Anonymous wrote:

You're not lying, but your dad could have done much more to stay in touch with you. Sorry. I would fight to my very last penny if my DH were to cut off contact with my kid. Unless he somehow bribed judges or fled the country, there's no way he'd be able to do that and not be held accountable. This isn't to say that courts always work, but there's a lot you can do if you truly want to.

You don't understand the situation. This was in the pre-internet, pre-email days. My mom moved us cross-country several times. Also, the courts just didn't give a shit about the rights of fathers. They awarded her custody and weren't going to do a thing for him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP with all caps, I don't know what to tell you - I can't compete with voices in your head. No one is shaming or judging divorced people. There is no stigma in divorce. Like none.

The OP wanted to know what life is like post-divorce. Remember, she asked. I told her how to get a realistic picture of what it will be like. She alone knows how the math works. Maybe you'd prefer a "you go girl!" but I don't think that's good advice.

how can you say it's not good advice without knowing any particulars? It's absurd to claim that taking out the trash should be the price of a lifetime of misery for you and your entire household. You just sound increasingly clueless and paternalistic. If you want to talk about your OWN divorce regrets with some detail, we are all ears. meanwhile stop with the stupid assumptions.

But you don't know the particulars either, do you?

The woman asked what the divorce will be like. I think it's pretty sound advice to say, to imagine divorce, think of everything related to your husband and subtract it from your life. That's what it would look like. I don't know if her husband takes out the trash. But you also don't know if she and her household are in misery.

I am not divorced - precisely because I have an accurate tally of what my husband brings to the table, and what my life will be like without it. On all fronts. I look at the calculus, and I make my choices accordingly.

Anonymous wrote:I've read every page of this thread and feel like something is missing in the "divorce messes up the kids" discussion. In every example cited, the divorce sounds like it was contentious (moving kids multiple times across the country to avoid their father - that's an extreme case, but JFC). Custody battles, badmouthing...of course that's terrible for anyone near the couple.

I feel like it's not the divorce that messes up the kids. It's how the ex-spouses handle their divorce and post-divorce co-parenting.

Anonymous wrote:My brother had to fight tooth as nail to get custody of his kids. His wife had walked out (didn't take the kids) to live with her affair partner. Not long before court her lawyer told her she needed to have the kids if she wanted to get money. So she took them and refused to let my brother see them. After court was over (and she was given full custody) even though he had been the primary parent, she started to drop them off to him again as she just wanted money, not the kids. After a couple years if showing he had the kids more than her he went back to court and list again. Judge said not the change the status quo. Financially with all the money he was paying to her plus actually paying most costs for the kids and paying for his own living expenses - he couldn't keep going back to court. He waited until the kids were able to really voice their own views and then went back to court once more and won. By then the kids were pretty messed up by it all. The divorce and immediate step dad messed them up, thie mom not really wanting them messed them up, wanting to live with their dad and not being able to messed them up, my brother'a subsequent remarriage messed them up (she had two young kids and his kids were really angry those kids got to live with him full time and they didn't).

This was 20 years ago. The kids are now mid twenties and are still only semi functional. Their own relationships have been messes and they are still trying to find themselves and her over their anger.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m on the brink and the only thing at this point holding me back is fear of the unknown. I’m not sure exactly WHAT I’m afraid of- loneliness? Embarrassment about my failed marriage?

I’d love to know what to expect in terms of life, dating again, so on.

I am 35, attractive, 2 young kids (one has mild SN and is a huge handful). I work a lot but have a high income (particularly for a woman my age, I’m probably in the 1%). But, I also probably won’t have money to burn given the increased expenses associated with divorce.

I have a nagging feeling that the dating scene is rough.

Look at your life now, and then subtract every contribution currently made by your husband. Be very very realistic about his contributions, even the ones you do not currently notice. Lots of women I see who want to divorce think that their life will be exactly as it was less the husband.

Does he take out the trash? Carry your heavy bags? Cares for the kids while you take yoga or have dinner with a friend? Replaces AC filter? Takes the car to the shop? Brings money? Now it's you taking the car to the shop, carrying heavy bags, staying with kids and there is no more money.

Also, be very very clear about what your husband means to you emotionally. You may hate him right now and possibly for good reasons. Now imagine him pairing up with a hot young woman six months from now. Not saying that he will, but how will you feel if he does? What about if he has children with her and your children are now second in line? Again, not to say it will happen but how will you feel if it does?

Visualize parenting remotely. Figure out how you feel about that. Visualize having the same argument about parenting difference but this time without the softening factor of "she's my wife after all".

Regarding dating, please internalize the fact that your children are the most important creatures in the world to you, and that you are the only one who will ever feel this way about them. No other man will ever feel that, and certainly not within months of meeting you.

