Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know that this has to be gendered. I have all boys and while I just hope they find love and a successful partnership when they are adults, there is no doubt that marrying someone from a well off family will make life easier and marriage less stressful. I do hope they marry rich or umc if I’m being completely honest.

It doesn't always. I come from an UMC background, whose parents came from nothing and built an impressive life for their family. I married a guy whose parents came from money, then turned that money into lots more money. They do not impress me in the least. But boy does the lopsidedness in our wealth make me miserable. Other than loving my kids more than I could imagine, if I had to do it over, I would not marry someone with so much more wealth than me again. I actually resent him greatly and I really really hate his family. It's awful.

This is odd and says more about you than them.

But I never told you why I hate them. I supposed I could have been more clear. Because he is rich, and his family is rich, I have been made to feel like I do not matter. fpr decades now. He has told my children countless times that my work and my my salary are meaningless (I do make 6 figures and provide our family's health insurance, because he doesn't work). My MIL has treated me absolutely horribly. I can't even write here what she's done for fear I will out myself. Nope, nothing odd about my post and in fact, my original post was only meant to convey that marrying wealthy does not insure happiness.

I mean, don’t marry for money in lieu of everything else. I don’t think most people are advocating for women to marry jerks, as you did.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Feminism is about empowering women to do what they want. Not just to get high paying jobs. If a woman wants to stay home -- that is feminism. And other women should not be making comments about it.

Agreed. But this forum is filled with women that did that and did not expect to end up divorced or with a cheating spouse in their late 40s/50s after never having been in the workforce. Alimony is minimal and kids are older so child support won't be there when they are 18.

I think people advocate for some form of employment (even part-time, minimal) to keep one's foot in the door so they have options and aren't stuck in marriages or abusive relationships solely because they can't afford to divorce and live w/out their spouse's salary.

Honestly, one reason I have continued to work at least part time and to maintain career contacts is that I fear my partner dying or getting so sick he can't work). His father got cancer twice (two different types), and the second time it killed him. We both have parents who have dealt with longterm medical issues that started in their 50s and lasted the rest of their lives. I could never be comfortable just 100% relying on my spouse for money because anything could happen, and not only do I need to worry about me, I have to worry about our kids.

That said, I still think it's a choice people can make on their own and I think the often angry and judgmental response to SAHMs on this forum is really more about internalized sexism that devalues care work than it's about making sure women are making smart financial choices. You see the same negative attitude about it when a woman has the resources to not have to worry (for instance she has family money or tons of savings from her own career). It's because a lot of women confuse feminism with women doing what men do. It would be awesome if there were more focus on getting men to do more of the care work and housework that all women (SAHMs and WOHMs alike) generally do far more of than their male counterparts. We can't solve gender inequality by just helping the most privileged women gain access to jobs historically dominated by men. That's such a limited and privileged way of thinking about the problem.

Anonymous wrote:So many people responding defensively because while they may have married for love, they also married folks who were ambitious, hard-working, etc and don’t mention that they first knew that through proxies like educational background or employment. So you were looking for markers of financial success. And don’t mention the people you dated, the point is you made a choice to marry someone likely to be financially successful. It’s completely delusional to pretend you didn’t screen for proxies of wealth.

Also ridiculous that everyone thinks their success is due to their own hard work, not the opportunities they had that were about the family they were born into.

I work FT and make $200K, married to a big law partner, and would absolutely tell my three girls to care about the potential earning power of their future partners. Because women, even women like me who went to better school and have better pedigrees and initially out earned their partners, have their careers and earning power suffer when they have children. If that is likely going to happen, you should at least marry someone who can make the kind of $$ you would have made without kids.

Neither my DH nor I make anything close to what you and your spouse do, and I have a similar mindset. It's not that I would encourage my daughter to "marry rich". But I would absolutely encourage her to to think critically about finances as she contemplates marriage with someone, especially if they want kids. My parents didn't prepare me for this at all and we had to scramble a bit when we had kids because my DH is not and will never be a really high earner (he has a technical career in government and there is no private sector equivalent so his income is pretty capped). I worked in the private sector and always out earned him. None of this was a problem until we had a kid and I realized what it was like to be the partner who had to do pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, and be "the mom". I had egalitarian ideals but the reality of actually having kids forced me to realize that you can't split everything down the middle and there are some things your husband cannot do. Plus I learned that I really loved being a mom and didn't want to be the primary breadwinner -- getting to spend time with my kid was like a reward for going through the challenges of pregnancy and childbirth, and if my husband was the SAHP or primary parent, it made me feel like I was just a baby making machine.

