“there are schools in the DMV and beyond where students are learning next year’s math outside of school and then lobbying the administration for a subject acceleration. When more and more kids do this it changes the culture of the school. ”

Yes. This is the problem. It is one thing if you simply “get it” very quickly in school; it is another if you are spending eons outside of school pre-learning all the material.

Anonymous wrote:What is all this pressure you talk of? Many elementary schools have no HW or minimal HW. Schools bend of backward to reduce workload. Effort, not results, is emphasized. Homework is typically not graded for my middle schooler.

It is very different than it was five years ago.

That’s all good. But there are schools in the DMV and beyond where students are learning next year’s math outside of school and then lobbying the administration for a subject acceleration. When more and more kids do this it changes the culture of the school.

There should definitely be no pressure in elementary school. I’m not seeing that when 5 kids in 6th grade are selected to take Algebra I in 6th grade—not because they are brilliant or gifted but because they studied for hundreds of hours outside school and and prepped for tests most parents have no clue exist.
When a school does this it condones the pressure put on these kids outside of school and encourages other families to follow suit. Typically it’s not UMC white families that feel the pressure to “be the best” but rather the less wealthy and 1st or 2nd generation immigrants who feel this anxiety.

On one hand it’s unfair for UMC parents to tsk tsk the practice of hot housing academics on young kids. They have less to worry about as far as maintaining their child’s class status. But in this case they are right. No expert in education thinks pushing down academics is a good thing. The idea that kids should go to 8 hours of school and then do academics afterward isn’t an education ideal. The Asian communities that do this are a disaster and no one would say otherwise.

What is all this pressure you talk of? Many elementary schools have no HW or minimal HW. Schools bend of backward to reduce workload. Effort, not results, is emphasized. Homework is typically not graded for my middle schooler.

It is very different than it was five years ago.

Every parent gets to choose their kid's path through childhood. Assuming that they are not abusive, that's their right.

We all prioritize different things. The Asian stereotype of "all academics, all the time" (often more typical of lower-income first-gen immigrants struggling to make it in the US, who know that education is the key to higher-earning professions back in their home country, and assume the test-driven academic achievement pattern holds true in the US as well) generally does not, in fact, lead to what top colleges are looking for in candidates. Those narrowly focused kids -- without SEL skills, without sports and other extracurriculars -- may guarantee themselves spots at state schools (where, stereotypically, they will be pushed into STEM careers), but are unlikely to get into private schools looking for more breadth.

Parents prioritizing less stressful, broader educations have to accept that they are making tradeoffs, in which their kids are not, in fact, going to make the top of the academic ladder, but have more enriched lives and possibly will go on to happier adulthoods with more options for their future.

Now, where the white UMC really stress is when their kids are up against Asian families who parent just a little bit differently and whose kids may excel because of it. (This parenting style is not exclusive to Asians but statistically more prevalent.) These are families who believe in the value of education, set high standards, and expect kids to work hard in the pursuits that those kids choose, but where the kids also have breadth -- kids who also do sports and music in addition to academics, for instance. In general, these families (often second-gen immigrants) are going to be culturally very similar to the white UMCs around them, so their kids are not "stereotypically Asian", but their skin color is different and thus these Asians become a target of white fear.

We seem to be perfectly fine with this in athletics. No one complains when the star athlete practices two hours every day. In fact, we idolize him and shower him with praise for talent and hard work.

The point is that athletics is different from school work. A child or teen spends all day in school, and then they go out on to the athletic field and do something different from what they’ve been doing all day. A child who spends all day in school and then sends the after school hours in outside academic classes or tutoring is simply doing more of the same, not expanding knowledge into a completely different area than academics.

The children who excel in school and in a more physical activity are developing lives with many different facets. They have a foundation to build an adult life as a strong and healthy person who can win and lose as part of a team and be just as successful academically. Kids who can excel in school while spending their after school hours in non academic pursuits are sought after by colleges who want students who can be successful and contribute in a number of different areas.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I have heard several math teachers complain that regular smart kids just can't keep up with kids that go to outside math tutoring two hours a day and then refer specifically to tiger moms. I have heard them complain and make comments about spelling bee winners like- of course you will win if you are forced to study hours a day, its not fair that the truly talented kids are being left behind.


They're right. Kids shouldn't be doing that. Elementary school math never needs that.

Its a parent right to choose whatever they think is best for their kid. It is fine not to send your kid to math tutoring for 2 hours every night. You can't complain though when the kid going to 2 hours of math tutoring has better skills than your kid. Your kid does not deserve to be at the top or win the award if the kid sitting next to him has better skills.

We seem to be perfectly fine with this in athletics. No one complains when the star athlete practices two hours every day. In fact, we idolize him and shower him with praise for talent and hard work. Academics? No this seems to be the land of white privilege.

No. The point of elementary school math is to prepare for high school math, college math, and a job. Not to stress children or to win awards.

I'm not complaining about my children not winning awards. I'm complaining about the pressure, the inappropriate unnecessary pressure.

