Anonymous wrote:You know the drug that Trump is touting as a possible treatment for coronavirus? Without evidence and over the warnings of his health officials?

Nigeria is seeing poisonings as people take it in a bid to ward off the virus:


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-21/nigeria-reports-chloroquine-poisonings-after-trump-praised-drug

And people who actually need those drugs for what they are meant for aren't able to get it because there has been a run on them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

so you just don't care that people are being turned away from hospitals because there aren't enough beds. And those beds are NOT being taken by people with a cough. The doctors would not allow that. It is a problem when the number of people who need ventilators is larger than then number available. How can you not see this?

I do. Italy is particularly bad for a number of reasons: average age, tactile culture, air pollution and attendant respiratory problems. That being said, there is still no evidence that “more people than usual” are dying because of this in Italy. Much of the same holds for Wuhan and Iran. You cannot apply that to the rest of the world. Why is the media not using Germany as a benchmark?

Because German deaths are the epitome of fake news. Germany does not do post mortem testing and routinely attributes deaths to an underlying condition instead of coronavirus.

Every time a Reddit post appears on Germany, all the Germans pile in about how misleading their death statistics are.

Switzerland is very similar. It has the second highest per capita rate in the world after Italy (excluding the tiny nation states) and the death rate is also relatively low (but not as low as Germany). It also has a very deliberate policy of prioritizing treatment of Swiss nationals over foreign legal residents despite being home to several international organizations, as well as large pharmaceutical companies that have multinational work forces.

They’re all off the mark because there is no “mark” currently, so it becomes a matter of perspective. There is no uniform
methodology between the data sets. More and more experts are coming out saying that Corona virus should not be blamed as the cause of these incremental deaths. Why run with the boogeyman scariest sounding data set and methodology? Many have already said that Italy is not a good comp because of the poor air quality and the old age. China, South Korea, Japan are all back on the path to normal life...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

so you just don't care that people are being turned away from hospitals because there aren't enough beds. And those beds are NOT being taken by people with a cough. The doctors would not allow that. It is a problem when the number of people who need ventilators is larger than then number available. How can you not see this?

I do. Italy is particularly bad for a number of reasons: average age, tactile culture, air pollution and attendant respiratory problems. That being said, there is still no evidence that “more people than usual” are dying because of this in Italy. Much of the same holds for Wuhan and Iran. You cannot apply that to the rest of the world. Why is the media not using Germany as a benchmark?

Because German deaths are the epitome of fake news. Germany does not do post mortem testing and routinely attributes deaths to an underlying condition instead of coronavirus.

Every time a Reddit post appears on Germany, all the Germans pile in about how misleading their death statistics are.

Switzerland is very similar. It has the second highest per capita rate in the world after Italy (excluding the tiny nation states) and the death rate is also relatively low (but not as low as Germany). It also has a very deliberate policy of prioritizing treatment of Swiss nationals over foreign legal residents despite being home to several international organizations, as well as large pharmaceutical companies that have multinational work forces.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

Can you provide data to back it up? Since this is a new disease, those are all new deaths. You need to carry a form to go out buy groceries in Italy. Without this type of lockdown, the number of deaths could be even higher. The death rate for Covid-19 is 1.3% for USA and 8.5% for Italy. The flu has a death rate of 0.1%.

New disease does not necessarily mean new death (i.e. death that would not have happened but for corona) because there are confounders. In one Italian study 99% of deaths were patients that had one or more comorbidities.

The rates you cite are far too high. Remember, only the symptomatic and worst cases are even being tested right now due to short supply of tests. There are plenty of people walking around with CV who have not been tested for it and probably never will be. Positive tests are over represented currently, and probably rightly so.

These are released weekly. Nothing is airtight with ANY data set coming out right now, because of the mania, but this does give some pause.

https://www.euromomo.eu/index.html

The death rate is from the official numbers released. We have enough sample size -- 20,000 for US and 48,000 for Italy -- that the death rate calculated has a high confidence of being accurate. If we have more testing, we will also have more deaths that were attributed to 'flu' or 'pneumonia'. There is no dispute Covid-19 is more contagious and deadly than regular flu. The key failure for the US government is the leadership believed this is just another glorified flu and wasted two months to not act.

Yes and the “official” numbers released all have massive problems and biases. Don’t appeal to authority. You are acting like these are data sets from journals in peer reviewed articles lol, please. Everything is a rush job right now.

The actual fatality of COVID 19 vis a vis common flu actually IS under dispute. More commentators and analyses are coming out crunching numbers and questioning the mainstream narrative.

