Anonymous
05/24/2020 01:10
Subject: Colleges that alums always rave about
Anonymous wrote:You can keep saying that all you want but it’s well known that UVA gets only 6 percent of its operating budget from the Commonwealth. That fact is even in wiki. So until you address that figure, you’ve lost me no matter how much dividing you do. But actually I really don’t care so won’t be returning to this argument. Let it return to the real question if thus thread.
They are two different things, which should be obvious. Both can be correct. But only one speaks to how much money is received from the state per student, and that is what I provided. Appropriation per FTE is an apples to apples comparison since not all schools will have the same amount of money coming from areas like sponsored research (which largely comes from federal sources and no one expects it to be funded by the general fund). That inflates the denominator, which is how you can get to 6% of total operating budget (but note UVA's own budget summary shows a somewhat higher percentage of over 8% https://financialplanning.vpfinance.virginia.edu/sites/financialplanning.virginia.edu/files/FY2020%20Final%20Operating%20Budget%20060419.pdf )
Anonymous
05/24/2020 00:37
Subject: Colleges that alums always rave about
You can keep saying that all you want but it’s well known that UVA gets only 6 percent of its operating budget from the Commonwealth. That fact is even in wiki. So until you address that figure, you’ve lost me no matter how much dividing you do. But actually I really don’t care so won’t be returning to this argument. Let it return to the real question if thus thread.
Anonymous
05/24/2020 00:30
Subject: Colleges that alums always rave about
Anonymous wrote:I disagree. UVA gets only 6% of its operating budget from the Commonwealth so something is off with PPs analysis but I don’t care enough to dig deeper. My kids adored the place and we can’t afford to donate much at this points in our lives which just demonstrates the point of this thread that alumni donations and alumni satisfaction do not correlate 100%, especially at state schools which serve the wealthy and non wealthy, both of which might go into the less lucrative careers of nursing, teaching and government.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The link for general budget doesn’t work and doesn’t tgat grabt support The massive UVA hospital as well?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t think this is correct. Cite please.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:hardly. Please go read the responsible 13:50 above. State universities have a different mission than small private institutions do. Also they are funded by the Commonwealth so don’t need to worry as much as the Slacs do about giving. Finally, UVA already has a 6.2 billion dollar endowment since it agreed to take less from the Commonwealth in exchange for more freedom. It manages itself far better than the Commonwealth ever did.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Do you not THINK before you post? What schools are at the top of the list? The small expensive privates where only the wealthy and scholarship kids can now afford to attend ergo the wealthy donate and the poor graduates do not (especially because their own parents were not in a position to donate to their own schools, if they attended college at all. So what might you expect to be in the lower end if this list? The large publics whose job it is to service the needs of ALL of the students in the state. Simply by definition you are going to have more cost-conscious families ( like ours) who watch every dime in the public universities but that has nothing to do with university spirit or alumni connections. It is also the mission of public universities to turn out new members of the service industry, as UVA does, in the less well-paid careers of nursing, teaching and lower paying government service.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:UVA
Do they really? Is the alumni network strong and supportive? How about the percent of alumni giving? Just asking. (All the parent I know love it because of the in-state tuition, oh, and they were national champs last year in men's basketball)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2018/08/21/grateful-grads-2018-200-colleges-with-the-happiest-most-successful-alumni/#34da262e1a0a
UVA does NOT make the list.
I saw that! I'm guessing the parents of in-state students love it for the price tag, but the students not so much.
Top 15 for "Students Love These Colleges" in Princeton Review:
Vanderbilt
Tulane
Kansas State
Brown
Wisconsin
William & Mary
Lehigh
Virginia Tech
Clemson
Auburn
Emory
Olin
Williams
Wash U
Dayton
Interesting mix.
And only VA has two states on the list. The best STEM school and the best LAC in the state. UVA must be crying.
To be fair, UVA gets more from the state on a per student basis than all but the two HBCUs. JMU gets the least. JMU only gets 56% as much as UVA for a full time equivalent.
State budget and in-state enrollment.
