Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really hate how the phrase degrades the valuable work of childcare providers, who are nearly all women.

When teachers union leaders say this, it comes across as incredibly out of touch and degrading. I don't understand why they do not see how awful they sound when they talk like this.

Agree. That’s another reason it’s cringey

Except teachers themselves are predominantly women and childcare providers are not expected to write legal documents, take data, conduct assessments, prepare children for state tests, etc.
If childcare providers want to become teachers, they are certainly free to work through school to make that happen. I was a nanny and I got my transitional license, went to school at night, and worked my way through my certification. The two jobs are not the same, and one of them requires a master's degree, while the other does not require any educational qualifications. That's reality.

Just stop.

I know. Lol. The 2nd to last sentence tipped it over the edge...

Why, because you think it's unkind to point out that some jobs require qualifications and degrees while others do not? Because it's true, and it isn't an opinion. Just like you can become a restaurant worker, a factory worker, or a bus driver without a diploma but you can't become a doctor, a nurse, a lawyer, an accountant, or many many other professions. If daycare providers decide they want the high salaries and prestige of teachers (sarcasm) then they should become teachers. The primary function of daycare is childcare, the primary function of school is education. That is the difference. It's not like daycare workers are primarily women and teachers are primarily men.
Lots of people who want to cry that school closures are a feminist crisis while conveniently ignoring the people who actually run our schools.

It's not true. let's start with one lie.. being a teacher does not require a master's degree.

Please don't tell me what's preferred or competitive. You can also get a degree in knitting and become a teacher through teach for America- placed in a school.

People come on this board and just say whatever.

Anonymous wrote:So much of this argument is based on the fact of mandatory attendance.....if it was optional and parents could make other arrangements then sure. Having children attend a program 6 hours a day every day precludes arrangement that Would work best for parents, and make school child care

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the same work. There's overlap, but it isn't equivalent.

Do you think it's disrespectful for a woman doctor to correct someone who refers to her as a nurse? (Or vice versa?) Or are we all required to call everything the same?

Actually yes, in many cases I do. And I live that myself. I am in a male-dominated profession that requires advanced degrees. During the course of my career, I have been mistaken for an assistant, a secretary, a SAHM, and more multiple times. When that happens, I almost never correct people. I will only correct people if it would be deceptive not to.correct them. But otherwise, yes, I do think it's disrespectful. I reject the concept that it degrades me to have people think I am an admin or a secretary or a SAHM or whatever. I respect everyone who fills those roles. I would not correct someone who thought that I was a childcare worker. I think highly of childcare workers, and it's no insult to be confused with one. I will never promote myself by being disrespectful of the career of someone else. If I need to do that, I've done something wrong.

So when I hear teachers and unions talk disparagingly about how school isn't childcare, what I hear is disappointing disparagement and disrespect towards childcare workers. It has a classist and racist edge to it that makes me very uncomfortable.

I don't know about your job, but you don't take medical advice from a nurse to be of a different level than medical advice about diagnosis and treatment from a licensed physician?

You don't see why identifying yourself correctly is or isn't important to a patient? Not just a matter of ego or hierarchy?

Wow. I'll leave it at that.

This is more like saying "patient CARE? I went to med school and residency to practice medicine, not care for patients. That's what a nurse does." We know doctors don't change bedpans but trying to totally separate the care part from the knowledge part sounds a bit unkind toward both patients and nurses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the same work. There's overlap, but it isn't equivalent.

Do you think it's disrespectful for a woman doctor to correct someone who refers to her as a nurse? (Or vice versa?) Or are we all required to call everything the same?

Actually yes, in many cases I do. And I live that myself. I am in a male-dominated profession that requires advanced degrees. During the course of my career, I have been mistaken for an assistant, a secretary, a SAHM, and more multiple times. When that happens, I almost never correct people. I will only correct people if it would be deceptive not to.correct them. But otherwise, yes, I do think it's disrespectful. I reject the concept that it degrades me to have people think I am an admin or a secretary or a SAHM or whatever. I respect everyone who fills those roles. I would not correct someone who thought that I was a childcare worker. I think highly of childcare workers, and it's no insult to be confused with one. I will never promote myself by being disrespectful of the career of someone else. If I need to do that, I've done something wrong.

So when I hear teachers and unions talk disparagingly about how school isn't childcare, what I hear is disappointing disparagement and disrespect towards childcare workers. It has a classist and racist edge to it that makes me very uncomfortable.

I don't know about your job, but you don't take medical advice from a nurse to be of a different level than medical advice about diagnosis and treatment from a licensed physician?

You don't see why identifying yourself correctly is or isn't important to a patient? Not just a matter of ego or hierarchy?

Wow. I'll leave it at that.

This is more like saying "patient CARE? I went to med school and residency to practice medicine, not care for patients. That's what a nurse does." We know doctors don't change bedpans but trying to totally separate the care part from the knowledge part sounds a bit unkind toward both patients and nurses.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the point is that childcare is not the primary purpose of school, if it were it would be open year round like daycare.

The school being open fall to spring is also an old concept when you needed kids at home for harvest in summer. That's completely moot now for 90% or more of the population and should be revisited. Year round school for everyone with longer breaks to provide actual breaks and if colleges have the same schedule there will be camps etc for those that need the childcare during breaks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is ridiculous to say, “oh, I know that school as an institution has been providing childcare for the history of history, but that’s just ancillary to the mandate of education. I don’t know why everyone on earth can’t just whip up an easy solution for childcare that doesn’t involve the largest childcare institution in the world.”

Words mean things. Legislation means things.

If you want school to not just provide childcare by happenstance, but by part of the mandate, then lobby to change the mandate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the same work. There's overlap, but it isn't equivalent.