This is real life. We make decisions on the fly with messy data. Just like war. In real life, we are generals, not historians. We don't have the luxury of waiting for better information.

ALL of the evidence is that this is more deadly than the flu. All of it. Even accounting for the uncertainties (there are methods for dealing with that). But even with years of well-established data, many people still don't get a flu shot. Why should this be different?

You can say it as many times as you like, that does not make it true. And even if so, the question remains whether it will be worth this MASSIVE overreaction. I wager the answer is no. And it will become increasingly clear as time passes. The need to take ANY kind of action is not the same as the need to take THIS action. We have let fear win.

Swear to god, some people just like being contrary.

It’s not a matter of being contrary. It’s a matter of calibrating the response to the scale of the threat. I fear we have badly missed it here and will be paying for it for a while. No one is saying this isn’t serious.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

Can you provide data to back it up? Since this is a new disease, those are all new deaths. You need to carry a form to go out buy groceries in Italy. Without this type of lockdown, the number of deaths could be even higher. The death rate for Covid-19 is 1.3% for USA and 8.5% for Italy. The flu has a death rate of 0.1%.

New disease does not necessarily mean new death (i.e. death that would not have happened but for corona) because there are confounders. In one Italian study 99% of deaths were patients that had one or more comorbidities.

The rates you cite are far too high. Remember, only the symptomatic and worst cases are even being tested right now due to short supply of tests. There are plenty of people walking around with CV who have not been tested for it and probably never will be. Positive tests are over represented currently, and probably rightly so.

These are released weekly. Nothing is airtight with ANY data set coming out right now, because of the mania, but this does give some pause.

https://www.euromomo.eu/index.html

The death rate is from the official numbers released. We have enough sample size -- 20,000 for US and 48,000 for Italy -- that the death rate calculated has a high confidence of being accurate. If we have more testing, we will also have more deaths that were attributed to 'flu' or 'pneumonia'. There is no dispute Covid-19 is more contagious and deadly than regular flu. The key failure for the US government is the leadership believed this is just another glorified flu and wasted two months to not act.

Yes and the “official” numbers released all have massive problems and biases. Don’t appeal to authority. You are acting like these are data sets from journals in peer reviewed articles lol, please. Everything is a rush job right now.

The actual fatality of COVID 19 vis a vis common flu actually IS under dispute. More commentators and analyses are coming out crunching numbers and questioning the mainstream narrative.

This is real life. We make decisions on the fly with messy data. Just like war. In real life, we are generals, not historians. We don't have the luxury of waiting for better information.

ALL of the evidence is that this is more deadly than the flu. All of it. Even accounting for the uncertainties (there are methods for dealing with that). But even with years of well-established data, many people still don't get a flu shot. Why should this be different?

You can say it as many times as you like, that does not make it true. And even if so, the question remains whether it will be worth this MASSIVE overreaction. I wager the answer is no. And it will become increasingly clear as time passes. The need to take ANY kind of action is not the same as the need to take THIS action. We have let fear win.

Swear to god, some people just like being contrary.

+1000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

Can you provide data to back it up? Since this is a new disease, those are all new deaths. You need to carry a form to go out buy groceries in Italy. Without this type of lockdown, the number of deaths could be even higher. The death rate for Covid-19 is 1.3% for USA and 8.5% for Italy. The flu has a death rate of 0.1%.

New disease does not necessarily mean new death (i.e. death that would not have happened but for corona) because there are confounders. In one Italian study 99% of deaths were patients that had one or more comorbidities.

The rates you cite are far too high. Remember, only the symptomatic and worst cases are even being tested right now due to short supply of tests. There are plenty of people walking around with CV who have not been tested for it and probably never will be. Positive tests are over represented currently, and probably rightly so.

These are released weekly. Nothing is airtight with ANY data set coming out right now, because of the mania, but this does give some pause.

https://www.euromomo.eu/index.html

The death rate is from the official numbers released. We have enough sample size -- 20,000 for US and 48,000 for Italy -- that the death rate calculated has a high confidence of being accurate. If we have more testing, we will also have more deaths that were attributed to 'flu' or 'pneumonia'. There is no dispute Covid-19 is more contagious and deadly than regular flu. The key failure for the US government is the leadership believed this is just another glorified flu and wasted two months to not act.

Yes and the “official” numbers released all have massive problems and biases. Don’t appeal to authority. You are acting like these are data sets from journals in peer reviewed articles lol, please. Everything is a rush job right now.

The actual fatality of COVID 19 vis a vis common flu actually IS under dispute. More commentators and analyses are coming out crunching numbers and questioning the mainstream narrative.