I didn't get any of this before having kids and we struggled for a bit financially when we made the collective decision for me to step back at work a bit so that I could enjoy motherhood more. I would not have made a different choice in husband if I'd known before, but I would have arranged my life a bit differently, and I think my DH and I might have made some different choices before we had kids in terms of where we live, in particular. I don't want my daughter to be blindsided by these realities.

FWIW, I would not have any problem outing a MIL as horrible as yours, PP!

Anonymous wrote:Feminism is about empowering women to do what they want. Not just to get high paying jobs. If a woman wants to stay home -- that is feminism. And other women should not be making comments about it.

You cannot possibly believe that. Most women I know who stay home are setting women back decades.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know that this has to be gendered. I have all boys and while I just hope they find love and a successful partnership when they are adults, there is no doubt that marrying someone from a well off family will make life easier and marriage less stressful. I do hope they marry rich or umc if I’m being completely honest.

It doesn't always. I come from an UMC background, whose parents came from nothing and built an impressive life for their family. I married a guy whose parents came from money, then turned that money into lots more money. They do not impress me in the least. But boy does the lopsidedness in our wealth make me miserable. Other than loving my kids more than I could imagine, if I had to do it over, I would not marry someone with so much more wealth than me again. I actually resent him greatly and I really really hate his family. It's awful.

This is odd and says more about you than them.

But I never told you why I hate them. I supposed I could have been more clear. Because he is rich, and his family is rich, I have been made to feel like I do not matter. fpr decades now. He has told my children countless times that my work and my my salary are meaningless (I do make 6 figures and provide our family's health insurance, because he doesn't work). My MIL has treated me absolutely horribly. I can't even write here what she's done for fear I will out myself. Nope, nothing odd about my post and in fact, my original post was only meant to convey that marrying wealthy does not insure happiness.

Anonymous wrote:Feminism is about empowering women to do what they want. Not just to get high paying jobs. If a woman wants to stay home -- that is feminism. And other women should not be making comments about it.

Agreed. But this forum is filled with women that did that and did not expect to end up divorced or with a cheating spouse in their late 40s/50s after never having been in the workforce. Alimony is minimal and kids are older so child support won't be there when they are 18.

I think people advocate for some form of employment (even part-time, minimal) to keep one's foot in the door so they have options and aren't stuck in marriages or abusive relationships solely because they can't afford to divorce and live w/out their spouse's salary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know that this has to be gendered. I have all boys and while I just hope they find love and a successful partnership when they are adults, there is no doubt that marrying someone from a well off family will make life easier and marriage less stressful. I do hope they marry rich or umc if I’m being completely honest.

I didn’t marry someone (dated for 2 years) from a well off family because I didn’t want that drama. I am wealthy, very easy going and married someone that is smart and drop dead gorgeous. She made really good money for her age, she didn’t finish college because she was in hospital for her whole junior year and needed to work to pay medical bills, came from a very poor family. Now she is a SAHM, great person, still smart and gorgeous.

The idea that a well off family is less stressful is naive.

possible. But the idea that more money than less is better is not.

Im the pp that said it doesn’t have to be gendered. I’m still not convinced that marrying umc is not easier. There are horrible poor families and horrible wealthy families. Obviously, you’d want to avoid both. If all things are equal, though, a bit of family money is helpful and a higher income partner is also helpful. I’m not saying love and a happy marriage are impossible without but I do think it’s naive to think that money does not solve problems. If you don’t have to argue over money, can outsource some cleaning/cooking if you want to, can go on nice relaxing vacations you can better navigate a lot of issues that arise in a marriage. You can buy a home you love. You can send your kids to a good school.

Anonymous wrote:For most college-educated people, doesn't this work itself out? Your pool of partners who you are naturally exposed to are other college-educated people. If you're a high energy person, you find other high energy people. I was never attracted to the guys who sat around their mother's basements or never wanted to go anywhere or do anything or who were generally under achieving. Were any of you?

I never gave a thought to whether my husband was rich, would be rich, etc. We were pretty young when we met.

I do, however, think people are naive about how much harder life is worrying about money all the time.

You can’t just filter for high energy or whatever. My DH had a STEM from an Ivy, and we married in grad school, but he was idealistic and wanted to do “meaningful” work (think environmental startups, educational technology, climate tech) and the only people who make money from they are founders (and DH is smart and works hard but is not hard nosed and ruthless enough for business).

You need to get someone who is focus on the money, and is a bit hard edged to elbow their way up the ladder. I wish I had; I thought DH was nice and we would be comfortable on his technical salary, but costs have far outstripped his earnings.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Women like OP are happier when they work out of the home, IME. They may be stressed, but there are stressors both in and out of the home, so same difference.