Why are there awards for doing the school work everyone is supposed to do? That's ridiculous. This is supposed to be an education not a competition.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all South Asian or East Asian immigrants to US are MC or UMC.

And not tiger parents are Asian.
Still the phenomenon exists.
Tiger parents come to good school districts in droves and[b] disrupt them.[/b] It’s about the numbers, the concentration of ppl with a different philosophy.
Not about their ethnicity or race or class.

This is a load of BS. There is something inherently wrong if a school cannot accommodate high achievers. The Tiger Parents are not kidnapping other people's children and making them study hard. I think people are upset because their children were getting easy A's and all of a sudden they are being graded in a curve.

A good school district should welcome Tiger parents and students. MCPS is not thriving when instead of Tiger parents they are getting more and more of ESOL, FARMS and low performing kids.

A good school district will expand opportunities. If you had spelling bees before, include Geography, Biology, Science, Literature Bees, Cinema Bee, Sports Bee, Pop Music Bee too,

If you had school newspaper before, include school comic strip. If you had a Green Recycling Team before, include a Butterfly Garden club, a Blue Bird Trail team There is so much a school district can do to include parents and businesses and create more and more opportunities for all caliber of students.

After a point though, parents have to be inconvenienced and make the sacrifice of their time and resources to support their children. Sorry, that is what good human parenting is about.

Yes I am upset when one culture (that you chose) suddenly is overcome by another.
I am upset when it happens to schools suddenly flooded by low income high needs kids, too.

white supremacist

I never said anything about one culture being supreme to another.
I just have my preferences.

Anonymous wrote:Look. Let’s just expand TJ, and make sure all the kill and drill families have a spot. Heck, make another TJ!
Most of us have been around long enough, and know enough Valedictorians and TJ grads to have figured it out.
There is no cheese in the center of the maze.
That juice isn’t worth the squeeze. So, let them have it. Crush your kids, their dreams, their childhood, and dip your toe into the deep waters of mental illness. Have at it! Make up new awards. Create another SAT! Jump through those hoops!
But keep it over there. I don’t want my kids running a race to nowhere.

This x1000!
Do not come to schools with tons of enrichment and a creative spirit and turn it into another study mill.

Anonymous wrote:Some white folk like to point out the high school drop outs who make it big. Or point to Uncle Mike who makes 350k in sales or as a sheet metal worker. Asians don’t play that nonsense.

Uh, $350k isn't nonsense.

Some white folk like to point out the high school drop outs who make it big. Or point to Uncle Mike who makes 350k in sales or as a sheet metal worker. Asians don’t play that nonsense.

Is it also stereotyping when people go on and on on this board about the Asian “culture of success” and “focus on education”? You can’t have it both ways. If you maintain that Asian Americans have a uniquely intense focus on education, hard work, and success, then you can’t complain when parents of different cultural backgrounds speak up and say “whoa, our school is way too focused on education, hard work, and success lately.” I am one of those white parents who thinks there can indeed be too much of a good thing sometimes. Too much when it means after-school math classes, test prep classes, and the “anything other than an A isn’t acceptable” attitude. I’m not about to tell people to move away or change their community, but I’m happy to move away from all that myself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look. Let’s just expand TJ, and make sure all the kill and drill families have a spot. Heck, make another TJ!
Most of us have been around long enough, and know enough Valedictorians and TJ grads to have figured it out.
There is no cheese in the center of the maze.
That juice isn’t worth the squeeze. So, let them have it. Crush your kids, their dreams, their childhood, and dip your toe into the deep waters of mental illness. Have at it! Make up new awards. Create another SAT! Jump through those hoops!
But keep it over there. I don’t want my kids running a race to nowhere.

Asian here who went to the equivalent of TJ where I grew up - no doubt that my parents made me work harder than my white friends, but there was no "kill and drill" and certainly no mental illness. I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here -- Asian kids are mentally ill? Going to end up mentally ill because their parents are pushing them to work harder? Are you just jealous?

Reread what I wrote and try again. You went to a “TJ like” school. Shouldn’t be too hard for you.

Anonymous wrote:Our schools have become too stressful for many kids. For whatever reason.

It’s largely because going to a “good” college has become a necessary credential in the eyes of many. Credentialism is a key factor in the minds of many in the DMV.

Our schools have become too stressful for many kids. For whatever reason.

So to summarize:

-White people in northern VA are jealous of many Asians’ academic success. Those who are not Jewish felt the same way about Jews, or their parents did back in the 80s.
- White people in northern VA don’t have similar concerns about African Americans and Latinos, but secretly fume about affirmative action.
- White people in northern VA are convinced that, with enough money and flexing of parental connections , their kids will still be “fine”, that is, at the top of the social and economic hierarchy in whatever version of America exists 15-20 years from now (far left or far right).
- White people in northern VA feel entitled to sports success for their kids and, accordingly, a college admissions boost.
-White and Asian people in nova rarely consider letting their kids work a trade or join the military.