State budget, General Fund appropriations. https://budget.lis.virginia.gov/secretariat/2020/1...Chapter/1/office-of-education/
In State FTE Enrollment: https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/E5B_Report.asp
GF Per in-state FTE looks like this:
Norfolk State University $16,132
Virginia State University $14,719
University of Virginia $10,529
William & Mary $9,453
Virginia Commonwealth University $9,396
Old Dominion University $8,746
University of Mary Washington $8,306
Virginia Tech $8,261
Longwood University $7,987
Radford University $7,746
Christopher Newport University $7,592
George Mason University $6,661
James Madison University $5,896
Try this one. https://budget.lis.virginia.gov/secretariat/2020/1/HB30/Chapter/1/office-of-education/
General Fund does not fund any part of the hospital if you look at the components. It is largely funded by "Higher Education Operating" which is a catchall for tuition, fees, and in this case patient fees. The biggest state benefit to the UVA hospital is that it operates tax free as a non-profit. The thing to look at is General Fund, which is the part coming from state revenues.
I only post this because there is a misconception that UVA doesn't get money from the state. State support for UVA is generous compared to other Virginia higher education institutions. If you compare to other states, Virginia spends on higher education than most.
Well, that's my point. UVA hospital is the best in the state. It can't turn anyone away, so if the Commonwealth is paying UVA for "patient fees" then, yes, of course you could say a lot of money goes to UVA. But you are missing the point about declining funding to the University itself because the University is managing itself so well. Remember that UVA spun itself off in 2005. From wiki "Due to a continual decline in state funding for the university, today only 6 percent of its budget comes from the Commonwealth of Virginia.[48] A Charter initiative was signed into law by then-Governor Mark Warner in 2005, negotiated with the university to have greater autonomy over its own affairs in exchange for accepting this decline in financial support.". In 2005, UVA begun doing its own investing so now has a 9.6 billion dollar endowment. Even with only 6% of its budge coming from the state, it is doing very well.
No. You have missed the point completely. If you strip away the hospital and don't even consider it, UVA (the academic division) gets more per in-state FTE student from the General Fund (i.e. tax revenues) than any other school in the Commonwealth other than Norfolk State and Virginia State. Look at the links above. If you compare it to JMU, for instance, UVA gets $10,529 per in-state FTE from the general fund. JMU gets only $5,896, or only 56% as much per capita as UVA.
People cite this restructuring act and say things like "UVA spun itself off in 2005". That suggests no money from the state and that is completely incorrect as shown above.
Going back to the hospital, patient fees are paid by insurance, out-of-of pocket, and by programs like Medicare and Medicaid. Nothing from the general fund and nothing that is accounted for in the $10,529 cited above. The state's benefit to UVA hospital operations is largely that it is allowed to operate tax exempt. The hospital makes a significant profit and the restructuring act has allowed UVA to use excess funds for other purposes (e.g. the "Strategic Investment Fund").
Sounds like UVA gets to eat their cake and have it too.
Nothing is off in the analysis. It is all very straightforward and taken directly from publicly available information. Simply take the general fund appropriation, which is readily available in the state legislative system, and divide by the number of FTE in-state students, which is available on the state's SCHEV website. You'll find UVA gets more per in-state FTE than all other schools other than Norfolk State and Virginia State. Again, I am just countering the obviously false statement like "UVA spun itself off in 2005". That isn't a fair representation to schools like JMU, which get much less per FTE in-state student.
UVA used to get a higher percentage from the state, and it gets less per in-state FTE from the state than schools like UNC-CH and UMD-College Park, but that doesn't mean it doesn't get more from the state than all but the HCBUs.