This is real life. We make decisions on the fly with messy data. Just like war. In real life, we are generals, not historians. We don't have the luxury of waiting for better information.

ALL of the evidence is that this is more deadly than the flu. All of it. Even accounting for the uncertainties (there are methods for dealing with that). But even with years of well-established data, many people still don't get a flu shot. Why should this be different?

You can say it as many times as you like, that does not make it true. And even if so, the question remains whether it will be worth this MASSIVE overreaction. I wager the answer is no. And it will become increasingly clear as time passes. The need to take ANY kind of action is not the same as the need to take THIS action. We have let fear win.

Swear to god, some people just like being contrary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know the drug that Trump is touting as a possible treatment for coronavirus? Without evidence and over the warnings of his health officials?

Nigeria is seeing poisonings as people take it in a bid to ward off the virus:


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-21/nigeria-reports-chloroquine-poisonings-after-trump-praised-drug

Chlorquinine is an older anti-malarial that isn't used much anymore because of the severe side effects. Blindness is better than death, yes, but it's not a drug I would take without eye tests and other medical supervision.

I read the main reason it isn’t used much anymore is because of adaptation of malaria strains. Agree with you re: medical supervision.

Anonymous wrote:You know the drug that Trump is touting as a possible treatment for coronavirus? Without evidence and over the warnings of his health officials?

Nigeria is seeing poisonings as people take it in a bid to ward off the virus:


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-21/nigeria-reports-chloroquine-poisonings-after-trump-praised-drug

Chlorquinine is an older anti-malarial that isn't used much anymore because of the severe side effects. Blindness is better than death, yes, but it's not a drug I would take without eye tests and other medical supervision.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

Can you provide data to back it up? Since this is a new disease, those are all new deaths. You need to carry a form to go out buy groceries in Italy. Without this type of lockdown, the number of deaths could be even higher. The death rate for Covid-19 is 1.3% for USA and 8.5% for Italy. The flu has a death rate of 0.1%.

New disease does not necessarily mean new death (i.e. death that would not have happened but for corona) because there are confounders. In one Italian study 99% of deaths were patients that had one or more comorbidities.

The rates you cite are far too high. Remember, only the symptomatic and worst cases are even being tested right now due to short supply of tests. There are plenty of people walking around with CV who have not been tested for it and probably never will be. Positive tests are over represented currently, and probably rightly so.

These are released weekly. Nothing is airtight with ANY data set coming out right now, because of the mania, but this does give some pause.

https://www.euromomo.eu/index.html

The death rate is from the official numbers released. We have enough sample size -- 20,000 for US and 48,000 for Italy -- that the death rate calculated has a high confidence of being accurate. If we have more testing, we will also have more deaths that were attributed to 'flu' or 'pneumonia'. There is no dispute Covid-19 is more contagious and deadly than regular flu. The key failure for the US government is the leadership believed this is just another glorified flu and wasted two months to not act.

Yes and the “official” numbers released all have massive problems and biases. Don’t appeal to authority. You are acting like these are data sets from journals in peer reviewed articles lol, please. Everything is a rush job right now.

The actual fatality of COVID 19 vis a vis common flu actually IS under dispute. More commentators and analyses are coming out crunching numbers and questioning the mainstream narrative.

This is real life. We make decisions on the fly with messy data. Just like war. In real life, we are generals, not historians. We don't have the luxury of waiting for better information.

ALL of the evidence is that this is more deadly than the flu. All of it. Even accounting for the uncertainties (there are methods for dealing with that). But even with years of well-established data, many people still don't get a flu shot. Why should this be different?

You can say it as many times as you like, that does not make it true. And even if so, the question remains whether it will be worth this MASSIVE overreaction. I wager the answer is no. And it will become increasingly clear as time passes. The need to take ANY kind of action is not the same as the need to take THIS action. We have let fear win.

You can say the opposite as many times as you like, but that doesn't make it not true. The reality of life is that we always have limited data and a range of actions from which to choose. We won't know if what we do is an underreaction or an overreaction until after its all over. Even then, there will be disputes because we can't measure lives saved. This is true in EVERY situation in life, even more so in matters of life and death. You personally are wagering no, but most of the people with real responsibility are wagering yes.

What you can do now is make your own quantitative predictions about the future and see how close you are. That's a lot more useful than predicting how "we" will feel two months from now. Because I guarantee "we" won't feel the same way no matter what happens.

Anonymous wrote:Looks like we'll never know how many people actually have it, because we simply don't have enough tests to find out.

