Anonymous
10/02/2019 09:19
Subject: Re:Harsh Reality for your Beloved Soccer Player
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
I have two kids playing soccer in college right now with scholarships, one in D1, and I can tell you no local coaches thought anything of either of them at U12--they were still playing on their club's B team with the better coach at that age. They didn't even get selected for district ODP at U12. I noticed a difference, and sure, maybe a different coach could have picked them out, but none of the ones who saw them thought they were anything special so I have my reservations about your theory. Maybe you are the one coach who would have seen their potential at that age.
As a parent with a couple kids playing soccer in college whose been through the whole youth soccer cycle--if your kid is playing soccer for a scholarship and not for the love of the game you're wasting their time and yours. If your reasons are financial put the thousands you spend on elite soccer each season into a college fund and you'll be much better off. I know multiple players who chose to play club soccer in college or dropped off the team after the first year because when they got there they realized they just didn't love it that much.
College soccer here is miserable. Terrible coaching with too many games crammed into too short of a season. At the end of the season half the team is nursing overuse injuries if they're lucky enough to escape actual injuries. If they got good coaching as a youth player and really understand the game and how to play it--college soccer will probably make them dumber not smarter. With a handful of exceptions it's pretty much high school soccer at a faster pace. They ones that realized they didn't want it that bad and chose to play club or do something else are the lucky ones. Please don't push your kids into that unless they are so passionate they can survive four years of that without losing their passion. The vast majority of seniors I have talked to don't want to ever touch a ball again after they graduate. Hopefully after some time away from the game they'll come back around to it, but if you're pushing your kid to play college soccer that's the reality of what you're pushing them into.
I believe you are referencing my theory, which I think you and the Andi Sullivan poster misunderstand. In no way am I claiming that the average coach can predict which U12 or U13 player will make it to college or the pros--even generously compensated pro scouts at the world's top clubs have a poor track record with this, which is in no way surprising given how many things have to line up for a kid to make it to and at those levels. What most coaches can do is assess which kids do not have the baseline athletic ability to play at a high level. Puberty does of course make a big difference in kids' athletic abilities, but it almost never will make a massive difference for a kid who has terrible balance and no coordination. Some kids are just not athletes no matter how much they may enjoy the game. This is very different from a coach saying your kid, or mine, or young Andi Sullivan is "nothing special". By that they could mean that they don't like the way the kid plays for any number of reasons, including that they prefer big fast players to small technical ones (or vice versa), that the kid doesn't fit the coach's system, or that other, flashier players catch their eye more for whatever reason. Every kid who has played in college or beyond has had a coach tell him or her that they think the kid is overrated (at least all the ones I know have had this happen to them).
I too have a kid playing D1, and while I wouldn't say all of college soccer is uniformly miserable, there are huge structural problems with the way it is set up. I absolutely support the idea of a 10 month season, and hope that the NCAA someday changes the rules to permit it.
If all you're saying is that some kids aren't great athletes and never will be... well duh. I have two kids who play soccer. One is on a travel team and a good general athlete. (Although he's tiny, and not a standout, and he has no desire to do all the extra work to be elite.) The other one... God bless her... she tries so hard. She's so focused and hard working at practice. But she simply has no inherent coordination or athletic ability. I could have told you at age 5 that she wouldn't be a college athlete (except for maybe a coxswain or something...) Literally anyone who watcher her play for any length of time could have said that. So I'm not sure I really get your point....
Anonymous
10/02/2019 09:07
Subject: Re:Harsh Reality for your Beloved Soccer Player
NOVASoccerCoach wrote:Ok, OP here. This has quickly gotten out of hand.
1. USWNT players are EXTREMELY TECHNICAL and freakishly athletic.
2. This thread was made because I hate seeing parents push their kids for their own vicarious aspirations. If your kid wants to play D1, ask them or even better, let them tell you. Let your kid enjoy soccer and see how far they want to go with it. Too many parents have these ECNL and D1 aspirations for their kid and their kid just wants to play!
That's pretty much it. It doesn't need to be anymore complicated than that. If you have any questions about development and your player, ask in the AMA thread I have.
I am a former female competitive soccer player with many top players in my family.