Anonymous
05/23/2020 23:54
Subject: Colleges that alums always rave about
I disagree. UVA gets only 6% of its operating budget from the Commonwealth so something is off with PPs analysis but I don’t care enough to dig deeper. My kids adored the place and we can’t afford to donate much at this points in our lives which just demonstrates the point of this thread that alumni donations and alumni satisfaction do not correlate 100%, especially at state schools which serve the wealthy and non wealthy, both of which might go into the less lucrative careers of nursing, teaching and government.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The link for general budget doesn’t work and doesn’t tgat grabt support The massive UVA hospital as well?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t think this is correct. Cite please.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:hardly. Please go read the responsible 13:50 above. State universities have a different mission than small private institutions do. Also they are funded by the Commonwealth so don’t need to worry as much as the Slacs do about giving. Finally, UVA already has a 6.2 billion dollar endowment since it agreed to take less from the Commonwealth in exchange for more freedom. It manages itself far better than the Commonwealth ever did.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Do you not THINK before you post? What schools are at the top of the list? The small expensive privates where only the wealthy and scholarship kids can now afford to attend ergo the wealthy donate and the poor graduates do not (especially because their own parents were not in a position to donate to their own schools, if they attended college at all. So what might you expect to be in the lower end if this list? The large publics whose job it is to service the needs of ALL of the students in the state. Simply by definition you are going to have more cost-conscious families ( like ours) who watch every dime in the public universities but that has nothing to do with university spirit or alumni connections. It is also the mission of public universities to turn out new members of the service industry, as UVA does, in the less well-paid careers of nursing, teaching and lower paying government service.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:UVA
Do they really? Is the alumni network strong and supportive? How about the percent of alumni giving? Just asking. (All the parent I know love it because of the in-state tuition, oh, and they were national champs last year in men's basketball)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2018/08/21/grateful-grads-2018-200-colleges-with-the-happiest-most-successful-alumni/#34da262e1a0a
UVA does NOT make the list.
I saw that! I'm guessing the parents of in-state students love it for the price tag, but the students not so much.
Top 15 for "Students Love These Colleges" in Princeton Review:
Vanderbilt
Tulane
Kansas State
Brown
Wisconsin
William & Mary
Lehigh
Virginia Tech
Clemson
Auburn
Emory
Olin
Williams
Wash U
Dayton
Interesting mix.
And only VA has two states on the list. The best STEM school and the best LAC in the state. UVA must be crying.
To be fair, UVA gets more from the state on a per student basis than all but the two HBCUs. JMU gets the least. JMU only gets 56% as much as UVA for a full time equivalent.
State budget and in-state enrollment.
State budget, General Fund appropriations. https://budget.lis.virginia.gov/secretariat/2020/1...Chapter/1/office-of-education/
In State FTE Enrollment: https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/E5B_Report.asp
GF Per in-state FTE looks like this:
Norfolk State University $16,132
Virginia State University $14,719
University of Virginia $10,529
William & Mary $9,453
Virginia Commonwealth University $9,396
Old Dominion University $8,746
University of Mary Washington $8,306
Virginia Tech $8,261
Longwood University $7,987
Radford University $7,746
Christopher Newport University $7,592
George Mason University $6,661
James Madison University $5,896
Try this one. https://budget.lis.virginia.gov/secretariat/2020/1/HB30/Chapter/1/office-of-education/
General Fund does not fund any part of the hospital if you look at the components. It is largely funded by "Higher Education Operating" which is a catchall for tuition, fees, and in this case patient fees. The biggest state benefit to the UVA hospital is that it operates tax free as a non-profit. The thing to look at is General Fund, which is the part coming from state revenues.
I only post this because there is a misconception that UVA doesn't get money from the state. State support for UVA is generous compared to other Virginia higher education institutions. If you compare to other states, Virginia spends on higher education than most.
Well, that's my point. UVA hospital is the best in the state. It can't turn anyone away, so if the Commonwealth is paying UVA for "patient fees" then, yes, of course you could say a lot of money goes to UVA. But you are missing the point about declining funding to the University itself because the University is managing itself so well. Remember that UVA spun itself off in 2005. From wiki "Due to a continual decline in state funding for the university, today only 6 percent of its budget comes from the Commonwealth of Virginia.[48] A Charter initiative was signed into law by then-Governor Mark Warner in 2005, negotiated with the university to have greater autonomy over its own affairs in exchange for accepting this decline in financial support.". In 2005, UVA begun doing its own investing so now has a 9.6 billion dollar endowment. Even with only 6% of its budge coming from the state, it is doing very well.
No. You have missed the point completely. If you strip away the hospital and don't even consider it, UVA (the academic division) gets more per in-state FTE student from the General Fund (i.e. tax revenues) than any other school in the Commonwealth other than Norfolk State and Virginia State. Look at the links above. If you compare it to JMU, for instance, UVA gets $10,529 per in-state FTE from the general fund. JMU gets only $5,896, or only 56% as much per capita as UVA.
People cite this restructuring act and say things like "UVA spun itself off in 2005". That suggests no money from the state and that is completely incorrect as shown above.
