Anonymous
07/27/2021 13:22
Subject: Re:Elaine Tholen's recall is goin to court
I don’t know about Fox Mill specifically, but in general, immersion classes in the upper elementary grades tend to be smaller than their gen ed counterparts at the same school. Kids move/drop out of immersion for aap or other reasons and are not replaced. Immersion is a luxury and should be eliminated, but when it was on the chopping block during the recession, immersion parents lobbied hard to keep it.
We are at Fox Mill and this is the case. As kids leave JI, they are not replaced so the class size drops. DS started with 31 kids in each of the first grade classes for JI and I think they are down to 24 in each of the JI classes for his grade level. I think the Gen Ed classes are still smaller then his JI class but not by much. That said, the Gen Ed classes start off a good deal smaller and the JI classes are full. I can see how there would only be 3 classes per grade at the school without JI because of the number of students once you remove the out of boundary students.
Fox Mill is also adding Local Level IV next year so there should be fewer kids leaving the school for AAP. I don't think that there are that many kids who leave JI from the Japanese program but that is just hearsay from parents. I know one from DS class who left. The JI kids are going to be able to participate in Local Level IV, although I am not sure how that will work.
I am not savy on how the School Board makes the language immersion programs work but I know that we very much appreciate the option at Fox Mill, it has been great for our kid.
Anonymous
07/27/2021 13:06
Subject: Elaine Tholen's recall is goin to court
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think that is the best likelihood - members choosing not to run again. I really do not know if Tholen is subpar or not. I know some people hate her., based on reading here I'm a Herndon parent. No one I know is talking about her one way or the other. Some overall irritation or not over the opening of schools, but no one is naming her as the issue.
+100
The SB members I hear the most about are the three mentioned in the other post - Omeish, Frisch, and Cohen. The worst of the worst.
Tholen is worse than Cohen.
I disagree.
It’s not a coincidence that Tholen was the first to get enough signatures to trigger a potential recall. Do you really think no one in Herndon had anything to do with that?
I have no idea what people think but without researching budgets, staffing, and facilities it's difficult to comment on any of the board members. FCPS really had nowhere to immediately put Shouse Village and other Route 7 mega islands other than Langley. Oddly the most logical place for Shouse is Madison-you don't even have to drive on Route 7, the Beltway, or go through Tysons to get there. Long term the just north of Tysons Spring Hill residences should have been moved to Langley.
Title 1 schools in Herndon should get their fair share of existing budget $ allocated in program budgets and they do not. Hunters Woods and Baileys magnet $ plus the extra $ for non-dual immersion and any IB. Under Brabrand the non-dual immersion went up to a standard allocation of an extra 3 for accommodating low class sizes at even high SES schools. So in Tholen's district a student that is ELS+farms could have a higher pupil:teacher ratio than an immersion student. That program should run under regular ratios and if attrition is a problem program sites should be consolidated [see Floris and Fox Mill].
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BVYNFM5F5A65/$file/Staffing%20Standards%20from%20FY%202021%20Approved%20Budget%20Appendix.pdf
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/goto?open&id=BVHNKJ6037A6
Fritsch? Blake Lane Park appeared as the site after the 2017 planning money bond and FCPS did not analyze the Fairfax City movement of AAP nor the existing open capacity along the entire Hunter Mill Road corridor from Forest Edge down to Oakton. Even Palchik and Gerry Connolly were against building on Blake Lane Park. Fritsch's real problem with nowhere to put people was Shrevewood.
Why exactly is Fox Mill being brought into this? Looking at the yearbook there are some smaller Gen Ed classes but the overall total number of kids per class follows the class size guidelines. The JI classes tend to be larger then the Gen Ed classes so I don't think it has much to do with the JI program.
I don’t know about Fox Mill specifically, but in general, immersion classes in the upper elementary grades tend to be smaller than their gen ed counterparts at the same school. Kids move/drop out of immersion for aap or other reasons and are not replaced. Immersion is a luxury and should be eliminated, but when it was on the chopping block during the recession, immersion parents lobbied hard to keep it.
