Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a person descended from european immigrants (with classically "white" skin that sunburns) ….

Many posters are making me ridiculously uncomfortable because they are basically advocating for the Paper Bag Test, 2.0 They don't say that of course, but in effect that's how they select who gets to self identify as a "POC" and who doesn't.

Basically, a rule out / rule in test on the explicit basis of physiological features, starting with skin tone. (super pale skinned Egyptian woman with thin nose and wavy, shiny hair? Nope. Dark olive skinned Egyptian woman — say, the color of a PAPER BAG — with 4c curls and a wide nose bridge? YES.).

Yes I understand that this is about self identity, but, it's undeniable that there are multiple posters who want to act as the hall monitor for others' racial labels

Appearance - yes, skin color - is important because it often dictates how you get treated. You can identify as a POC or BIPOC or whatever, but it’s by and large visibly darker skinned minorities who are profiled and discriminated against.

Yes, but as other have said, there are extremely violent people—Neo-Nazis in particular—who don’t give 2 shts about your skin color. If they know you’re a Jew, they’ll kill you.

But the Neo Nazis are criminals and on the fringes of society. Black people are talking about systemic and institutionalized racism. It’s different when a Police officer murders you vs when a criminal and known bigot murders you.

Jews are more likely to be victims of hate crimes than any other group, including blacks.

They are not as fringe as you’d like to think.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Somewhat related, can someone explain to me why POC is now a no-no term? Is it because it doesn't center blackness? A black woman who seems to consider herself a spiritual leader on my FaceBook feed announced she was going to unfriend the next person who used the term POC. Why?

I assume because people want to focus on the groups within POC who people thinks continue to suffer most - Black people more than, say, a person of East Asian descent. Both are POC, but I gotta say as a person of East Asian descent I got some dirty looks from black and Hispanic students for showing up to a POC event in college. I assume BIPOC is to prevent stuff like that from happening

But as a Jewish person, I still wouldn’t be accepted.

Right, because lots and lots of Jewish people did really well, just like East Asian immigrants did. So you and I don’t get included in the recent discrimination talk. I’m aware of the Holocaust, pograms, century after century of persecution against Jews. I’m also aware of a history of racism against East Asians - we all learn about Jim Crow but I’m always shocked to hear that many higher schoolers never learn about the Exclusion Act against Chinese or about Internment camps. So I have mixed feelings about this. I feel as a person of East Asian descent that culturally it’s totally acceptable to be racist against East Asians and nobody gives a crap. But I admit it’s not people who look like me who are being shot and suffocated to death by police.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a person descended from european immigrants (with classically "white" skin that sunburns) ….

Many posters are making me ridiculously uncomfortable because they are basically advocating for the Paper Bag Test, 2.0 They don't say that of course, but in effect that's how they select who gets to self identify as a "POC" and who doesn't.

Basically, a rule out / rule in test on the explicit basis of physiological features, starting with skin tone. (super pale skinned Egyptian woman with thin nose and wavy, shiny hair? Nope. Dark olive skinned Egyptian woman — say, the color of a PAPER BAG — with 4c curls and a wide nose bridge? YES.).

Yes I understand that this is about self identity, but, it's undeniable that there are multiple posters who want to act as the hall monitor for others' racial labels

Appearance - yes, skin color - is important because it often dictates how you get treated. You can identify as a POC or BIPOC or whatever, but it’s by and large visibly darker skinned minorities who are profiled and discriminated against.

Yes, but as other have said, there are extremely violent people—Neo-Nazis in particular—who don’t give 2 shts about your skin color. If they know you’re a Jew, they’ll kill you.

But the Neo Nazis are criminals and on the fringes of society. Black people are talking about systemic and institutionalized racism. It’s different when a Police officer murders you vs when a criminal and known bigot murders you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a person descended from european immigrants (with classically "white" skin that sunburns) ….

Many posters are making me ridiculously uncomfortable because they are basically advocating for the Paper Bag Test, 2.0 They don't say that of course, but in effect that's how they select who gets to self identify as a "POC" and who doesn't.

Basically, a rule out / rule in test on the explicit basis of physiological features, starting with skin tone. (super pale skinned Egyptian woman with thin nose and wavy, shiny hair? Nope. Dark olive skinned Egyptian woman — say, the color of a PAPER BAG — with 4c curls and a wide nose bridge? YES.).

Yes I understand that this is about self identity, but, it's undeniable that there are multiple posters who want to act as the hall monitor for others' racial labels

Appearance - yes, skin color - is important because it often dictates how you get treated. You can identify as a POC or BIPOC or whatever, but it’s by and large visibly darker skinned minorities who are profiled and discriminated against.