You may have very good reasons for divorce, no one really knows that but you. But something tells me that you haven't really visualized what your life realistically will be like post divorce.

PP here. I think you vastly underestimate people who are serious considering divorce, going through one, or have already been divorced. You really think a lot of people don’t think about the things you are saying? Well, guess what? Your line of thinking and the divorce shaming/stigma is what keeps people in miserable marriages far longer than they should be. Wasting time. Wasting energy. Leading a joyless life.
For what? So their husband can take out the trash and bring a paycheck? Are you kidding me? That is not enough to save a marriage or not even enough to even be married.
So, here, I will take your little test just for fun to prove how ridiculous it is—I am responding in CAPS so you can see my response to your comments (not yelling).
“Look at your life now, and then subtract every contribution currently made by your husband. Be very very realistic about his contributions, even the ones you do not currently notice. Lots of women I see who want to divorce think that their life will be exactly as it was less the husband.”
—I LITERALLY DO NOT KNOW ONE WOMAN THIS NAÏVE.
Does he take out the trash? SOMETIMES, I USUALLY DO IT
Carry your heavy bags? NO
Cares for the kids while you take yoga or have dinner with a friend? NOT FOR 7 YEARS, AND I CAN HIRE A BABYSITTER AND WOULD HAVE MORE TIME WITH 50/50 CUSTODY
Replaces AC filter? AFTER I NAG, SURE. I CAN DO IT MYSELF.
Takes the car to the shop? NO, I DO IT
Brings money? YES, BUT SO DO I SO THAT IS NOT THAT RELEVANT. HE MAKES MORE BUT WHO CARES?
Now it's you taking the car to the shop, carrying heavy bags, staying with kids and there is no more money. I AM BASICALLY DOING THAT ANYWAY. WHY WOULD ANYONE STAY MARRIED FOR THESE MINOR “BENEFITS”?
Also, be very very clear about what your husband means to you emotionally. You may hate him right now and possibly for good reasons. Now imagine him pairing up with a hot young woman six months from now. Not saying that he will, but how will you feel if he does? What about if he has children with her and your children are now second in line? Again, not to say it will happen but how will you feel if it does?
I DO NOT CARE WHO HE SCREWS AROUND WITH, WHO HE DATES, IF HE REMARRIES. GOOD FOR HIM. I HAVE NOT CARED IN MANY, MANY, MANY YEARS.
Visualize parenting remotely. Figure out how you feel about that. Visualize having the same argument about parenting difference but this time without the softening factor of "she's my wife after all".
HE HAS LITERALLY NEVER SAID OR THOUGHT THAT ("she's my wife after all") IN THE MARRIAGE. NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE ON THAT FRONT.

Regarding dating, please internalize the fact that your children are the most important creatures in the world to you, and that you are the only one who will ever feel this way about them. No other man will ever feel that, and certainly not within months of meeting you.
I DO NOT EXPECT ANOTHER MAN TO THINK THAT, BUT GUESS WHAT? I AM NOT INTRODUCING ANY MAN TO MY KIDS OR REMARRYING. I AM PERSONALLY FINE BEING CASUAL ON MY NON-KIND TIME. AND MY STEP-GRANDFATHER LOVED MY FATHER LIKE HIS OWN SON—SO THERE ARE CAPABLE MEN OUT THERE—IF THAT IS WHAT SOMEONE WANTS. IT’S POSSIBLE. BUT NOT EVERYONE IS THINKING ABOUT DATING. THEY WANT TO BE SINGLE—NOT MARRIED.

I am so tired of the divorce shaming. Most people who are divorcing are so beyond these ridiculous things you mention. News flash: we have thought about these things. Our problems are so much bigger. And these tiny little things would not make any difference in the world. I assure you that many of us have thought about life realistically post-divorce for YEARS and often feel like we have waited too long because of other people's judgment...exactly like yours.

Thank you!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got divorced 20 years ago after 25 years married. I'll tell you what it's like, it's great. My husband wasn't all that bad but I knew it was time for a divorce. I did wait until my kids were both out of high school so I did not experience, or force them to experience, the trauma of divorce with young kids. Good luck OP.

The trauma is worse for teens and college students

I can understand teens, but college students? Come on. You're an adult, you have sexual and relationship experience, you should be able to "get" why these things happen. Also, you're out of the house, so it's not affecting your daily life like it does for kids still living at home (e.g., now going back and forth between two houses).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got divorced 20 years ago after 25 years married. I'll tell you what it's like, it's great. My husband wasn't all that bad but I knew it was time for a divorce. I did wait until my kids were both out of high school so I did not experience, or force them to experience, the trauma of divorce with young kids. Good luck OP.

