Anonymous wrote:My mother volunteered with a Head Start program teaching 4 year olds. However she had to stop last year due to the pandemic.

My mother volunteered with a Head Start program teaching 4 year olds. However she had to stop last year due to the pandemic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in a similar situation as OP in that there does not appear to be a real chance for grandchildren from my two kids. One is gay and has expressed a desire to be childfree when married; the other is profoundly disabled. It saddens me because DH and I would have loved to be involved grandparents. It doesn’t mean there aren’t meaningful and enjoyable activities to fill our days but the loss is still a loss.

It’s not a loss when it never existed.

Sure it is. People mourn that they cannot have children.

But it’s not a loss per se.

Yes, it is a loss.
In this thread, the issue is
an actual loss of family, which is made clear, so your argument is irrelevant here.

But, women who cannot have children are experiencing a loss of having children. That is a loss.
Let's look at your suggestion outside
of this paradigm:
1. Women also lose opportunities in the workplace to men, hindering their career, as well as equal pay. Are you suggesting that they didn't lose something?
2. We see people living in poverty. If they've never had opportunity or money, is it not a loss because they never had these resources?

Your argument makes little sense regarding of whatever context you put it in.

So anything you cannot have in life is a loss as opposed to losing something you actually had? So a 1m salary, 5m in the lottery, becoming the president, I can mourn all of these? And before you say any of this is ridiculous, who are you to determine that?

What you are missing, and cannot have, nor will have, yet don't miss having (which is why you simply cannot grasp this concept) is an element of critical thinking, emotion or depth, or possibly any real connection to a nuclear group at all. You do have, however, a giant chip on your shoulder which you have dragged in here, dumped it in several places until it fell into rocks and slivers into this discussion without any relevance to the issue other than your own experience of anger over something. Deal with your own mother, spouse, kid, or whatever your problem is, but these comments don't add to the original discussion or to what OP or anyone has offered.
And, to answer your ridiculous question, having 5 million dollars is nothing like having a family. Nor is being a president, owning anything at all, or any of your shallow examples. But- you already know this.

PP here. I was a NP. I was trying to show the difference between loss and disappointment. I got fired (loss) vs I hoped to earn a million (disappointment)

BTW, I would take being President over having my own grandchildren and think it is way less shallow. Think of the opportunities to bring about change to millions of children, however small it is. But to each their own.

Good luck OP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish there was a way to match people who would like to be grandparents with children who don’t have any local grandparents who actively engage with them. My SIL has parents who aren’t very interested in her kids and neither are her in-laws. She’s sad that her kids have 4 living grandparents, but none who want to get to know their grandchildren.

You should start a grandparent matching business!

Grandparent-wannabes without grandchildren would make excellent Big Brothers and Big Sisters.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in a similar situation as OP in that there does not appear to be a real chance for grandchildren from my two kids. One is gay and has expressed a desire to be childfree when married; the other is profoundly disabled. It saddens me because DH and I would have loved to be involved grandparents. It doesn’t mean there aren’t meaningful and enjoyable activities to fill our days but the loss is still a loss.

It’s not a loss when it never existed.

Sure it is. People mourn that they cannot have children.

But it’s not a loss per se.

Yes, it is a loss.
In this thread, the issue is
an actual loss of family, which is made clear, so your argument is irrelevant here.

But, women who cannot have children are experiencing a loss of having children. That is a loss.
Let's look at your suggestion outside
of this paradigm:
1. Women also lose opportunities in the workplace to men, hindering their career, as well as equal pay. Are you suggesting that they didn't lose something?
2. We see people living in poverty. If they've never had opportunity or money, is it not a loss because they never had these resources?

Your argument makes little sense regarding of whatever context you put it in.

So anything you cannot have in life is a loss as opposed to losing something you actually had? So a 1m salary, 5m in the lottery, becoming the president, I can mourn all of these? And before you say any of this is ridiculous, who are you to determine that?

What you are missing, and cannot have, nor will have, yet don't miss having (which is why you simply cannot grasp this concept) is an element of critical thinking, emotion or depth, or possibly any real connection to a nuclear group at all. You do have, however, a giant chip on your shoulder which you have dragged in here, dumped it in several places until it fell into rocks and slivers into this discussion without any relevance to the issue other than your own experience of anger over something. Deal with your own mother, spouse, kid, or whatever your problem is, but these comments don't add to the original discussion or to what OP or anyone has offered.
And, to answer your ridiculous question, having 5 million dollars is nothing like having a family. Nor is being a president, owning anything at all, or any of your shallow examples. But- you already know this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in a similar situation as OP in that there does not appear to be a real chance for grandchildren from my two kids. One is gay and has expressed a desire to be childfree when married; the other is profoundly disabled. It saddens me because DH and I would have loved to be involved grandparents. It doesn’t mean there aren’t meaningful and enjoyable activities to fill our days but the loss is still a loss.

It’s not a loss when it never existed.

Sure it is. People mourn that they cannot have children.

But it’s not a loss per se.

Yes, it is a loss.
In this thread, the issue is
an actual loss of family, which is made clear, so your argument is irrelevant here.

But, women who cannot have children are experiencing a loss of having children. That is a loss.
Let's look at your suggestion outside
of this paradigm:
1. Women also lose opportunities in the workplace to men, hindering their career, as well as equal pay. Are you suggesting that they didn't lose something?
2. We see people living in poverty. If they've never had opportunity or money, is it not a loss because they never had these resources?

Your argument makes little sense regarding of whatever context you put it in.

So anything you cannot have in life is a loss as opposed to losing something you actually had? So a 1m salary, 5m in the lottery, becoming the president, I can mourn all of these? And before you say any of this is ridiculous, who are you to determine that?

