Anonymous
09/26/2019 22:49
Subject: Re:Daughter's Behavior Toward Parent/Family and Attitude vs Gratitude
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op here.
Anonymous wrote:I think she already knows that your relationship is transactional.
That's not how I see it, and frankly that's not how it is from me. If that's what she thinks then screw it. I am here bending over backwards to connect with her even just a LITTLE. I am patient, compassionate, and have provided her with everything she needs and beyond. All I have ever asked for is to be treated with kindness and included.
NP.
The bolded is not true. Not even a little bit.
You've asked for a lot more than that. A lot of frankly unreasonable stuff. You expect her, basically an adult, to write thank you notes (who still does that??) to relatives that she didn't ask for gifts from, you expect her to talk to relatives on the phone (and even call them herself as an obligation that she simply accepts), you expect her to spend her apparently small amounts of precious time off with your distant relatives doing things isn't interested in doing. Yes, being polite is basic respect. She should acknowledge someone in the room, she shouldn't say nasty things to people, but you are treating her like a small child who is essentially your personal property and you can demand how and with whom she spends her private time.
She is an adult. She isn't interested in spending hours with people that are important to YOU. She is a person. She controls who she spends time with. Your relatives are not important to her. Who knows why. Maybe they remind her of you. But it's her choice. You can't demand to control her time and energy and then say "all I have ever asked for is to be treated with kindness". You honestly do sound like a control freak, and a dramatic one at that. That's why she wants to tell you nothing and wants to spend no time with you, and is rude when you force those things on her.
When do you think she should be able to choose who she spends time with? What age? Or never? Plenty of us are very nice people, never rude to anyone, and have no interest in spending time with people just because we share a bit of the same DNA.
You can't disrespect her and then expect her to bend over backwards to "respect" you.
She is not 18 yet and not an adult. As long as she is using the bank of Dad, its not unreasonable to expect her to spend time with Dad and him be involved. It amazes me how hands off parents are and then complain about the current generation.
Anonymous
09/26/2019 22:47
Subject: Daughter's Behavior Toward Parent/Family and Attitude vs Gratitude
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Something is reading wrong about this OP. He's very voluble. Does lots of podium-banging about high standards and what he will accept. Everyone I know IRL who is like this...it's not good.
OP, that speech you are planning to deliver to your daughter is LONG. Do you really expect her to listen through it without even attempting to get a word in edgewise? I find that very hard to imagine.
Agree. OP’s DD sounds like a pretty standard teen and OP is holding her to ridiculous standards. He seriously expects her to tell him everything negative in her life?! That’s insane, I would have been mortified if I had to tell my dad about boy or friend troubles.
How is he holding her to a high standard? He wants to be involved in the college process. Any good parent would be. If she wants him to pay, its not unreasonable. If my did not show me, I would not pay.
Anonymous
09/26/2019 02:43
Subject: Re:Daughter's Behavior Toward Parent/Family and Attitude vs Gratitude
Anonymous wrote:Op here.
Anonymous wrote:I think she already knows that your relationship is transactional.
That's not how I see it, and frankly that's not how it is from me. If that's what she thinks then screw it. I am here bending over backwards to connect with her even just a LITTLE. I am patient, compassionate, and have provided her with everything she needs and beyond. All I have ever asked for is to be treated with kindness and included.
NP.
The bolded is not true. Not even a little bit.
You've asked for a lot more than that. A lot of frankly unreasonable stuff. You expect her, basically an adult, to write thank you notes (who still does that??) to relatives that she didn't ask for gifts from, you expect her to talk to relatives on the phone (and even call them herself as an obligation that she simply accepts), you expect her to spend her apparently small amounts of precious time off with your distant relatives doing things isn't interested in doing. Yes, being polite is basic respect. She should acknowledge someone in the room, she shouldn't say nasty things to people, but you are treating her like a small child who is essentially your personal property and you can demand how and with whom she spends her private time.
She is an adult. She isn't interested in spending hours with people that are important to YOU. She is a person. She controls who she spends time with. Your relatives are not important to her. Who knows why. Maybe they remind her of you. But it's her choice. You can't demand to control her time and energy and then say "all I have ever asked for is to be treated with kindness". You honestly do sound like a control freak, and a dramatic one at that. That's why she wants to tell you nothing and wants to spend no time with you, and is rude when you force those things on her.
When do you think she should be able to choose who she spends time with? What age? Or never? Plenty of us are very nice people, never rude to anyone, and have no interest in spending time with people just because we share a bit of the same DNA.
You can't disrespect her and then expect her to bend over backwards to "respect" you.
Anonymous
09/25/2019 23:55
Subject: Daughter's Behavior Toward Parent/Family and Attitude vs Gratitude
My brother and sister treated our father horribly (parents had a very messy divorce when we were young) and here’s what happened:
Dad first paid for sister’s college despite her behavior. She was ungrateful, accused him of stealing her scholarship money, and for a solid decade after graduating she would throw tantrums and demand he pay her the full amount of her tuition, even though he had already paid her tuition. They still have a bad relationship and she still treats him terribly.
Dad learned his lesson and refused to pay for brother’s tuition. Brother figured out pretty quick how to survive on his own and became completely financially independent at 17, which took away all leverage dad had. He still holds a grudge and refuses to speak to our dad.
Bottom line, 17 is a little too late to instill values, that should have been done years ago. Either way, you’re screwed. Give the money out of the goodness of your heart because she’s your daughter if you’d like, but don’t try to use it to manipulate her.