The trauma is worse for teens and college students

I can understand teens, but college students? Come on. You're an adult, you have sexual and relationship experience, you should be able to "get" why these things happen. Also, you're out of the house, so it's not affecting your daily life like it does for kids still living at home (e.g., now going back and forth between two houses).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m on the brink and the only thing at this point holding me back is fear of the unknown. I’m not sure exactly WHAT I’m afraid of- loneliness? Embarrassment about my failed marriage?

I’d love to know what to expect in terms of life, dating again, so on.

I am 35, attractive, 2 young kids (one has mild SN and is a huge handful). I work a lot but have a high income (particularly for a woman my age, I’m probably in the 1%). But, I also probably won’t have money to burn given the increased expenses associated with divorce.

I have a nagging feeling that the dating scene is rough.

Look at your life now, and then subtract every contribution currently made by your husband. Be very very realistic about his contributions, even the ones you do not currently notice. Lots of women I see who want to divorce think that their life will be exactly as it was less the husband.

Does he take out the trash? Carry your heavy bags? Cares for the kids while you take yoga or have dinner with a friend? Replaces AC filter? Takes the car to the shop? Brings money? Now it's you taking the car to the shop, carrying heavy bags, staying with kids and there is no more money.

Also, be very very clear about what your husband means to you emotionally. You may hate him right now and possibly for good reasons. Now imagine him pairing up with a hot young woman six months from now. Not saying that he will, but how will you feel if he does? What about if he has children with her and your children are now second in line? Again, not to say it will happen but how will you feel if it does?

Visualize parenting remotely. Figure out how you feel about that. Visualize having the same argument about parenting difference but this time without the softening factor of "she's my wife after all".

Regarding dating, please internalize the fact that your children are the most important creatures in the world to you, and that you are the only one who will ever feel this way about them. No other man will ever feel that, and certainly not within months of meeting you.

You may have very good reasons for divorce, no one really knows that but you. But something tells me that you haven't really visualized what your life realistically will be like post divorce.

NP, and you're completely discounting the relief of not having to live in an utterly miserable situation, in a home that feels, at best, completely uncomfortable, and at worst, completely unsafe. You're not counting the enormous amounts of time and energy spent on a miserable marriage, instead of on parenting children or taking care of oneself. The financial burden is real, but to stay in an awful situation because your partner takes out the trash? Or takes the car to the shop? There's a lot to be said for living a daily life that allows you to exist without constant stress.

Not every marriage where partners contemplate divorce is miserable or unsafe or awful. Stress is a part of life, and no life is completely free of stress. All I suggest is to be completely, unflinchingly realistic about life post-divorce. The good and the bad. Chances are that the spouse you want to leave behind doesn't just bring bad things to your life, they bring something good too, something good that you may be overlooking in your angst.

Well said.

You're not lying, but your dad could have done much more to stay in touch with you. Sorry. I would fight to my very last penny if my DH were to cut off contact with my kid. Unless he somehow bribed judges or fled the country, there's no way he'd be able to do that and not be held accountable. This isn't to say that courts always work, but there's a lot you can do if you truly want to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I got divorced 20 years ago after 25 years married. I'll tell you what it's like, it's great. My husband wasn't all that bad but I knew it was time for a divorce. I did wait until my kids were both out of high school so I did not experience, or force them to experience, the trauma of divorce with young kids. Good luck OP.

The trauma is worse for teens and college students

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP with all caps, I don't know what to tell you - I can't compete with voices in your head. No one is shaming or judging divorced people. There is no stigma in divorce. Like none.

The OP wanted to know what life is like post-divorce. Remember, she asked. I told her how to get a realistic picture of what it will be like. She alone knows how the math works. Maybe you'd prefer a "you go girl!" but I don't think that's good advice.

how can you say it's not good advice without knowing any particulars? It's absurd to claim that taking out the trash should be the price of a lifetime of misery for you and your entire household. You just sound increasingly clueless and paternalistic. If you want to talk about your OWN divorce regrets with some detail, we are all ears. meanwhile stop with the stupid assumptions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m on the brink and the only thing at this point holding me back is fear of the unknown. I’m not sure exactly WHAT I’m afraid of- loneliness? Embarrassment about my failed marriage?

I’d love to know what to expect in terms of life, dating again, so on.

I am 35, attractive, 2 young kids (one has mild SN and is a huge handful). I work a lot but have a high income (particularly for a woman my age, I’m probably in the 1%). But, I also probably won’t have money to burn given the increased expenses associated with divorce.

I have a nagging feeling that the dating scene is rough.

Look at your life now, and then subtract every contribution currently made by your husband. Be very very realistic about his contributions, even the ones you do not currently notice. Lots of women I see who want to divorce think that their life will be exactly as it was less the husband.

Does he take out the trash? Carry your heavy bags? Cares for the kids while you take yoga or have dinner with a friend? Replaces AC filter? Takes the car to the shop? Brings money? Now it's you taking the car to the shop, carrying heavy bags, staying with kids and there is no more money.