#2 is so on point. These parents worrying about college soccer in the young kid years are ridiculous. I was a player on a team #1 in the Nation. I was recognized by scouts, etc. I had played since K. By the time I was 16, I knew I did not want to play in college. I loved the sport, but was ready to move on to other things. I was a biochemistry major with a minor in partying and enjoying my social life. About 75% of players on my team went on to play in college. A few even in a different sport---the goalie basketball, etc.
IF you had asked me at U12, I would have said I was going to be the next female Pele or Cryuff. My family was all about soccer. But, interests change with age---even for kids that are 100% passionate.
As my brother who was a pro player says, they just need to 'love the ball'. As a parent, you can't force it. You can't get caught up in vicariously living through your kids or if you see your kid is a good player at 11-years old seeing flashes of National team and pro career in your eyes. It has to come 100% from the kid.
My biggest job as a sports parent is to shelter my kids from all of the hoopla and serious craziness in the sport (much more than when I was a kid) and keep them having fun. Keep them having fun did mean moving from a Club filled with a bunch of lunatics fighting over color team placements and jockeying for favors which trickled down to the atmosphere and player attitude and behavior. It also meant looking to them. My younger kid who is probably better than his older sibling and touted as a 'star' by coaches---we downplay this to him--wanted to give it up and play basketball at 11. He was just an ok basketball player and won't have the height. I said 'go for it' even though I was cringing inside because soccer was our family sport and he was much more talented in soccer than basketball. After a year or so, HE decided he wanted to re-commit to soccer and he was a whirlwind ever since with a renewed passion. I almost think it was a test for him to see what we would do if he gave up the sport and didn't follow his older sibling. Once he saw he was in charge and didn't feel pressured to please us it was like a weight was lifted off of his shoulders.
I always tell my kids I don't care if they play. They need to choose what they love and when it stops being fun they don't have to do it anymore. I see far too many kids hanging onto the sport and looking to the sidelines because they are trying to please their parents. The parents will tell you 'oh but the kid loves playing for 2 teams and going to practice every day of the week[', but many of them look dead in the eyes by age 13.
Anonymous
10/01/2019 22:24
Subject: Re:Harsh Reality for your Beloved Soccer Player
Anonymous wrote:
She is technical enough but she is not know for it. Heath for example is on another level. Here are the FIFA skills ratings between Morgan and Heath:
[url]https://www.fifaindex.com/player/226301/alex-morgan/fifa19/[/url]
https://www.fifaindex.com/player/226330/tobin-heath/
Lets stop the fantasy that a kid can pick up soccer at 12 and become Alex Morgan. She is an outlier and even with her athleticism she has several short comings.
Are you seriously relying on video game information for your argument...
They are all super technical at this level, you just don’t think so because you can’t judge the speed of play - it is very fast BTW. Relative speed is tough for people to grasp...
I love it when DCUM posters critique top soccer players like Morgan and Messi and Ronaldo and talk about "short comings". It always makes me laugh.
Anonymous
10/01/2019 16:16
Subject: Re:Harsh Reality for your Beloved Soccer Player
Seems like this thread should be renamed "NOVA Soccer Coach Blather"
Anonymous
10/01/2019 16:10
Subject: Re:Harsh Reality for your Beloved Soccer Player
She is technical enough but she is not know for it. Heath for example is on another level. Here are the FIFA skills ratings between Morgan and Heath:
[url]https://www.fifaindex.com/player/226301/alex-morgan/fifa19/[/url]
https://www.fifaindex.com/player/226330/tobin-heath/
Lets stop the fantasy that a kid can pick up soccer at 12 and become Alex Morgan. She is an outlier and even with her athleticism she has several short comings.
Are you seriously relying on video game information for your argument...
They are all super technical at this level, you just don’t think so because you can’t judge the speed of play - it is very fast BTW. Relative speed is tough for people to grasp...
Anonymous
10/01/2019 15:59
Subject: Re:Harsh Reality for your Beloved Soccer Player
Anonymous wrote:NOVASoccerCoach wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Coach here (OP)
Geez this thread took off. My response to some of the comments.