Going back to the hospital, patient fees are paid by insurance, out-of-of pocket, and by programs like Medicare and Medicaid. Nothing from the general fund and nothing that is accounted for in the $10,529 cited above. The state's benefit to UVA hospital operations is largely that it is allowed to operate tax exempt. The hospital makes a significant profit and the restructuring act has allowed UVA to use excess funds for other purposes (e.g. the "Strategic Investment Fund").
Sounds like UVA gets to eat their cake and have it too.
Anonymous
05/23/2020 23:47
Subject: Colleges that alums always rave about
You’re right. I meant to type 40.9 billionAnonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Alumni giving is not a good indicator. I went to Harvard Law. I don't give much because a) my children are college-aged and all in expensive schools; b) I pay an obscene amount of money in taxes; c) I have three aged parents DW and I are taking care of; d) we have a SN child who has a lot of unexpected expenses; and e) with a 63 billion dollar endowment Harvard doesn't need my money. Nor does the law school. To make Harvard pay attention for legacies requires six to seven figures which we will never have so that ship has sailed. But your results may vary.
Congratulations on Harvard Law and all, but this conversation (raving about or giving to schools) is really based on where people went to undergraduate. No one ever really expects people to give much money to their law schools (which are factories that charge a lot and subsidize other schools).
I think you reversed number there. Endowment is more like 36 billion (perhaps up to 40B now).
Anonymous
05/23/2020 23:30
Subject: Colleges that alums always rave about
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Alumni giving is not a good indicator. I went to Harvard Law. I don't give much because a) my children are college-aged and all in expensive schools; b) I pay an obscene amount of money in taxes; c) I have three aged parents DW and I are taking care of; d) we have a SN child who has a lot of unexpected expenses; and e) with a 63 billion dollar endowment Harvard doesn't need my money. Nor does the law school. To make Harvard pay attention for legacies requires six to seven figures which we will never have so that ship has sailed. But your results may vary.
Congratulations on Harvard Law and all, but this conversation (raving about or giving to schools) is really based on where people went to undergraduate. No one ever really expects people to give much money to their law schools (which are factories that charge a lot and subsidize other schools).
I'm pretty sure a bunch of people contribute a lot of money to Harvard Law. I also don't think they use that money to subsidize other schools. They'll use the history department to subsidize STEM, but not law to subsidize STEM.
Different model, where a few big donors give a lot vs. widespread giving by loyal alumni. Overall Harvard alumni giving is middle of the pack - not exceptional - for an elite university and I doubt the HLS alumni bring that number up.
Anonymous
05/23/2020 21:17
Subject: Colleges that alums always rave about
Notre Dame, USC, Michigan, Duke...
Anonymous
05/23/2020 21:04
Subject: Colleges that alums always rave about
Holy Cross and W&L.
Anonymous
05/23/2020 17:46
Subject: Colleges that alums always rave about
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The link for general budget doesn’t work and doesn’t tgat grabt support The massive UVA hospital as well?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t think this is correct. Cite please.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:hardly. Please go read the responsible 13:50 above. State universities have a different mission than small private institutions do. Also they are funded by the Commonwealth so don’t need to worry as much as the Slacs do about giving. Finally, UVA already has a 6.2 billion dollar endowment since it agreed to take less from the Commonwealth in exchange for more freedom. It manages itself far better than the Commonwealth ever did.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Do you not THINK before you post? What schools are at the top of the list? The small expensive privates where only the wealthy and scholarship kids can now afford to attend ergo the wealthy donate and the poor graduates do not (especially because their own parents were not in a position to donate to their own schools, if they attended college at all. So what might you expect to be in the lower end if this list? The large publics whose job it is to service the needs of ALL of the students in the state. Simply by definition you are going to have more cost-conscious families ( like ours) who watch every dime in the public universities but that has nothing to do with university spirit or alumni connections. It is also the mission of public universities to turn out new members of the service industry, as UVA does, in the less well-paid careers of nursing, teaching and lower paying government service.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:UVA
Do they really? Is the alumni network strong and supportive? How about the percent of alumni giving? Just asking. (All the parent I know love it because of the in-state tuition, oh, and they were national champs last year in men's basketball)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2018/08/21/grateful-grads-2018-200-colleges-with-the-happiest-most-successful-alumni/#34da262e1a0a
UVA does NOT make the list.
I saw that! I'm guessing the parents of in-state students love it for the price tag, but the students not so much.