Yes, but as other have said, there are extremely violent people—Neo-Nazis in particular—who don’t give 2 shts about your skin color. If they know you’re a Jew, they’ll kill you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Somewhat related, can someone explain to me why POC is now a no-no term? Is it because it doesn't center blackness? A black woman who seems to consider herself a spiritual leader on my FaceBook feed announced she was going to unfriend the next person who used the term POC. Why?

I assume because people want to focus on the groups within POC who people thinks continue to suffer most - Black people more than, say, a person of East Asian descent. Both are POC, but I gotta say as a person of East Asian descent I got some dirty looks from black and Hispanic students for showing up to a POC event in college. I assume BIPOC is to prevent stuff like that from happening

But as a Jewish person, I still wouldn’t be accepted.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree we should get back to the topic. I think BIPOC could mean either:

Black, indigenous people of color (so, black people who were born here and are descendants of slaves, right, not recent immigrants from, say Nigeria.
This would not include the traditional definition of POC, which would includes people of Asian and Hispanic descent.

OR

Black + indigenous + other people of color (so black people, Native Americans, and other people of color, including Asians, Hispanics...)
So this would include the old POC group but put extra preference and emphasis on black POC and Native American POC.
Is this right?

We’ve been discussing it. We’ve been discussing how to define POC and who is white.

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is that BIPOC refers to Black Americans (with implicit reference to descendants of enslaved people rather than more recent African immigrants), and indigenous Americans (what we used to call Native Americans or Indians). The term is useful insofar as it refers to two populations that did not voluntarily come into contact with settler, European-American populations through immigration, but instead were forcibly brought here (ADOS, descendants of enslaved Africans) or colonized and persecuted (descendants of indigenous North Americans).

So, no, it doesn’t include Asians or Middle Easterns etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Somewhat related, can someone explain to me why POC is now a no-no term? Is it because it doesn't center blackness? A black woman who seems to consider herself a spiritual leader on my FaceBook feed announced she was going to unfriend the next person who used the term POC. Why?

I assume because people want to focus on the groups within POC who people thinks continue to suffer most - Black people more than, say, a person of East Asian descent. Both are POC, but I gotta say as a person of East Asian descent I got some dirty looks from black and Hispanic students for showing up to a POC event in college. I assume BIPOC is to prevent stuff like that from happening

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a person descended from european immigrants (with classically "white" skin that sunburns) ….

Many posters are making me ridiculously uncomfortable because they are basically advocating for the Paper Bag Test, 2.0 They don't say that of course, but in effect that's how they select who gets to self identify as a "POC" and who doesn't.

Basically, a rule out / rule in test on the explicit basis of physiological features, starting with skin tone. (super pale skinned Egyptian woman with thin nose and wavy, shiny hair? Nope. Dark olive skinned Egyptian woman — say, the color of a PAPER BAG — with 4c curls and a wide nose bridge? YES.).

Yes I understand that this is about self identity, but, it's undeniable that there are multiple posters who want to act as the hall monitor for others' racial labels

Appearance - yes, skin color - is important because it often dictates how you get treated. You can identify as a POC or BIPOC or whatever, but it’s by and large visibly darker skinned minorities who are profiled and discriminated against.

Anonymous wrote:Somewhat related, can someone explain to me why POC is now a no-no term? Is it because it doesn't center blackness? A black woman who seems to consider herself a spiritual leader on my FaceBook feed announced she was going to unfriend the next person who used the term POC. Why?

Anonymous wrote:As a person descended from european immigrants (with classically "white" skin that sunburns) ….

Many posters are making me ridiculously uncomfortable because they are basically advocating for the Paper Bag Test, 2.0 They don't say that of course, but in effect that's how they select who gets to self identify as a "POC" and who doesn't.

Basically, a rule out / rule in test on the explicit basis of physiological features, starting with skin tone. (super pale skinned Egyptian woman with thin nose and wavy, shiny hair? Nope. Dark olive skinned Egyptian woman — say, the color of a PAPER BAG — with 4c curls and a wide nose bridge? YES.).

Yes I understand that this is about self identity, but, it's undeniable that there are multiple posters who want to act as the hall monitor for others' racial labels

Anonymous wrote:As a person descended from european immigrants (with classically "white" skin that sunburns) ….

Many posters are making me ridiculously uncomfortable because they are basically advocating for the Paper Bag Test, 2.0 They don't say that of course, but in effect that's how they select who gets to self identify as a "POC" and who doesn't.

Basically, a rule out / rule in test on the explicit basis of physiological features, starting with skin tone. (super pale skinned Egyptian woman with thin nose and wavy, shiny hair? Nope. Dark olive skinned Egyptian woman — say, the color of a PAPER BAG — with 4c curls and a wide nose bridge? YES.).

Yes I understand that this is about self identity, but, it's undeniable that there are multiple posters who want to act as the hall monitor for others' racial labels