Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ so many of us working moms do all of those SAHM chores as well—the meals, school volunteering, grocery shopping and shuttling and many of the spouses pitch in as well. That argument never resonated with me. I think many SAHMs have serious time management issues coupled with inherent laziness—especially the ones that never go back to work.

This kind of drives me crazy. Very likely you either don't do it, or you have real help.

If you are a SAHM with kid in school, that's about 30 hours a week on your own.

preparing meals- 3-5 hours/wk
school volunteering - 2-3 hours/wk
other volunteering - 2-3 hours/wk
grocery shopping - 1-2 hours/wk
general cleaning the house - 3-5 hours/wk
shuttling kids around to doctor/dentist/orthodontist or going to school play etc - 2-3 hours/wk
general errands (new clothes, running to target, post office, etc) - 1-2 hours/wk
laundry - 2-3 hours/wk
yard work (mowing, planting flowers, shoveling snow, etc) - 2-3 hours/wk
general paperwork, managing finances - 1-2 hours/wk
organizing/decorating house (moving out seasonal clothing, getting rid of junk, painting, etc) - 2-4 hours/wk
exercise - 3-5 hours/wk

So, that's 24-40 hours/wk that is mostly outside of actual childcare (if you take out exercise it's 21-35 hours/wk). If you are doing this while working, then either your entire evenings and much of your weekends are devoted to these things, you aren't actually getting some things done, or you have someone else (spouse, housekeeper, parent, etc) who is doing a lot of it for you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Explain to us exactly what incredible thing you did while married that now you should be paid in perpetuity by your former spouse? Are you still doing his laundry? Cooking him meals? Sleeping with him? Doing the job of a SAHM? If you’ve stopped rendering your SAHM services to him, why is he forced to invest his time

You can’t be serious. I can give you an example (not me, but someone I know very well). DH and DW met at top law school. Both worked at law firms after graduation, DH at mid-sized firm and DW at big, prestigious firm. After having two kids, DW worked part-time (agreed to by both spouses), but still long hours/some late nights and still out-earned DH. Going part-time took DW off partner track. DH wanted to be partner, could not be parent staying home when kids were sick or leaving at night to relieve nanny. Also needed to travel frequently. Spouses agreed DW would stay home to relieve pressure on entire family, but especially DH. DW quit job after 10+ years, and DH/DW decided to have one more kid. DH eventually made partner, became very high earner ($1m+ per year). After 30 years of marriage, youngest DC graduates and DH/DW are almost 60. DW now has been out of working world for years and is close to retirement age. No prospects at all in her former chosen field. DH still making crazy money. Why don’t you explain why DW should NOT get spousal support?

Clearly this woman is smart and educated and should have a full time job. There is no way that he should be forced to work to pay her she she doesn’t have to work. If she’s working 60+ stressful hours per week like him, and she still can’t make ends meet, perhaps then he might kick in a few $$.

Even in your example, her SAHM role does not justify he works his ass off while she plays tennis. Sorry: fulltime job for her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Explain to us exactly what incredible thing you did while married that now you should be paid in perpetuity by your former spouse? Are you still doing his laundry? Cooking him meals? Sleeping with him? Doing the job of a SAHM? If you’ve stopped rendering your SAHM services to him, why is he forced to invest his time

You can’t be serious. I can give you an example (not me, but someone I know very well). DH and DW met at top law school. Both worked at law firms after graduation, DH at mid-sized firm and DW at big, prestigious firm. After having two kids, DW worked part-time (agreed to by both spouses), but still long hours/some late nights and still out-earned DH. Going part-time took DW off partner track. DH wanted to be partner, could not be parent staying home when kids were sick or leaving at night to relieve nanny. Also needed to travel frequently. Spouses agreed DW would stay home to relieve pressure on entire family, but especially DH. DW quit job after 10+ years, and DH/DW decided to have one more kid. DH eventually made partner, became very high earner ($1m+ per year). After 30 years of marriage, youngest DC graduates and DH/DW are almost 60. DW now has been out of working world for years and is close to retirement age. No prospects at all in her former chosen field. DH still making crazy money. Why don’t you explain why DW should NOT get spousal support?

Clearly this woman is smart and educated and should have a full time job. There is no way that he should be forced to work to pay her she she doesn’t have to work. If she’s working 60+ stressful hours per week like him, and she still can’t make ends meet, perhaps then he might kick in a few $$.