From WaPo:

A new message in hard-hit areas: Don’t get tested

Health officials in New York, California and other hard-hit parts of the country are restricting coronavirus testing to health-care workers and people who are hospitalized, saying the battle to contain the virus is lost and we are moving into a new phase of the pandemic response.

As cases spike sharply in those places, they are hunkering down for an onslaught and directing scarce resources where they are needed most to save people’s lives. Instead of encouraging broad testing of the public, they’re focused on conserving masks, ventilators, intensive care beds — and on getting still-limited tests to health-care workers and the most vulnerable.

Thanks. This just bolsters my point about massive skews in the data sets re: fatality rate.

Anonymous wrote:You know the drug that Trump is touting as a possible treatment for coronavirus? Without evidence and over the warnings of his health officials?

Nigeria is seeing poisonings as people take it in a bid to ward off the virus:


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-21/nigeria-reports-chloroquine-poisonings-after-trump-praised-drug

I believe this is from self medicating though, not with the advice and instructions from a doctor on dosage etc. I ran out of Bloomberg articles for the month

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

Can you provide data to back it up? Since this is a new disease, those are all new deaths. You need to carry a form to go out buy groceries in Italy. Without this type of lockdown, the number of deaths could be even higher. The death rate for Covid-19 is 1.3% for USA and 8.5% for Italy. The flu has a death rate of 0.1%.

New disease does not necessarily mean new death (i.e. death that would not have happened but for corona) because there are confounders. In one Italian study 99% of deaths were patients that had one or more comorbidities.

The rates you cite are far too high. Remember, only the symptomatic and worst cases are even being tested right now due to short supply of tests. There are plenty of people walking around with CV who have not been tested for it and probably never will be. Positive tests are over represented currently, and probably rightly so.

These are released weekly. Nothing is airtight with ANY data set coming out right now, because of the mania, but this does give some pause.

https://www.euromomo.eu/index.html

The death rate is from the official numbers released. We have enough sample size -- 20,000 for US and 48,000 for Italy -- that the death rate calculated has a high confidence of being accurate. If we have more testing, we will also have more deaths that were attributed to 'flu' or 'pneumonia'. There is no dispute Covid-19 is more contagious and deadly than regular flu. The key failure for the US government is the leadership believed this is just another glorified flu and wasted two months to not act.

Yes and the “official” numbers released all have massive problems and biases. Don’t appeal to authority. You are acting like these are data sets from journals in peer reviewed articles lol, please. Everything is a rush job right now.

The actual fatality of COVID 19 vis a vis common flu actually IS under dispute. More commentators and analyses are coming out crunching numbers and questioning the mainstream narrative.

This is real life. We make decisions on the fly with messy data. Just like war. In real life, we are generals, not historians. We don't have the luxury of waiting for better information.

ALL of the evidence is that this is more deadly than the flu. All of it. Even accounting for the uncertainties (there are methods for dealing with that). But even with years of well-established data, many people still don't get a flu shot. Why should this be different?

You can say it as many times as you like, that does not make it true. And even if so, the question remains whether it will be worth this MASSIVE overreaction. I wager the answer is no. And it will become increasingly clear as time passes. The need to take ANY kind of action is not the same as the need to take THIS action. We have let fear win.

Looks like we'll never know how many people actually have it, because we simply don't have enough tests to find out.

From WaPo:

A new message in hard-hit areas: Don’t get tested

Health officials in New York, California and other hard-hit parts of the country are restricting coronavirus testing to health-care workers and people who are hospitalized, saying the battle to contain the virus is lost and we are moving into a new phase of the pandemic response.

As cases spike sharply in those places, they are hunkering down for an onslaught and directing scarce resources where they are needed most to save people’s lives. Instead of encouraging broad testing of the public, they’re focused on conserving masks, ventilators, intensive care beds — and on getting still-limited tests to health-care workers and the most vulnerable.

You know the drug that Trump is touting as a possible treatment for coronavirus? Without evidence and over the warnings of his health officials?

Nigeria is seeing poisonings as people take it in a bid to ward off the virus:


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-21/nigeria-reports-chloroquine-poisonings-after-trump-praised-drug

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:http://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/

Virginia data.
1% hospitalized.
2 deaths (you can go to press releases and find more details)

What isn’t in the numbers is the 4-6 weeks spent in ICU on a ventilator.

3/21 stats: 152 cases. 25 hospitalized. How is that 1%?

Agree. The current statistics in Virginia are 16% hospitalized and 1% mortality rate. (In Italy, the mortality rate for those in critical condition is 50%, although I don't know if that is the same in other countries.)