1. If you are in ECNL, of course you have a D1 chance. ECNL teams usually are the best select of the club. Usually these are the most athletic/technical/intelligent players (hopefully). I never said ECNL player to D1 is rare. My main point was by U12 if your player isn't at the appropriate technical level it's going to be difficult.
2. There are a lot of freak athletes, you'd be surprised how many there are across the nation.
3. I agree with the anecdotes about academics. However, if your player would like a career in soccer (coaching, admin, etc)in the future, playing college ball gives them a lot of connections and credible resume
No there aren't that many athletic freaks to fill 25% of D1 rosters. They are definitely above average, on the whole, but not years in advance of others. You are thinking of kids who hit their growth spurts early. Many of these at the u12 age you are thinking of (for girls) actually stop growing sooner than the delayed growth kids. Kids who enter menarche sooner (and therefore have an earlier growth spurt) end up smaller than average by the time the group is fully mature.
Coaches who size up kids at 11 with respect to their ability to make a D1 roster (or national/pro team) are part of the problem in this country, not part of the solution.
The coach is talking about technical ability at U12, not size. At U13 ECNL and DA rosters are filled with early growers who are done growing at 12/13. They are living their glory days right now because the delayed growth players that make it will end up bigger, faster and stronger and will take their spots by graduation and beyond. However, if those late growers also lack skill at this age they probably won't make it playing to their growth spurt. Or will not have the experience with the ECNL or DA level speed of play to compete at the top level in college.
Technical ability is easily gained from 12-18. Alex Morgan is an example of that; anyone can increase their technical abilities by practicing at home every day, religiously.
Again, based on experience, there is very little correlation between 9-11 yo ability and 19 yo ability. Many of the 9-11 stars burn out, and many "uncoordinated" 9-11's shine after they have fully matured.
The fact that someone is attempting to make final determinations on a 10 or 11 year old kid is the problem here.
Technical ability is not easier to gain from 12-18. Alex Morgan does not prove that to be the case. She has never been accused of being a technical player, she is an athlete who can simply beast and that is about it. What Alex Morgan has you cannot coach. There are other players on that team far more technical than Morgan is and all of them demonstrated that technical ability at much younger ages than 12.
Ok, come on. Alex Morgan is extremely technical and extremely athletic. To play at that level you've got to be extremely technical. Being technical doesn't mean you're just good at dribbling (Btw Alex is an excellent dribbler). Come on now....
She is technical enough but she is not know for it. Heath for example is on another level. Here are the FIFA skills ratings between Morgan and Heath:
https://www.fifaindex.com/player/226301/alex-morgan/fifa19/
https://www.fifaindex.com/player/226330/tobin-heath/
Lets stop the fantasy that a kid can pick up soccer at 12 and become Alex Morgan. She is an outlier and even with her athleticism she has several short comings.
It’s obviously not a fantasy, she did it. Others can too.
Anonymous
10/01/2019 15:35
Subject: Re:Harsh Reality for your Beloved Soccer Player
NOVASoccerCoach wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Coach here (OP)
Geez this thread took off. My response to some of the comments.
1. If you are in ECNL, of course you have a D1 chance. ECNL teams usually are the best select of the club. Usually these are the most athletic/technical/intelligent players (hopefully). I never said ECNL player to D1 is rare. My main point was by U12 if your player isn't at the appropriate technical level it's going to be difficult.
2. There are a lot of freak athletes, you'd be surprised how many there are across the nation.
3. I agree with the anecdotes about academics. However, if your player would like a career in soccer (coaching, admin, etc)in the future, playing college ball gives them a lot of connections and credible resume
No there aren't that many athletic freaks to fill 25% of D1 rosters. They are definitely above average, on the whole, but not years in advance of others. You are thinking of kids who hit their growth spurts early. Many of these at the u12 age you are thinking of (for girls) actually stop growing sooner than the delayed growth kids. Kids who enter menarche sooner (and therefore have an earlier growth spurt) end up smaller than average by the time the group is fully mature.
Coaches who size up kids at 11 with respect to their ability to make a D1 roster (or national/pro team) are part of the problem in this country, not part of the solution.