Top 15 for "Students Love These Colleges" in Princeton Review:
Vanderbilt
Tulane
Kansas State
Brown
Wisconsin
William & Mary
Lehigh
Virginia Tech
Clemson
Auburn
Emory
Olin
Williams
Wash U
Dayton
Interesting mix.
And only VA has two states on the list. The best STEM school and the best LAC in the state. UVA must be crying.
To be fair, UVA gets more from the state on a per student basis than all but the two HBCUs. JMU gets the least. JMU only gets 56% as much as UVA for a full time equivalent.
State budget and in-state enrollment.
State budget, General Fund appropriations. https://budget.lis.virginia.gov/secretariat/2020/1...Chapter/1/office-of-education/
In State FTE Enrollment: https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/E5B_Report.asp
GF Per in-state FTE looks like this:
Norfolk State University $16,132
Virginia State University $14,719
University of Virginia $10,529
William & Mary $9,453
Virginia Commonwealth University $9,396
Old Dominion University $8,746
University of Mary Washington $8,306
Virginia Tech $8,261
Longwood University $7,987
Radford University $7,746
Christopher Newport University $7,592
George Mason University $6,661
James Madison University $5,896
Try this one. https://budget.lis.virginia.gov/secretariat/2020/1/HB30/Chapter/1/office-of-education/
General Fund does not fund any part of the hospital if you look at the components. It is largely funded by "Higher Education Operating" which is a catchall for tuition, fees, and in this case patient fees. The biggest state benefit to the UVA hospital is that it operates tax free as a non-profit. The thing to look at is General Fund, which is the part coming from state revenues.
I only post this because there is a misconception that UVA doesn't get money from the state. State support for UVA is generous compared to other Virginia higher education institutions. If you compare to other states, Virginia spends on higher education than most.
Well, that's my point. UVA hospital is the best in the state. It can't turn anyone away, so if the Commonwealth is paying UVA for "patient fees" then, yes, of course you could say a lot of money goes to UVA. But you are missing the point about declining funding to the University itself because the University is managing itself so well. Remember that UVA spun itself off in 2005. From wiki "Due to a continual decline in state funding for the university, today only 6 percent of its budget comes from the Commonwealth of Virginia.[48] A Charter initiative was signed into law by then-Governor Mark Warner in 2005, negotiated with the university to have greater autonomy over its own affairs in exchange for accepting this decline in financial support.". In 2005, UVA begun doing its own investing so now has a 9.6 billion dollar endowment. Even with only 6% of its budge coming from the state, it is doing very well.
No. You have missed the point completely. If you strip away the hospital and don't even consider it, UVA (the academic division) gets more per in-state FTE student from the General Fund (i.e. tax revenues) than any other school in the Commonwealth other than Norfolk State and Virginia State. Look at the links above. If you compare it to JMU, for instance, UVA gets $10,529 per in-state FTE from the general fund. JMU gets only $5,896, or only 56% as much per capita as UVA.
People cite this restructuring act and say things like "UVA spun itself off in 2005". That suggests no money from the state and that is completely incorrect as shown above.
Going back to the hospital, patient fees are paid by insurance, out-of-of pocket, and by programs like Medicare and Medicaid. Nothing from the general fund and nothing that is accounted for in the $10,529 cited above. The state's benefit to UVA hospital operations is largely that it is allowed to operate tax exempt. The hospital makes a significant profit and the restructuring act has allowed UVA to use excess funds for other purposes (e.g. the "Strategic Investment Fund").
Sounds like UVA gets to eat their cake and have it too.
The other way the state "benefits" UVA Health (and the other dominant health care systems) is by allowing them to vertically integrate and increase hospital market concentration, thereby decreasing competition, without bringing suit against them. This results in higher prices and less choice. Over 75% of the metro areas in the U.S. now have highly concentrated or very highly concentrated hospital markets, which contributes to the U.S. having the highest health care costs in the world.
Sorry this is off topic, but couldn't let that economics training go to waste.
Anonymous
05/23/2020 16:51
Subject: Colleges that alums always rave about
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Alumni giving is not a good indicator. I went to Harvard Law. I don't give much because a) my children are college-aged and all in expensive schools; b) I pay an obscene amount of money in taxes; c) I have three aged parents DW and I are taking care of; d) we have a SN child who has a lot of unexpected expenses; and e) with a 63 billion dollar endowment Harvard doesn't need my money. Nor does the law school. To make Harvard pay attention for legacies requires six to seven figures which we will never have so that ship has sailed. But your results may vary.