Also, be very very clear about what your husband means to you emotionally. You may hate him right now and possibly for good reasons. Now imagine him pairing up with a hot young woman six months from now. Not saying that he will, but how will you feel if he does? What about if he has children with her and your children are now second in line? Again, not to say it will happen but how will you feel if it does?

Visualize parenting remotely. Figure out how you feel about that. Visualize having the same argument about parenting difference but this time without the softening factor of "she's my wife after all".

Regarding dating, please internalize the fact that your children are the most important creatures in the world to you, and that you are the only one who will ever feel this way about them. No other man will ever feel that, and certainly not within months of meeting you.

You may have very good reasons for divorce, no one really knows that but you. But something tells me that you haven't really visualized what your life realistically will be like post divorce.

PP here. I think you vastly underestimate people who are serious considering divorce, going through one, or have already been divorced. You really think a lot of people don’t think about the things you are saying? Well, guess what? Your line of thinking and the divorce shaming/stigma is what keeps people in miserable marriages far longer than they should be. Wasting time. Wasting energy. Leading a joyless life.
For what? So their husband can take out the trash and bring a paycheck? Are you kidding me? That is not enough to save a marriage or not even enough to even be married.
So, here, I will take your little test just for fun to prove how ridiculous it is—I am responding in CAPS so you can see my response to your comments (not yelling).
“Look at your life now, and then subtract every contribution currently made by your husband. Be very very realistic about his contributions, even the ones you do not currently notice. Lots of women I see who want to divorce think that their life will be exactly as it was less the husband.”
—I LITERALLY DO NOT KNOW ONE WOMAN THIS NAÏVE.
Does he take out the trash? SOMETIMES, I USUALLY DO IT
Carry your heavy bags? NO
Cares for the kids while you take yoga or have dinner with a friend? NOT FOR 7 YEARS, AND I CAN HIRE A BABYSITTER AND WOULD HAVE MORE TIME WITH 50/50 CUSTODY
Replaces AC filter? AFTER I NAG, SURE. I CAN DO IT MYSELF.
Takes the car to the shop? NO, I DO IT
Brings money? YES, BUT SO DO I SO THAT IS NOT THAT RELEVANT. HE MAKES MORE BUT WHO CARES?
Now it's you taking the car to the shop, carrying heavy bags, staying with kids and there is no more money. I AM BASICALLY DOING THAT ANYWAY. WHY WOULD ANYONE STAY MARRIED FOR THESE MINOR “BENEFITS”?
Also, be very very clear about what your husband means to you emotionally. You may hate him right now and possibly for good reasons. Now imagine him pairing up with a hot young woman six months from now. Not saying that he will, but how will you feel if he does? What about if he has children with her and your children are now second in line? Again, not to say it will happen but how will you feel if it does?
I DO NOT CARE WHO HE SCREWS AROUND WITH, WHO HE DATES, IF HE REMARRIES. GOOD FOR HIM. I HAVE NOT CARED IN MANY, MANY, MANY YEARS.
Visualize parenting remotely. Figure out how you feel about that. Visualize having the same argument about parenting difference but this time without the softening factor of "she's my wife after all".
HE HAS LITERALLY NEVER SAID OR THOUGHT THAT ("she's my wife after all") IN THE MARRIAGE. NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE ON THAT FRONT.

Regarding dating, please internalize the fact that your children are the most important creatures in the world to you, and that you are the only one who will ever feel this way about them. No other man will ever feel that, and certainly not within months of meeting you.
I DO NOT EXPECT ANOTHER MAN TO THINK THAT, BUT GUESS WHAT? I AM NOT INTRODUCING ANY MAN TO MY KIDS OR REMARRYING. I AM PERSONALLY FINE BEING CASUAL ON MY NON-KIND TIME. AND MY STEP-GRANDFATHER LOVED MY FATHER LIKE HIS OWN SON—SO THERE ARE CAPABLE MEN OUT THERE—IF THAT IS WHAT SOMEONE WANTS. IT’S POSSIBLE. BUT NOT EVERYONE IS THINKING ABOUT DATING. THEY WANT TO BE SINGLE—NOT MARRIED.

I am so tired of the divorce shaming. Most people who are divorcing are so beyond these ridiculous things you mention. News flash: we have thought about these things. Our problems are so much bigger. And these tiny little things would not make any difference in the world. I assure you that many of us have thought about life realistically post-divorce for YEARS and often feel like we have waited too long because of other people's judgment...exactly like yours.

Anonymous wrote:I got divorced 20 years ago after 25 years married. I'll tell you what it's like, it's great. My husband wasn't all that bad but I knew it was time for a divorce. I did wait until my kids were both out of high school so I did not experience, or force them to experience, the trauma of divorce with young kids. Good luck OP.