The coach is talking about technical ability at U12, not size. At U13 ECNL and DA rosters are filled with early growers who are done growing at 12/13. They are living their glory days right now because the delayed growth players that make it will end up bigger, faster and stronger and will take their spots by graduation and beyond. However, if those late growers also lack skill at this age they probably won't make it playing to their growth spurt. Or will not have the experience with the ECNL or DA level speed of play to compete at the top level in college.
Technical ability is easily gained from 12-18. Alex Morgan is an example of that; anyone can increase their technical abilities by practicing at home every day, religiously.
Again, based on experience, there is very little correlation between 9-11 yo ability and 19 yo ability. Many of the 9-11 stars burn out, and many "uncoordinated" 9-11's shine after they have fully matured.
The fact that someone is attempting to make final determinations on a 10 or 11 year old kid is the problem here.
Technical ability is not easier to gain from 12-18. Alex Morgan does not prove that to be the case. She has never been accused of being a technical player, she is an athlete who can simply beast and that is about it. What Alex Morgan has you cannot coach. There are other players on that team far more technical than Morgan is and all of them demonstrated that technical ability at much younger ages than 12.
Ok, come on. Alex Morgan is extremely technical and extremely athletic. To play at that level you've got to be extremely technical. Being technical doesn't mean you're just good at dribbling (Btw Alex is an excellent dribbler). Come on now....
She is technical enough but she is not know for it. Heath for example is on another level. Here are the FIFA skills ratings between Morgan and Heath:
https://www.fifaindex.com/player/226301/alex-morgan/fifa19/
https://www.fifaindex.com/player/226330/tobin-heath/
Lets stop the fantasy that a kid can pick up soccer at 12 and become Alex Morgan. She is an outlier and even with her athleticism she has several short comings.
NOVASoccerCoach
10/01/2019 15:28
Subject: Re:Harsh Reality for your Beloved Soccer Player
Ok, OP here. This has quickly gotten out of hand.
1. USWNT players are EXTREMELY TECHNICAL and freakishly athletic.
2. This thread was made because I hate seeing parents push their kids for their own vicarious aspirations. If your kid wants to play D1, ask them or even better, let them tell you. Let your kid enjoy soccer and see how far they want to go with it. Too many parents have these ECNL and D1 aspirations for their kid and their kid just wants to play!
That's pretty much it. It doesn't need to be anymore complicated than that. If you have any questions about development and your player, ask in the AMA thread I have.
1. USWNT players are EXTREMELY TECHNICAL and freakishly athletic.
2. This thread was made because I hate seeing parents push their kids for their own vicarious aspirations. If your kid wants to play D1, ask them or even better, let them tell you. Let your kid enjoy soccer and see how far they want to go with it. Too many parents have these ECNL and D1 aspirations for their kid and their kid just wants to play!
That's pretty much it. It doesn't need to be anymore complicated than that. If you have any questions about development and your player, ask in the AMA thread I have.
Anonymous
10/01/2019 15:27
Subject: Harsh Reality for your Beloved Soccer Player
"anyone can increase their technical abilities by practicing at home every day, religiously."
So is Alex Morgan your babysitter? Because that would then make sense.
So is Alex Morgan your babysitter? Because that would then make sense.
NOVASoccerCoach
10/01/2019 15:25
Subject: Re:Harsh Reality for your Beloved Soccer Player
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Coach here (OP)
Geez this thread took off. My response to some of the comments.
1. If you are in ECNL, of course you have a D1 chance. ECNL teams usually are the best select of the club. Usually these are the most athletic/technical/intelligent players (hopefully). I never said ECNL player to D1 is rare. My main point was by U12 if your player isn't at the appropriate technical level it's going to be difficult.
2. There are a lot of freak athletes, you'd be surprised how many there are across the nation.
3. I agree with the anecdotes about academics. However, if your player would like a career in soccer (coaching, admin, etc)in the future, playing college ball gives them a lot of connections and credible resume
No there aren't that many athletic freaks to fill 25% of D1 rosters. They are definitely above average, on the whole, but not years in advance of others. You are thinking of kids who hit their growth spurts early. Many of these at the u12 age you are thinking of (for girls) actually stop growing sooner than the delayed growth kids. Kids who enter menarche sooner (and therefore have an earlier growth spurt) end up smaller than average by the time the group is fully mature.