Congratulations on Harvard Law and all, but this conversation (raving about or giving to schools) is really based on where people went to undergraduate. No one ever really expects people to give much money to their law schools (which are factories that charge a lot and subsidize other schools).
I think you reversed number there. Endowment is more like 36 billion (perhaps up to 40B now).
Anonymous
05/23/2020 16:49
Subject: Colleges that alums always rave about
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The link for general budget doesn’t work and doesn’t tgat grabt support The massive UVA hospital as well?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t think this is correct. Cite please.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:hardly. Please go read the responsible 13:50 above. State universities have a different mission than small private institutions do. Also they are funded by the Commonwealth so don’t need to worry as much as the Slacs do about giving. Finally, UVA already has a 6.2 billion dollar endowment since it agreed to take less from the Commonwealth in exchange for more freedom. It manages itself far better than the Commonwealth ever did.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Do you not THINK before you post? What schools are at the top of the list? The small expensive privates where only the wealthy and scholarship kids can now afford to attend ergo the wealthy donate and the poor graduates do not (especially because their own parents were not in a position to donate to their own schools, if they attended college at all. So what might you expect to be in the lower end if this list? The large publics whose job it is to service the needs of ALL of the students in the state. Simply by definition you are going to have more cost-conscious families ( like ours) who watch every dime in the public universities but that has nothing to do with university spirit or alumni connections. It is also the mission of public universities to turn out new members of the service industry, as UVA does, in the less well-paid careers of nursing, teaching and lower paying government service.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:UVA
Do they really? Is the alumni network strong and supportive? How about the percent of alumni giving? Just asking. (All the parent I know love it because of the in-state tuition, oh, and they were national champs last year in men's basketball)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2018/08/21/grateful-grads-2018-200-colleges-with-the-happiest-most-successful-alumni/#34da262e1a0a
UVA does NOT make the list.
I saw that! I'm guessing the parents of in-state students love it for the price tag, but the students not so much.
Top 15 for "Students Love These Colleges" in Princeton Review:
Vanderbilt
Tulane
Kansas State
Brown
Wisconsin
William & Mary
Lehigh
Virginia Tech
Clemson
Auburn
Emory
Olin
Williams
Wash U
Dayton
Interesting mix.
And only VA has two states on the list. The best STEM school and the best LAC in the state. UVA must be crying.
To be fair, UVA gets more from the state on a per student basis than all but the two HBCUs. JMU gets the least. JMU only gets 56% as much as UVA for a full time equivalent.
State budget and in-state enrollment.
State budget, General Fund appropriations. https://budget.lis.virginia.gov/secretariat/2020/1...Chapter/1/office-of-education/
In State FTE Enrollment: https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/E5B_Report.asp
GF Per in-state FTE looks like this:
Norfolk State University $16,132
Virginia State University $14,719
University of Virginia $10,529
William & Mary $9,453
Virginia Commonwealth University $9,396
Old Dominion University $8,746
University of Mary Washington $8,306
Virginia Tech $8,261
Longwood University $7,987
Radford University $7,746
Christopher Newport University $7,592
George Mason University $6,661
James Madison University $5,896
Try this one. https://budget.lis.virginia.gov/secretariat/2020/1/HB30/Chapter/1/office-of-education/
General Fund does not fund any part of the hospital if you look at the components. It is largely funded by "Higher Education Operating" which is a catchall for tuition, fees, and in this case patient fees. The biggest state benefit to the UVA hospital is that it operates tax free as a non-profit. The thing to look at is General Fund, which is the part coming from state revenues.
I only post this because there is a misconception that UVA doesn't get money from the state. State support for UVA is generous compared to other Virginia higher education institutions. If you compare to other states, Virginia spends on higher education than most.