Anonymous
07/27/2021 12:43
Subject: Re:Elaine Tholen's recall is goin to court
Here, as in other areas, McLaughlin is an exception, as she’s actually monitored enrollments at schools in her district carefully, pushed for certain schools to be identified as candidates for boundary adjustments, and then had the willingness to pull schools off the list for boundary adjustments when more recent information indicated enrollment growth was lower than projected (and then explain and defend her position publicly).
Anonymous
07/27/2021 12:33
Subject: Re:Elaine Tholen's recall is goin to court
And I think PP’s overall point is that facilities planning in FCPS is really bad, which is true (and recent school boards are so obsessed with things like changing school names and TJ admissions policy that they pay next to no attention to it).
Another example is their minimal review of the annual Capital Improvement Program, a staff-prepared document that sets forth FCPS’s plans with respect to buildings and boundaries. The School Board typically holds one work session on the CIP, asks a lot of questions that are then either ignored or brushed off by staff, and then goes on to its next great thing.
It’s in this environment that someone like Frisch gets to prioritize saving a dog park in Oakton over relieving overcrowding at Shrevewood, or Tholen gets to pull a last-minute stunt on the Langley/McLean boundary adjustment comfortable that the other members will rubber-stamp their preferences.
Another example is their minimal review of the annual Capital Improvement Program, a staff-prepared document that sets forth FCPS’s plans with respect to buildings and boundaries. The School Board typically holds one work session on the CIP, asks a lot of questions that are then either ignored or brushed off by staff, and then goes on to its next great thing.
It’s in this environment that someone like Frisch gets to prioritize saving a dog park in Oakton over relieving overcrowding at Shrevewood, or Tholen gets to pull a last-minute stunt on the Langley/McLean boundary adjustment comfortable that the other members will rubber-stamp their preferences.
Anonymous
07/27/2021 12:25
Subject: Elaine Tholen's recall is goin to court
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think that is the best likelihood - members choosing not to run again. I really do not know if Tholen is subpar or not. I know some people hate her., based on reading here I'm a Herndon parent. No one I know is talking about her one way or the other. Some overall irritation or not over the opening of schools, but no one is naming her as the issue.
+100
The SB members I hear the most about are the three mentioned in the other post - Omeish, Frisch, and Cohen. The worst of the worst.
Tholen is worse than Cohen.
I disagree.
It’s not a coincidence that Tholen was the first to get enough signatures to trigger a potential recall. Do you really think no one in Herndon had anything to do with that?
I have no idea what people think but without researching budgets, staffing, and facilities it's difficult to comment on any of the board members. FCPS really had nowhere to immediately put Shouse Village and other Route 7 mega islands other than Langley. Oddly the most logical place for Shouse is Madison-you don't even have to drive on Route 7, the Beltway, or go through Tysons to get there. Long term the just north of Tysons Spring Hill residences should have been moved to Langley.
Title 1 schools in Herndon should get their fair share of existing budget $ allocated in program budgets and they do not. Hunters Woods and Baileys magnet $ plus the extra $ for non-dual immersion and any IB. Under Brabrand the non-dual immersion went up to a standard allocation of an extra 3 for accommodating low class sizes at even high SES schools. So in Tholen's district a student that is ELS+farms could have a higher pupil:teacher ratio than an immersion student. That program should run under regular ratios and if attrition is a problem program sites should be consolidated [see Floris and Fox Mill].
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BVYNFM5F5A65/$file/Staffing%20Standards%20from%20FY%202021%20Approved%20Budget%20Appendix.pdf
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/goto?open&id=BVHNKJ6037A6
Fritsch? Blake Lane Park appeared as the site after the 2017 planning money bond and FCPS did not analyze the Fairfax City movement of AAP nor the existing open capacity along the entire Hunter Mill Road corridor from Forest Edge down to Oakton. Even Palchik and Gerry Connolly were against building on Blake Lane Park. Fritsch's real problem with nowhere to put people was Shrevewood.
Why exactly is Fox Mill being brought into this? Looking at the yearbook there are some smaller Gen Ed classes but the overall total number of kids per class follows the class size guidelines. The JI classes tend to be larger then the Gen Ed classes so I don't think it has much to do with the JI program.
DP, but there really isn’t much of a correlation between whether a school is over or under capacity and individual class sizes.