Some less motivated and/or anxiety stricken women are led to believe that there are additional stressors from working outside of the home - but any of that is superseded by a true sense of purpose and usefulness, and their own paycheck (pride) - and less time to take part in self destructive behaviors, such as wallowing (OP) and gossiping (PTA moms).

OP, you have too much time on your hands.

I have always worked. My parents raised all of us to always be self-sufficient and never rely 100% on anyone else, always keep a foot in the workplace.

I did not purposely seek a 'rich man'. I dated a few guys in my 20s that certainly were not on track to ever have a lucrative job, one was a drop-out bartender from my HS. But, I always was attracted to innately smart and witty people. I was self-motivated. I met my spouse when we were 26 and I ostensibly made more $. He was brilliant and good-looking with a degree from a top university and very ambitious--as well as hilarious, fit, etc. Within 2 years of meeting him, he left his job (right before our wedding!!) and went out on his own and that hit the payday big time. Even though he has always made a lot of $$, 23 years later I am still working making a good salary. My career had flexibility for our kids (WAH since they were born) and after years of travel and round the clock work, spouse was able to never travel again for work when we decided to have kids 7 years into marriage.

A lot of people that are wealthy later in life did not come from $ or have it when they met. That was certainly us and frankly I never could have imagined the lifestyle I now have.

Top university and started his own company in his 20s; he comes from an UMC family right?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I NT don’t think you missed the memo. You have to fit in with that crowd to begin with. They must likely know each other or are friends of friends through private school and frats and vacationing in the same places. It’s not like Jordyn from po dunk western PA is going to fit in with the hedge fund crowd that grew up in Darien.

if Jordyn goes to Swathmore or Amherst and makes friends and then moves to NYC or Boston or San Francisco, they will. Likewise, the UMC kid going to Rye Country day who flunks out of some random SEC school isn't going to be doing much mingling with young professionals for long unless his parents underwrite his existence

Haha. No. Because she you can date and F rich guys, but once he goes and visit her folks some Thanksgiving, and imagines the wedding reception, the long game is over.

You are so off. Troll?

If the guy is rich and the girl upwardly mobile, they’ll put together their own wedding reception. Fact is, girls from “po dunk” who got out of po dunk tend to be more interesting, more ambitious, more driven, more accomplished, and—often because po dunk tends to value looks above all else, whereas Wellesley and similar value smarts and even can look down on attractive women—prettier.

There are tons of accomplished girls from po dunk up here who married “well.” They moved into a new crowd in college and grad school, and before you know it, they were just a prettier, more interesting version of the other fancy-college grads. You must not mingle much in this town, or you’d see that. A lot.

Oh sure, good looks can help snag a man and overcome FOO. I was talking about all things being equal. It’s like some people get to be famous actors.

Feminism is about empowering women to do what they want. Not just to get high paying jobs. If a woman wants to stay home -- that is feminism. And other women should not be making comments about it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know that this has to be gendered. I have all boys and while I just hope they find love and a successful partnership when they are adults, there is no doubt that marrying someone from a well off family will make life easier and marriage less stressful. I do hope they marry rich or umc if I’m being completely honest.

I didn’t marry someone (dated for 2 years) from a well off family because I didn’t want that drama. I am wealthy, very easy going and married someone that is smart and drop dead gorgeous. She made really good money for her age, she didn’t finish college because she was in hospital for her whole junior year and needed to work to pay medical bills, came from a very poor family. Now she is a SAHM, great person, still smart and gorgeous.

The idea that a well off family is less stressful is naive.

possible. But the idea that more money than less is better is not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know that this has to be gendered. I have all boys and while I just hope they find love and a successful partnership when they are adults, there is no doubt that marrying someone from a well off family will make life easier and marriage less stressful. I do hope they marry rich or umc if I’m being completely honest.

It doesn't always. I come from an UMC background, whose parents came from nothing and built an impressive life for their family. I married a guy whose parents came from money, then turned that money into lots more money. They do not impress me in the least. But boy does the lopsidedness in our wealth make me miserable. Other than loving my kids more than I could imagine, if I had to do it over, I would not marry someone with so much more wealth than me again. I actually resent him greatly and I really really hate his family. It's awful.

This is odd and says more about you than them.

For most college-educated people, doesn't this work itself out? Your pool of partners who you are naturally exposed to are other college-educated people. If you're a high energy person, you find other high energy people. I was never attracted to the guys who sat around their mother's basements or never wanted to go anywhere or do anything or who were generally under achieving. Were any of you?

I never gave a thought to whether my husband was rich, would be rich, etc. We were pretty young when we met.

I do, however, think people are naive about how much harder life is worrying about money all the time.