Even in your example, her SAHM role does not justify he works his ass off while she plays tennis. Sorry: fulltime job for her.

Anonymous wrote:^ so many of us working moms do all of those SAHM chores as well—the meals, school volunteering, grocery shopping and shuttling and many of the spouses pitch in as well. That argument never resonated with me. I think many SAHMs have serious time management issues coupled with inherent laziness—especially the ones that never go back to work.

Anonymous wrote:

Explain to us exactly what incredible thing you did while married that now you should be paid in perpetuity by your former spouse? Are you still doing his laundry? Cooking him meals? Sleeping with him? Doing the job of a SAHM? If you’ve stopped rendering your SAHM services to him, why is he forced to invest his time

You can’t be serious. I can give you an example (not me, but someone I know very well). DH and DW met at top law school. Both worked at law firms after graduation, DH at mid-sized firm and DW at big, prestigious firm. After having two kids, DW worked part-time (agreed to by both spouses), but still long hours/some late nights and still out-earned DH. Going part-time took DW off partner track. DH wanted to be partner, could not be parent staying home when kids were sick or leaving at night to relieve nanny. Also needed to travel frequently. Spouses agreed DW would stay home to relieve pressure on entire family, but especially DH. DW quit job after 10+ years, and DH/DW decided to have one more kid. DH eventually made partner, became very high earner ($1m+ per year). After 30 years of marriage, youngest DC graduates and DH/DW are almost 60. DW now has been out of working world for years and is close to retirement age. No prospects at all in her former chosen field. DH still making crazy money. Why don’t you explain why DW should NOT get spousal support?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On what planet is a divorced able bodied woman supported by her EX husband? Earth to the clueless: it's year 2020. GET A FULLTIME JOB LADIES. For all intents, is no such thing as alimony anymore.

I don’t think that really happens anymore. I got no alimony and very little child support.

The only men I know who support their ex-wives basically gave up custody because they wanted to move out of state, focus on work, or didn’t enjoy being a parent. So they end up paying a lot more in child support since mom has them full-time. Often they send extra money because they feel guilty.

I think many women don’t realize this until it’s too late. They only read the fiction of fabulous lives and ex’s $.

I don’t know any woman who divorced thinking they would get a ton of money, and they were all happy to give up money for their freedom.

+1

It is not the old days. Women are not being supported post-divorce. People who think otherwise have no clue.

The original question was SAHM.

A woman who is a SAHM in a long-term relationship will get spousal support. Typically for half the length of the marriage and if married over 20 years, lifetime. Especially if the husband is a high earner.

Anonymous wrote:

Explain to us exactly what incredible thing you did while married that now you should be paid in perpetuity by your former spouse? Are you still doing his laundry? Cooking him meals? Sleeping with him? Doing the job of a SAHM? If you’ve stopped rendering your SAHM services to him, why is he forced to invest his time

You can’t be serious. I can give you an example (not me, but someone I know very well). DH and DW met at top law school. Both worked at law firms after graduation, DH at mid-sized firm and DW at big, prestigious firm. After having two kids, DW worked part-time (agreed to by both spouses), but still long hours/some late nights and still out-earned DH. Going part-time took DW off partner track. DH wanted to be partner, could not be parent staying home when kids were sick or leaving at night to relieve nanny. Also needed to travel frequently. Spouses agreed DW would stay home to relieve pressure on entire family, but especially DH. DW quit job after 10+ years, and DH/DW decided to have one more kid. DH eventually made partner, became very high earner ($1m+ per year). After 30 years of marriage, youngest DC graduates and DH/DW are almost 60. DW now has been out of working world for years and is close to retirement age. No prospects at all in her former chosen field. DH still making crazy money. Why don’t you explain why DW should NOT get spousal support?

Anonymous wrote:^ so many of us working moms do all of those SAHM chores as well—the meals, school volunteering, grocery shopping and shuttling and many of the spouses pitch in as well. That argument never resonated with me. I think many SAHMs have serious time management issues coupled with inherent laziness—especially the ones that never go back to work.