Well, that's my point. UVA hospital is the best in the state. It can't turn anyone away, so if the Commonwealth is paying UVA for "patient fees" then, yes, of course you could say a lot of money goes to UVA. But you are missing the point about declining funding to the University itself because the University is managing itself so well. Remember that UVA spun itself off in 2005. From wiki "Due to a continual decline in state funding for the university, today only 6 percent of its budget comes from the Commonwealth of Virginia.[48] A Charter initiative was signed into law by then-Governor Mark Warner in 2005, negotiated with the university to have greater autonomy over its own affairs in exchange for accepting this decline in financial support.". In 2005, UVA begun doing its own investing so now has a 9.6 billion dollar endowment. Even with only 6% of its budge coming from the state, it is doing very well.
No. You have missed the point completely. If you strip away the hospital and don't even consider it, UVA (the academic division) gets more per in-state FTE student from the General Fund (i.e. tax revenues) than any other school in the Commonwealth other than Norfolk State and Virginia State. Look at the links above. If you compare it to JMU, for instance, UVA gets $10,529 per in-state FTE from the general fund. JMU gets only $5,896, or only 56% as much per capita as UVA.
People cite this restructuring act and say things like "UVA spun itself off in 2005". That suggests no money from the state and that is completely incorrect as shown above.
Going back to the hospital, patient fees are paid by insurance, out-of-of pocket, and by programs like Medicare and Medicaid. Nothing from the general fund and nothing that is accounted for in the $10,529 cited above. The state's benefit to UVA hospital operations is largely that it is allowed to operate tax exempt. The hospital makes a significant profit and the restructuring act has allowed UVA to use excess funds for other purposes (e.g. the "Strategic Investment Fund").
Sounds like UVA gets to eat their cake and have it too.
Anonymous
05/23/2020 16:48
Subject: Colleges that alums always rave about
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Alumni giving is not a good indicator. I went to Harvard Law. I don't give much because a) my children are college-aged and all in expensive schools; b) I pay an obscene amount of money in taxes; c) I have three aged parents DW and I are taking care of; d) we have a SN child who has a lot of unexpected expenses; and e) with a 63 billion dollar endowment Harvard doesn't need my money. Nor does the law school. To make Harvard pay attention for legacies requires six to seven figures which we will never have so that ship has sailed. But your results may vary.
Congratulations on Harvard Law and all, but this conversation (raving about or giving to schools) is really based on where people went to undergraduate. No one ever really expects people to give much money to their law schools (which are factories that charge a lot and subsidize other schools).
I'm pretty sure a bunch of people contribute a lot of money to Harvard Law. I also don't think they use that money to subsidize other schools. They'll use the history department to subsidize STEM, but not law to subsidize STEM.
Anonymous
05/23/2020 16:17
Subject: Colleges that alums always rave about
Anonymous wrote:Alumni giving is not a good indicator. I went to Harvard Law. I don't give much because a) my children are college-aged and all in expensive schools; b) I pay an obscene amount of money in taxes; c) I have three aged parents DW and I are taking care of; d) we have a SN child who has a lot of unexpected expenses; and e) with a 63 billion dollar endowment Harvard doesn't need my money. Nor does the law school. To make Harvard pay attention for legacies requires six to seven figures which we will never have so that ship has sailed. But your results may vary.
Congratulations on Harvard Law and all, but this conversation (raving about or giving to schools) is really based on where people went to undergraduate. No one ever really expects people to give much money to their law schools (which are factories that charge a lot and subsidize other schools).
Anonymous
05/23/2020 16:16
Subject: Colleges that alums always rave about
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The link for general budget doesn’t work and doesn’t tgat grabt support The massive UVA hospital as well?Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I don’t think this is correct. Cite please.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:hardly. Please go read the responsible 13:50 above. State universities have a different mission than small private institutions do. Also they are funded by the Commonwealth so don’t need to worry as much as the Slacs do about giving. Finally, UVA already has a 6.2 billion dollar endowment since it agreed to take less from the Commonwealth in exchange for more freedom. It manages itself far better than the Commonwealth ever did.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Do you not THINK before you post? What schools are at the top of the list? The small expensive privates where only the wealthy and scholarship kids can now afford to attend ergo the wealthy donate and the poor graduates do not (especially because their own parents were not in a position to donate to their own schools, if they attended college at all. So what might you expect to be in the lower end if this list? The large publics whose job it is to service the needs of ALL of the students in the state. Simply by definition you are going to have more cost-conscious families ( like ours) who watch every dime in the public universities but that has nothing to do with university spirit or alumni connections. It is also the mission of public universities to turn out new members of the service industry, as UVA does, in the less well-paid careers of nursing, teaching and lower paying government service.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:UVA
Do they really? Is the alumni network strong and supportive? How about the percent of alumni giving? Just asking. (All the parent I know love it because of the in-state tuition, oh, and they were national champs last year in men's basketball)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2018/08/21/grateful-grads-2018-200-colleges-with-the-happiest-most-successful-alumni/#34da262e1a0a
UVA does NOT make the list.