Anonymous
07/27/2021 12:22
Subject: Elaine Tholen's recall is goin to court
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think that is the best likelihood - members choosing not to run again. I really do not know if Tholen is subpar or not. I know some people hate her., based on reading here I'm a Herndon parent. No one I know is talking about her one way or the other. Some overall irritation or not over the opening of schools, but no one is naming her as the issue.
+100
The SB members I hear the most about are the three mentioned in the other post - Omeish, Frisch, and Cohen. The worst of the worst.
Tholen is worse than Cohen.
I disagree.
It’s not a coincidence that Tholen was the first to get enough signatures to trigger a potential recall. Do you really think no one in Herndon had anything to do with that?
I have no idea what people think but without researching budgets, staffing, and facilities it's difficult to comment on any of the board members. FCPS really had nowhere to immediately put Shouse Village and other Route 7 mega islands other than Langley. Oddly the most logical place for Shouse is Madison-you don't even have to drive on Route 7, the Beltway, or go through Tysons to get there. Long term the just north of Tysons Spring Hill residences should have been moved to Langley.
Title 1 schools in Herndon should get their fair share of existing budget $ allocated in program budgets and they do not. Hunters Woods and Baileys magnet $ plus the extra $ for non-dual immersion and any IB. Under Brabrand the non-dual immersion went up to a standard allocation of an extra 3 for accommodating low class sizes at even high SES schools. So in Tholen's district a student that is ELS+farms could have a higher pupil:teacher ratio than an immersion student. That program should run under regular ratios and if attrition is a problem program sites should be consolidated [see Floris and Fox Mill].
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BVYNFM5F5A65/$file/Staffing%20Standards%20from%20FY%202021%20Approved%20Budget%20Appendix.pdf
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/goto?open&id=BVHNKJ6037A6
Fritsch? Blake Lane Park appeared as the site after the 2017 planning money bond and FCPS did not analyze the Fairfax City movement of AAP nor the existing open capacity along the entire Hunter Mill Road corridor from Forest Edge down to Oakton. Even Palchik and Gerry Connolly were against building on Blake Lane Park. Fritsch's real problem with nowhere to put people was Shrevewood.
Why exactly is Fox Mill being brought into this? Looking at the yearbook there are some smaller Gen Ed classes but the overall total number of kids per class follows the class size guidelines. The JI classes tend to be larger then the Gen Ed classes so I don't think it has much to do with the JI program.
Anonymous
07/27/2021 11:54
Subject: Re:Elaine Tholen's recall is goin to court
The sooner she is replaced the better.
Anonymous
07/27/2021 11:20
Subject: Elaine Tholen's recall is goin to court
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think that is the best likelihood - members choosing not to run again. I really do not know if Tholen is subpar or not. I know some people hate her., based on reading here I'm a Herndon parent. No one I know is talking about her one way or the other. Some overall irritation or not over the opening of schools, but no one is naming her as the issue.
+100
The SB members I hear the most about are the three mentioned in the other post - Omeish, Frisch, and Cohen. The worst of the worst.
Tholen is worse than Cohen.
I disagree.
It’s not a coincidence that Tholen was the first to get enough signatures to trigger a potential recall. Do you really think no one in Herndon had anything to do with that?
I have no idea what people think but without researching budgets, staffing, and facilities it's difficult to comment on any of the board members. FCPS really had nowhere to immediately put Shouse Village and other Route 7 mega islands other than Langley. Oddly the most logical place for Shouse is Madison-you don't even have to drive on Route 7, the Beltway, or go through Tysons to get there. Long term the just north of Tysons Spring Hill residences should have been moved to Langley.
Title 1 schools in Herndon should get their fair share of existing budget $ allocated in program budgets and they do not. Hunters Woods and Baileys magnet $ plus the extra $ for non-dual immersion and any IB. Under Brabrand the non-dual immersion went up to a standard allocation of an extra 3 for accommodating low class sizes at even high SES schools. So in Tholen's district a student that is ELS+farms could have a higher pupil:teacher ratio than an immersion student. That program should run under regular ratios and if attrition is a problem program sites should be consolidated [see Floris and Fox Mill].