Dad first paid for sister’s college despite her behavior. She was ungrateful, accused him of stealing her scholarship money, and for a solid decade after graduating she would throw tantrums and demand he pay her the full amount of her tuition, even though he had already paid her tuition. They still have a bad relationship and she still treats him terribly.
Dad learned his lesson and refused to pay for brother’s tuition. Brother figured out pretty quick how to survive on his own and became completely financially independent at 17, which took away all leverage dad had. He still holds a grudge and refuses to speak to our dad.
Bottom line, 17 is a little too late to instill values, that should have been done years ago. Either way, you’re screwed. Give the money out of the goodness of your heart because she’s your daughter if you’d like, but don’t try to use it to manipulate her.
Anonymous
09/25/2019 23:48
Subject: Daughter's Behavior Toward Parent/Family and Attitude vs Gratitude
Anonymous wrote:Something is reading wrong about this OP. He's very voluble. Does lots of podium-banging about high standards and what he will accept. Everyone I know IRL who is like this...it's not good.
OP, that speech you are planning to deliver to your daughter is LONG. Do you really expect her to listen through it without even attempting to get a word in edgewise? I find that very hard to imagine.
Agree. OP’s DD sounds like a pretty standard teen and OP is holding her to ridiculous standards. He seriously expects her to tell him everything negative in her life?! That’s insane, I would have been mortified if I had to tell my dad about boy or friend troubles.
Anonymous
09/25/2019 23:11
Subject: Daughter's Behavior Toward Parent/Family and Attitude vs Gratitude
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I could have written your post 15 years ago when my DD was that age. Same situation with divorce & attitude. I had the exact perspective and comments to DD (love is unconditional, money is not). What she heard & understood was that I wasn’t going to be there for her. It took over a decade to repair our relationship. I so regretted having taken a hard stance and being rigid. I paid off her college loans a few years out of college. She’s 32 now, we’re closer, but I’ve never stopped wishing I’d been a soft place to fall for her. Your DD is smart and awesome, but she’s being pissy now. Love her through it. Please.
A million times this.
OP this is a relationship issue. It is not a character issue or a question of authority/discipline. Repair the relationship. Go to therapy alone if she wont go with you.
+2
Anonymous
09/25/2019 22:43
Subject: Daughter's Behavior Toward Parent/Family and Attitude vs Gratitude
Something is reading wrong about this OP. He's very voluble. Does lots of podium-banging about high standards and what he will accept. Everyone I know IRL who is like this...it's not good.
OP, that speech you are planning to deliver to your daughter is LONG. Do you really expect her to listen through it without even attempting to get a word in edgewise? I find that very hard to imagine.
OP, that speech you are planning to deliver to your daughter is LONG. Do you really expect her to listen through it without even attempting to get a word in edgewise? I find that very hard to imagine.
Anonymous
09/25/2019 20:27
Subject: Daughter's Behavior Toward Parent/Family and Attitude vs Gratitude
Anonymous wrote:Op here.
Anonymous wrote:OP, regarding your original post, I suspect that this is a problem NOW because you don't want to pay for college
If you read my first response to this thread, you would know that I very much DO want to pay for college. I have always wanted to send my DD to school and looked forward to that day. It's a parenting privilege as I see it.
But I'll say it for the Nth time:
THIS ISN'T ABOUT MONEY
THIS ISN'T ABOUT MONEY
If I had 1 Trillion dollars I would feel the exact same way.
If you make someone feel hurt and excluded and disrespected and that they don't matter through your attitude and behavior, then you shouldn't look to them for much material support. Jeff Bezos' kids treated him rudely and horribly, I think he would be well within his rights to say that needs to stop if you want my continued support.
I guess I just have a different view of parenting and how you should treat people.
I want very much to pay for my DD's education, and I plan to. But I feel it is not only reasonable, but also good parenting, that there be some condition of kindness and inclusion in return.
Then be clear to her you will be involved with the applications and financial aide and when the results come in you will work with her and mom to figure out the remaining payment. If she wants to do it on her own, without your input, then she will need to find a way to fund it as you are not. Its simple.
Anonymous
09/25/2019 20:23
Subject: Re:Daughter's Behavior Toward Parent/Family and Attitude vs Gratitude
Anonymous wrote:Op here.
Anonymous wrote:I am currently pursuing a much better paying career position to be able to pay
He doesn't have the money
This is about money folks!
Wrong. I do have money that will cover it. But my career moves are both for my retirement and my DD's education - because I don't believe in debt and I don't want her to have student loans.
NP here and you might actually want to consider having her take out some of the money in loans. Not a crippling amount but just to have some skin in the game and to give her an appreciation of the value of money as she repays the loans.
I don't know how it happened but somewhere along the way you guys just didn't teach her the value of money (i.e. your statement above that you always provided every academic/sport/extracurricular opportunity no matter the cost). I also agree with you that an adult should treat you with respect if they want monetary support. I don't think this translates to a close relationship per se but it's ridiculous that she feels so entitled to not provide even a briefing about her college plans because its too much work. If you're paying you have access to all of the application materials, financial information and grades. I think there also comes a point (i.e. now) where she needs to temper her tone and language when she talks to you. She's too old to have temper tantrums.
Also, you made a mistake about the thank you notes. You shouldn't have given her the money until she wrote the notes and if she refused to write them you should have sent the money back.