Anonymous wrote:
I wish church or synagogue wasn't just front for community. There should just be community without the dogma.

There is, it’s called “Cohousing” - not any kind of commune, just a condo development where people pitch in and have a monthly potluck and various other activities if they so desire.

The OP totally comes off as entitled, despite saying she's not. She feels justified because the thing she wants is family and not something material. But there's really no difference.

For me personally, I wish my father hadn't passed away when I was a teenager. I wish my sibling hadn't passed away when they were a teenager. I wish my childhood friends lived closer. I wish my SIL was nicer so that we could have a better relationship with her family. If I had all these wishes granted, it would be really great. However, this is not my path. I also wish I had more money. I wish I had a nicer house. I wish I was better at sports. I wish I'd had a daughter instead of two boys.

We all want things we can't have. That's life. Some people mourn the fact that they can't have kids, some mourn not being able to be a famous actor or sports star, whatever it is. The OP is mourning the loss of the family life she wanted. Mourn it, but also realize that at some point you need to get over it and stop pining and whining for something that doesn't exist.

If the OP had said something like "I wish I didn't have cancer, I've always eaten really healthily and exercised, and no one else in my family has cancer, so I didn't expect this to happen..." we all know people in this situation, and life just isn't fair. This is no different, but substitute cancer for her large extended family not being available to her, for one reason or another that is beyond anyone's control.

By definition, no one expects their life to turn out a different way than they expected, but it happens. You can plan all you want, but in the end, the saying "man plans, god laughs" is true. Some things are in your control, some aren't. You do the best you can with the cards you're dealt.

I plan to get a boat and disappear on the ocean by the time I am 60. I have six kids, three grandchildren, two more grandchildren due this year... and I have no desire to be the grandmother that takes care of the grandkids. I moved a thousand miles away from my grandkids, and I have no plans to even go back to visit for a few years. They do not know me. I am fine with that. Some of us are born with wanderlust in our souls. My suggestion, OP, is to find the things that set your soul on fire, and do those things. Don't waste your one life wishing things were different. Good luck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Time for new plans! Volunteer somewhere with small children, if you like small children. Shelters, schools, etc. Join a church if you are into that. Develop hobbies - gardening, pottery, painting, photography, birding...

This is what I would do. I’d volunteer with underprivileged kids. After school tutors, homework club, anything.

ugh...please read the thread before posting.

Anonymous wrote:Time for new plans! Volunteer somewhere with small children, if you like small children. Shelters, schools, etc. Join a church if you are into that. Develop hobbies - gardening, pottery, painting, photography, birding...

This is what I would do. I’d volunteer with underprivileged kids. After school tutors, homework club, anything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you sound like you have had a really good life and you sound not at all grateful for it. Some of us never had the huge, warm family experience growing up or as parents. You had both but still mourn not getting more as a (1950s) grandparent matriarch. It’s not an attractive look and I am sure your kids feel the same. In fact, they may not have enjoyed their large family childhood that much if they don’t even want kids.

+1
You have two sound kids with a career and they seem fine. That's more than most peple have.

I don't get these comments. The "it's not a loss per se" comments and "more than most people have" comments. OP feels the loss. So, is she wrong-feeling? Should we tell her how she's supposed to feel because, you know, that's always helpful.

FWIW, adding "per se' to any comment pretty much means the comment is useless.

She’s misguided....that’s what the consensus is. Would she prefer to have heroin addicts for her adult kids? Or ex-convicts? She really ought to be grateful in light of the pandemic.

Yeah, only you, which is not a consensus.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish there was a way to match people who would like to be grandparents with children who don’t have any local grandparents who actively engage with them. My SIL has parents who aren’t very interested in her kids and neither are her in-laws. She’s sad that her kids have 4 living grandparents, but none who want to get to know their grandchildren.

You should start a grandparent matching business!

OP here..Sign me up.

OP, people expect all sort of futures because that’s how their parents or grandparents did it. But the fact is, we are in the midst of significant societal changes. People simply don’t live like they used to. Your life sounds beyond blessed, you have had more joy and luck than most people do in a lifetime.

Let go of your expectations and start living your life. A bestie or two can replace a bustling family.

Y
You also seem to have reading comprehension issues, or did not read this thread. So many people, or probably just one(!) who don't bother to read, but just comment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you sound like you have had a really good life and you sound not at all grateful for it. Some of us never had the huge, warm family experience growing up or as parents. You had both but still mourn not getting more as a (1950s) grandparent matriarch. It’s not an attractive look and I am sure your kids feel the same. In fact, they may not have enjoyed their large family childhood that much if they don’t even want kids.

+1
You have two sound kids with a career and they seem fine. That's more than most peple have.

I don't get these comments. The "it's not a loss per se" comments and "more than most people have" comments. OP feels the loss. So, is she wrong-feeling? Should we tell her how she's supposed to feel because, you know, that's always helpful.

FWIW, adding "per se' to any comment pretty much means the comment is useless.

She’s misguided....that’s what the consensus is. Would she prefer to have heroin addicts for her adult kids? Or ex-convicts? She really ought to be grateful in light of the pandemic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish there was a way to match people who would like to be grandparents with children who don’t have any local grandparents who actively engage with them. My SIL has parents who aren’t very interested in her kids and neither are her in-laws. She’s sad that her kids have 4 living grandparents, but none who want to get to know their grandchildren.

You should start a grandparent matching business!

OP here..Sign me up.

OP, people expect all sort of futures because that’s how their parents or grandparents did it. But the fact is, we are in the midst of significant societal changes. People simply don’t live like they used to. Your life sounds beyond blessed, you have had more joy and luck than most people do in a lifetime.

Let go of your expectations and start living your life. A bestie or two can replace a bustling family.