Do you think it's disrespectful for a woman doctor to correct someone who refers to her as a nurse? (Or vice versa?) Or are we all required to call everything the same?

Actually yes, in many cases I do. And I live that myself. I am in a male-dominated profession that requires advanced degrees. During the course of my career, I have been mistaken for an assistant, a secretary, a SAHM, and more multiple times. When that happens, I almost never correct people. I will only correct people if it would be deceptive not to.correct them. But otherwise, yes, I do think it's disrespectful. I reject the concept that it degrades me to have people think I am an admin or a secretary or a SAHM or whatever. I respect everyone who fills those roles. I would not correct someone who thought that I was a childcare worker. I think highly of childcare workers, and it's no insult to be confused with one. I will never promote myself by being disrespectful of the career of someone else. If I need to do that, I've done something wrong.

So when I hear teachers and unions talk disparagingly about how school isn't childcare, what I hear is disappointing disparagement and disrespect towards childcare workers. It has a classist and racist edge to it that makes me very uncomfortable.

I don't know about your job, but you don't take medical advice from a nurse to be of a different level than medical advice about diagnosis and treatment from a licensed physician?

You don't see why identifying yourself correctly is or isn't important to a patient? Not just a matter of ego or hierarchy?

Wow. I'll leave it at that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can only even have this argument because technology allows for "distance learning". A few decades ago, schools would just have closed, and then they wouldn't have been providing education OR child care. Before now, the child care and education were inseparable because kids had to be in person to do it.

Right, and I think that's clouding the discussion. I have an incoming kindergartener who can't read. (We're working on it, he knows some sight words and is getting better at sounding them out, but he isn't a comfortable, fluent, independent reader.) I'm frankly quite skeptical that they ARE separable. I suspect the parents or whoever is doing the childcare will also be doing an equal amount of the education as the teacher, if not more. I suspect kids will not learn as much if they have working parents, which would indicate that education is not something you can deliver at arm's reach. These are just my suspicions. I'd like to be wrong.

Then teach your kid to read like the rest of us did. You still need to supplement at home.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the same work. There's overlap, but it isn't equivalent.

Do you think it's disrespectful for a woman doctor to correct someone who refers to her as a nurse? (Or vice versa?) Or are we all required to call everything the same?

Actually yes, in many cases I do. And I live that myself. I am in a male-dominated profession that requires advanced degrees. During the course of my career, I have been mistaken for an assistant, a secretary, a SAHM, and more multiple times. When that happens, I almost never correct people. I will only correct people if it would be deceptive not to.correct them. But otherwise, yes, I do think it's disrespectful. I reject the concept that it degrades me to have people think I am an admin or a secretary or a SAHM or whatever. I respect everyone who fills those roles. I would not correct someone who thought that I was a childcare worker. I think highly of childcare workers, and it's no insult to be confused with one. I will never promote myself by being disrespectful of the career of someone else. If I need to do that, I've done something wrong.

So when I hear teachers and unions talk disparagingly about how school isn't childcare, what I hear is disappointing disparagement and disrespect towards childcare workers. It has a classist and racist edge to it that makes me very uncomfortable.

I don't know about your job, but you don't take medical advice from a nurse to be of a different level than medical advice about diagnosis and treatment from a licensed physician?

You don't see why identifying yourself correctly is or isn't important to a patient? Not just a matter of ego or hierarchy?

Wow. I'll leave it at that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not the same work. There's overlap, but it isn't equivalent.

Do you think it's disrespectful for a woman doctor to correct someone who refers to her as a nurse? (Or vice versa?) Or are we all required to call everything the same?

Actually yes, in many cases I do. And I live that myself. I am in a male-dominated profession that requires advanced degrees. During the course of my career, I have been mistaken for an assistant, a secretary, a SAHM, and more multiple times. When that happens, I almost never correct people. I will only correct people if it would be deceptive not to.correct them. But otherwise, yes, I do think it's disrespectful. I reject the concept that it degrades me to have people think I am an admin or a secretary or a SAHM or whatever. I respect everyone who fills those roles. I would not correct someone who thought that I was a childcare worker. I think highly of childcare workers, and it's no insult to be confused with one. I will never promote myself by being disrespectful of the career of someone else. If I need to do that, I've done something wrong.

So when I hear teachers and unions talk disparagingly about how school isn't childcare, what I hear is disappointing disparagement and disrespect towards childcare workers. It has a classist and racist edge to it that makes me very uncomfortable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We can only even have this argument because technology allows for "distance learning". A few decades ago, schools would just have closed, and then they wouldn't have been providing education OR child care. Before now, the child care and education were inseparable because kids had to be in person to do it.

Right, and I think that's clouding the discussion. I have an incoming kindergartener who can't read. (We're working on it, he knows some sight words and is getting better at sounding them out, but he isn't a comfortable, fluent, independent reader.) I'm frankly quite skeptical that they ARE separable. I suspect the parents or whoever is doing the childcare will also be doing an equal amount of the education as the teacher, if not more. I suspect kids will not learn as much if they have working parents, which would indicate that education is not something you can deliver at arm's reach. These are just my suspicions. I'd like to be wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It means you need to figure it out. Lots of different ways to do it but stop putting your responsibilities on someone else. One parent, family, hire someone, day cares.

This is a horrifically libertarian or hyperindividualist view which makes me sad yet captures all the decay in our society. We need to have a safety net of some kind. We need to stop saying millions of children are “not our responsibility”. Are they the responsibility of the schools? Yes, usually, and now we are in crisis which requires us to come together, not push this off onto individuals who most of the time cannot just pívot away from their jobs.