer.)
Anonymous
08/10/2023 04:49
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Solid ESPN piece about the status of Cal & Stanford to ACC:
https://espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/38164566/sources-cal-stanford-acc-hits-significant-roadblocks
https://espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/38164566/sources-cal-stanford-acc-hits-significant-roadblocks
Anonymous
08/10/2023 04:37
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
And, it is not clear that Stanford athletics would be losing money if receiving above $24 million a year. Stanford is a private institution so Stanford does not need to make its financial records public.
When I look at the list that I put together quickly showing the US News rankings of roughly the top 100 D-1 football scholarship college programs, I better understand the accomplishments of Stanford & Cal and see the current situation with concern.
I hope that the Big Ten Conference makes an offer to Cal & Stanford, but the Big Ten Conference will do what it should to serve the best interests of its members long-term.
The Big Ten Conference is the best home for Cal & Stanford because it will soon include 4 former Pac-12 institutions in its region. This means less burdensome travel and more familiarity & better compatibility.
I have difficulty seeing the ACC as a solution to the current situations of Cal & Stanford. Too much exhausting cross country travel. The ACC does not have any members in the Western region of the US as does/will the Big Ten Conference.
When I look at the list that I put together quickly showing the US News rankings of roughly the top 100 D-1 football scholarship college programs, I better understand the accomplishments of Stanford & Cal and see the current situation with concern.
I hope that the Big Ten Conference makes an offer to Cal & Stanford, but the Big Ten Conference will do what it should to serve the best interests of its members long-term.
The Big Ten Conference is the best home for Cal & Stanford because it will soon include 4 former Pac-12 institutions in its region. This means less burdensome travel and more familiarity & better compatibility.
I have difficulty seeing the ACC as a solution to the current situations of Cal & Stanford. Too much exhausting cross country travel. The ACC does not have any members in the Western region of the US as does/will the Big Ten Conference.
Anonymous
08/10/2023 04:22
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Stanford has the money to make an offer that the major conferences shouldn't be able to refuse. My suggestion remains: Stanford pick up the phone & make your best offer to the Big Ten as the ACC seems reluctant to offer even a 60% share. If you need advice, call SMU.
What do you mean Stanford has the money? What would they do? Offer it to the Big10?
No. Just means that Stanford can afford to subsidize its athletic teams if necessary. Stanford's athletic department can run at a deficit since the school has so much wealth. Of course, most endowment funds have restrictions regarding use, but Stanford can certainly absorb some amount of athletic department deficit. If not, then--like SMU--Stanford has wealthy alumni donors who might help.
When UCLA agreed to join the Big Ten Conference, UCLA's athletic department was running at a deficit = losing money.
Anonymous
08/10/2023 01:28
Subject: Re:College Football--Big Ten Expansion
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:(OP here)
Very low chance that Stanford would join the ACC for any sport other than football.
Of all the outcomes --- this is the one that can't happen. It's all or none or no football but all others. The school presidents want stanford ---- they want them for all the non-football sports.
Why? Do you really think the president of UVA relishes his lacrosses teams having to travel to California? It's a massive added expense across all of the non-revenue sports
Do those schools play lacrosse?