I saw that! I'm guessing the parents of in-state students love it for the price tag, but the students not so much.
Top 15 for "Students Love These Colleges" in Princeton Review:
Vanderbilt
Tulane
Kansas State
Brown
Wisconsin
William & Mary
Lehigh
Virginia Tech
Clemson
Auburn
Emory
Olin
Williams
Wash U
Dayton
Interesting mix.
And only VA has two states on the list. The best STEM school and the best LAC in the state. UVA must be crying.
To be fair, UVA gets more from the state on a per student basis than all but the two HBCUs. JMU gets the least. JMU only gets 56% as much as UVA for a full time equivalent.
State budget and in-state enrollment.
State budget, General Fund appropriations. https://budget.lis.virginia.gov/secretariat/2020/1...Chapter/1/office-of-education/
In State FTE Enrollment: https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/E5B_Report.asp
GF Per in-state FTE looks like this:
Norfolk State University $16,132
Virginia State University $14,719
University of Virginia $10,529
William & Mary $9,453
Virginia Commonwealth University $9,396
Old Dominion University $8,746
University of Mary Washington $8,306
Virginia Tech $8,261
Longwood University $7,987
Radford University $7,746
Christopher Newport University $7,592
George Mason University $6,661
James Madison University $5,896
Try this one. https://budget.lis.virginia.gov/secretariat/2020/1/HB30/Chapter/1/office-of-education/
General Fund does not fund any part of the hospital if you look at the components. It is largely funded by "Higher Education Operating" which is a catchall for tuition, fees, and in this case patient fees. The biggest state benefit to the UVA hospital is that it operates tax free as a non-profit. The thing to look at is General Fund, which is the part coming from state revenues.
I only post this because there is a misconception that UVA doesn't get money from the state. State support for UVA is generous compared to other Virginia higher education institutions. If you compare to other states, Virginia spends on higher education than most.
Well, that's my point. UVA hospital is the best in the state. It can't turn anyone away, so if the Commonwealth is paying UVA for "patient fees" then, yes, of course you could say a lot of money goes to UVA. But you are missing the point about declining funding to the University itself because the University is managing itself so well. Remember that UVA spun itself off in 2005. From wiki "Due to a continual decline in state funding for the university, today only 6 percent of its budget comes from the Commonwealth of Virginia.[48] A Charter initiative was signed into law by then-Governor Mark Warner in 2005, negotiated with the university to have greater autonomy over its own affairs in exchange for accepting this decline in financial support.". In 2005, UVA begun doing its own investing so now has a 9.6 billion dollar endowment. Even with only 6% of its budge coming from the state, it is doing very well.
No. You have missed the point completely. If you strip away the hospital and don't even consider it, UVA (the academic division) gets more per in-state FTE student from the General Fund (i.e. tax revenues) than any other school in the Commonwealth other than Norfolk State and Virginia State. Look at the links above. If you compare it to JMU, for instance, UVA gets $10,529 per in-state FTE from the general fund. JMU gets only $5,896, or only 56% as much per capita as UVA.
People cite this restructuring act and say things like "UVA spun itself off in 2005". That suggests no money from the state and that is completely incorrect as shown above.
Going back to the hospital, patient fees are paid by insurance, out-of-of pocket, and by programs like Medicare and Medicaid. Nothing from the general fund and nothing that is accounted for in the $10,529 cited above. The state's benefit to UVA hospital operations is largely that it is allowed to operate tax exempt. The hospital makes a significant profit and the restructuring act has allowed UVA to use excess funds for other purposes (e.g. the "Strategic Investment Fund").
Anonymous
05/23/2020 15:21
Subject: Colleges that alums always rave about
^^But forgot to mention the most important part about Harvard Law. It did change my life profoundly and the people I met are friends to this day, so I'm definitely a booster. I had a great time in law school, which most HLS grads don't say. But I just can't afford to give at this point in my life. I may leave some in my will.