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/BVYNFM5F5A65/$file/Staffing%20Standards%20from%20FY%202021%20Approved%20Budget%20Appendix.pdf
https://go.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/goto?open&id=BVHNKJ6037A6
Fritsch? Blake Lane Park appeared as the site after the 2017 planning money bond and FCPS did not analyze the Fairfax City movement of AAP nor the existing open capacity along the entire Hunter Mill Road corridor from Forest Edge down to Oakton. Even Palchik and Gerry Connolly were against building on Blake Lane Park. Fritsch's real problem with nowhere to put people was Shrevewood.
Anonymous
07/26/2021 17:53
Subject: Elaine Tholen's recall is goin to court
Great news!!!!so cheerful!! I almost wanted to move out of this county but decided to stay and fight together.
Anonymous
07/26/2021 15:53
Subject: Elaine Tholen's recall is goin to court
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Point made. I hope you are all doing the real work, as well. Have you identified a slate of alternative, electable candidates for the full school board the next election? A group of candidates that focuses on families and children first? Have you made FOIA requests that follow the money - found out who made money off keeping the schools closed? Or are you just tilting at windmills?
It will be interesting to see if some of the groups that claim to be non-partisan will identify slates of candidates to run in 2023. I could see a group that runs as a slate and pledges to stay focused on keeping kids in school and operating FCPS efficiently, without getting bogged down in the types of pet projects current members favor (like Frisch's dog park rescue mission), mounting a serious challenge to the Democratic machine.
that all sounds good until they have to talk about what they do support and it turns out that people have vastly different ideas of what running a system well means
Anonymous
07/26/2021 15:50
Subject: Elaine Tholen's recall is goin to court
Anonymous wrote:Point made. I hope you are all doing the real work, as well. Have you identified a slate of alternative, electable candidates for the full school board the next election? A group of candidates that focuses on families and children first? Have you made FOIA requests that follow the money - found out who made money off keeping the schools closed? Or are you just tilting at windmills?
It will be interesting to see if some of the groups that claim to be non-partisan will identify slates of candidates to run in 2023. I could see a group that runs as a slate and pledges to stay focused on keeping kids in school and operating FCPS efficiently, without getting bogged down in the types of pet projects current members favor (like Frisch's dog park rescue mission), mounting a serious challenge to the Democratic machine.
Anonymous
07/26/2021 15:35
Subject: Elaine Tholen's recall is goin to court
Anonymous wrote:Point made. I hope you are all doing the real work, as well. Have you identified a slate of alternative, electable candidates for the full school board the next election? A group of candidates that focuses on families and children first? Have you made FOIA requests that follow the money - found out who made money off keeping the schools closed? Or are you just tilting at windmills?
Followed the money? I can’t think of any industry that would have made money out of keeping kids out of school.
Anonymous
07/26/2021 14:58
Subject: Elaine Tholen's recall is goin to court
Point made. I hope you are all doing the real work, as well. Have you identified a slate of alternative, electable candidates for the full school board the next election? A group of candidates that focuses on families and children first? Have you made FOIA requests that follow the money - found out who made money off keeping the schools closed? Or are you just tilting at windmills?
Anonymous
07/26/2021 13:47
Subject: Elaine Tholen's recall is goin to court
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think that is the best likelihood - members choosing not to run again. I really do not know if Tholen is subpar or not. I know some people hate her., based on reading here I'm a Herndon parent. No one I know is talking about her one way or the other. Some overall irritation or not over the opening of schools, but no one is naming her as the issue.
+100
The SB members I hear the most about are the three mentioned in the other post - Omeish, Frisch, and Cohen. The worst of the worst.
Tholen is worse than Cohen.
I disagree.
It’s not a coincidence that Tholen was the first to get enough signatures to trigger a potential recall. Do you really think no one in Herndon had anything to do with that?
I think the vast majority of signatures (including mine) came from McLean and Great Falls. Herndon seems completely ambivalent about Tholen.
Anonymous
07/25/2021 23:31
Subject: Elaine Tholen's recall is goin to court
Anonymous wrote:I am confused why openfcps folks think they won a court victory when it was just a procedural, not a substantive, hearing.
I am confused why you would suggest Tholen wouldn’t challenge the recall on both procedural and substantive grounds if she could.