Anonymous wrote:

Explain to us exactly what incredible thing you did while married that now you should be paid in perpetuity by your former spouse? Are you still doing his laundry? Cooking him meals? Sleeping with him? Doing the job of a SAHM? If you’ve stopped rendering your SAHM services to him, why is he forced to invest his time

You can’t be serious. I can give you an example (not me, but someone I know very well). DH and DW met at top law school. Both worked at law firms after graduation, DH at mid-sized firm and DW at big, prestigious firm. After having two kids, DW worked part-time (agreed to by both spouses), but still long hours/some late nights and still out-earned DH. Going part-time took DW off partner track. DH wanted to be partner, could not be parent staying home when kids were sick or leaving at night to relieve nanny. Also needed to travel frequently. Spouses agreed DW would stay home to relieve pressure on entire family, but especially DH. DW quit job after 10+ years, and DH/DW decided to have one more kid. DH eventually made partner, became very high earner ($1m+ per year). After 30 years of marriage, youngest DC graduates and DH/DW are almost 60. DW now has been out of working world for years and is close to retirement age. No prospects at all in her former chosen field. DH still making crazy money. Why don’t you explain why DW should NOT get spousal support?

Explain to us exactly what incredible thing you did while married that now you should be paid in perpetuity by your former spouse? Are you still doing his laundry? Cooking him meals? Sleeping with him? Doing the job of a SAHM? If you’ve stopped rendering your SAHM services to him, why is he forced to invest his time

Anonymous wrote:My husbands ex was a SAHM. When kids went to school, he tried to get her to go back to work. She refused. They had many issues, and her refusing to work was a sore spot with him. His mom worked, and her mom worked, so his norm was a working mom. She went back to college, graduated, then got a part time job. She didn’t like it so she quit. And that was it. He left. They were married a total of 13 years - to include time separated pending divorce.
I met him post divorce. He lived in a tiny one bedroom apartment. He was paying 65% of his income to her. I get supporting the kids, but it really hurt that he had to continue supporting someone who had refused to work. She also told the kids he wasn’t giving her enough, and that is why they had to move. They moved because she wanted to move closer to her boyfriend.Ultimatly, she got a job and from what I can tell is successful.
Kids are grown now. She gets part of his retirement.
She’s been with the same boyfriend as long as my husband and I have been together - which is longer than they were married. They will never get married because she doesn’t want to lose part of his retirement.
So, from my POV, husbands Often get screwed in divorce.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Explain to us exactly what incredible thing you did while married that now you should be paid in perpetuity by your former spouse? Are you still doing his laundry? Cooking him meals? Sleeping with him? Doing the job of a SAHM? If you’ve stopped rendering your SAHM services to him, why is he forced to invest his time earning money to pay you while you offer nothing back?

I’m not the pp, but most of the SAHMs I know in this position are still raising the children, so they are rendering SAHM services.

So you personally know of several dads who did not want any custody of their multiple infants/toddlers thereby requiring the ex wife be a non working full time SAHM? That's so odd! I know of zero cases like that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Places like WalMart, Target, Joanne are always hiring. If her income is low enough, she will qualify for SNAP benefits and Medicaid. Her lifestyle will take a huge hit but she won't be homeless on the street.

If there's no prenup, she will be entitled to at least some spousal support. The courts in most states don't care if she had a thousand affairs.

In Virginia, they do.

No, VA does not really care.

Yeah, it really does. Proof of adultery = bye-bye, spousal support!

Your premise is that there would be any spousal support in the first place which is almost never the case nowadays.

Exactly. If people get it, it is temporary. And only people with very high income spouse would get enough to live on (and even that may be a few years and not more). Almost everyone would have to get a job.

Wrong and wrong. I have indefinite spousal support. And I also work.

I don't use terms like "high income." I have no idea what that might mean in your world. it's pretty subjective. But I can tell you that at least half of my divorced friends got to keep large marital homes, and they do not work. Or they work part-time as personal trainers or personal shoppers - no benefits or anything. I know one who works in a clothing store. Several who do absolutely nothing except play tennis.

Pretty much like my married friends. Half work, half don't.

Explain to us exactly what incredible thing you did while married that now you should be paid in perpetuity by your former spouse? Are you still doing his laundry? Cooking him meals? Sleeping with him? Doing the job of a SAHM? If you’ve stopped rendering your SAHM services to him, why is he forced to invest his time earning money to pay you while you offer nothing back?

I’m not the pp, but most of the SAHMs I know in this position are still raising the children, so they are rendering SAHM services.