Coaches who size up kids at 11 with respect to their ability to make a D1 roster (or national/pro team) are part of the problem in this country, not part of the solution.
The coach is talking about technical ability at U12, not size. At U13 ECNL and DA rosters are filled with early growers who are done growing at 12/13. They are living their glory days right now because the delayed growth players that make it will end up bigger, faster and stronger and will take their spots by graduation and beyond. However, if those late growers also lack skill at this age they probably won't make it playing to their growth spurt. Or will not have the experience with the ECNL or DA level speed of play to compete at the top level in college.
Exactly
NOVASoccerCoach
10/01/2019 15:23
Subject: Re:Harsh Reality for your Beloved Soccer Player
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Coach here (OP)
Geez this thread took off. My response to some of the comments.
1. If you are in ECNL, of course you have a D1 chance. ECNL teams usually are the best select of the club. Usually these are the most athletic/technical/intelligent players (hopefully). I never said ECNL player to D1 is rare. My main point was by U12 if your player isn't at the appropriate technical level it's going to be difficult.
2. There are a lot of freak athletes, you'd be surprised how many there are across the nation.
3. I agree with the anecdotes about academics. However, if your player would like a career in soccer (coaching, admin, etc)in the future, playing college ball gives them a lot of connections and credible resume
No there aren't that many athletic freaks to fill 25% of D1 rosters. They are definitely above average, on the whole, but not years in advance of others. You are thinking of kids who hit their growth spurts early. Many of these at the u12 age you are thinking of (for girls) actually stop growing sooner than the delayed growth kids. Kids who enter menarche sooner (and therefore have an earlier growth spurt) end up smaller than average by the time the group is fully mature.
Coaches who size up kids at 11 with respect to their ability to make a D1 roster (or national/pro team) are part of the problem in this country, not part of the solution.
The coach is talking about technical ability at U12, not size. At U13 ECNL and DA rosters are filled with early growers who are done growing at 12/13. They are living their glory days right now because the delayed growth players that make it will end up bigger, faster and stronger and will take their spots by graduation and beyond. However, if those late growers also lack skill at this age they probably won't make it playing to their growth spurt. Or will not have the experience with the ECNL or DA level speed of play to compete at the top level in college.
Technical ability is easily gained from 12-18. Alex Morgan is an example of that; anyone can increase their technical abilities by practicing at home every day, religiously.
Again, based on experience, there is very little correlation between 9-11 yo ability and 19 yo ability. Many of the 9-11 stars burn out, and many "uncoordinated" 9-11's shine after they have fully matured.
The fact that someone is attempting to make final determinations on a 10 or 11 year old kid is the problem here.
Technical ability is not easier to gain from 12-18. Alex Morgan does not prove that to be the case. She has never been accused of being a technical player, she is an athlete who can simply beast and that is about it. What Alex Morgan has you cannot coach. There are other players on that team far more technical than Morgan is and all of them demonstrated that technical ability at much younger ages than 12.
Ok, come on. Alex Morgan is extremely technical and extremely athletic. To play at that level you've got to be extremely technical. Being technical doesn't mean you're just good at dribbling (Btw Alex is an excellent dribbler). Come on now....
Anonymous
10/01/2019 15:22
Subject: Re:Harsh Reality for your Beloved Soccer Player
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Coach here (OP)
Geez this thread took off. My response to some of the comments.
1. If you are in ECNL, of course you have a D1 chance. ECNL teams usually are the best select of the club. Usually these are the most athletic/technical/intelligent players (hopefully). I never said ECNL player to D1 is rare. My main point was by U12 if your player isn't at the appropriate technical level it's going to be difficult.
2. There are a lot of freak athletes, you'd be surprised how many there are across the nation.
3. I agree with the anecdotes about academics. However, if your player would like a career in soccer (coaching, admin, etc)in the future, playing college ball gives them a lot of connections and credible resume
No there aren't that many athletic freaks to fill 25% of D1 rosters. They are definitely above average, on the whole, but not years in advance of others. You are thinking of kids who hit their growth spurts early. Many of these at the u12 age you are thinking of (for girls) actually stop growing sooner than the delayed growth kids. Kids who enter menarche sooner (and therefore have an earlier growth spurt) end up smaller than average by the time the group is fully mature.
Coaches who size up kids at 11 with respect to their ability to make a D1 roster (or national/pro team) are part of the problem in this country, not part of the solution.
The coach is talking about technical ability at U12, not size. At U13 ECNL and DA rosters are filled with early growers who are done growing at 12/13. They are living their glory days right now because the delayed growth players that make it will end up bigger, faster and stronger and will take their spots by graduation and beyond. However, if those late growers also lack skill at this age they probably won't make it playing to their growth spurt. Or will not have the experience with the ECNL or DA level speed of play to compete at the top level in college.
Technical ability is easily gained from 12-18. Alex Morgan is an example of that; anyone can increase their technical abilities by practicing at home every day, religiously.
Again, based on experience, there is very little correlation between 9-11 yo ability and 19 yo ability. Many of the 9-11 stars burn out, and many "uncoordinated" 9-11's shine after they have fully matured.
The fact that someone is attempting to make final determinations on a 10 or 11 year old kid is the problem here.
Technical ability is not easier to gain from 12-18. Alex Morgan does not prove that to be the case. She has never been accused of being a technical player, she is an athlete who can simply beast and that is about it. What Alex Morgan has you cannot coach. There are other players on that team far more technical than Morgan is and all of them demonstrated that technical ability at much younger ages than 12.
Have you seen what Alex Morgan can do in beast mode videos? Apparently not. She’s no Tobin Heath, but she’s better than 99.9% of D1 soccer players in that regard.
Anonymous
10/01/2019 15:19
Subject: Re:Harsh Reality for your Beloved Soccer Player
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Coach here (OP)
Geez this thread took off. My response to some of the comments.
1. If you are in ECNL, of course you have a D1 chance. ECNL teams usually are the best select of the club. Usually these are the most athletic/technical/intelligent players (hopefully). I never said ECNL player to D1 is rare. My main point was by U12 if your player isn't at the appropriate technical level it's going to be difficult.
2. There are a lot of freak athletes, you'd be surprised how many there are across the nation.
3. I agree with the anecdotes about academics. However, if your player would like a career in soccer (coaching, admin, etc)in the future, playing college ball gives them a lot of connections and credible resume
No there aren't that many athletic freaks to fill 25% of D1 rosters. They are definitely above average, on the whole, but not years in advance of others. You are thinking of kids who hit their growth spurts early. Many of these at the u12 age you are thinking of (for girls) actually stop growing sooner than the delayed growth kids. Kids who enter menarche sooner (and therefore have an earlier growth spurt) end up smaller than average by the time the group is fully mature.
Coaches who size up kids at 11 with respect to their ability to make a D1 roster (or national/pro team) are part of the problem in this country, not part of the solution.
The coach is talking about technical ability at U12, not size. At U13 ECNL and DA rosters are filled with early growers who are done growing at 12/13. They are living their glory days right now because the delayed growth players that make it will end up bigger, faster and stronger and will take their spots by graduation and beyond. However, if those late growers also lack skill at this age they probably won't make it playing to their growth spurt. Or will not have the experience with the ECNL or DA level speed of play to compete at the top level in college.
Technical ability is easily gained from 12-18. Alex Morgan is an example of that; anyone can increase their technical abilities by practicing at home every day, religiously.
Again, based on experience, there is very little correlation between 9-11 yo ability and 19 yo ability. Many of the 9-11 stars burn out, and many "uncoordinated" 9-11's shine after they have fully matured.
The fact that someone is attempting to make final determinations on a 10 or 11 year old kid is the problem here.
Technical ability is not easier to gain from 12-18. Alex Morgan does not prove that to be the case. She has never been accused of being a technical player, she is an athlete who can simply beast and that is about it. What Alex Morgan has you cannot coach. There are other players on that team far more technical than Morgan is and all of them demonstrated that technical ability at much younger ages than 12.
Anonymous
10/01/2019 15:18
Subject: Harsh Reality for your Beloved Soccer Player
The title of this thread is on point. LOL.
Anonymous
10/01/2019 15:07
Subject: Re:Harsh Reality for your Beloved Soccer Player
Also skilled players that won't be playing college soccer. Plenty of good players don't have time for it in college.