Anonymous
07/09/2019 14:20
Subject: Re:Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:“Similar complications arose during the earlier pregnancy with a breech baby, he said, and Ms. Noe opted to have a C-section at the hospital after Ms Hock advised her of the risks. This time, he said, Ms. Hock once again warned Ms. Noe of the risks of a breech birth, but that she had opted to remain at home.”
From this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/06/us/nebraska-midwife.html
She had a c-section two years ago, but decided to give it a go at home this time? The parents are culpable too.
I’ve said it like 3 times, but posters here are too busy squabbling over home births.
Woah, she was trying a VBAC at home? Naw that's just stupid. No one to blame but themselves.
A breech VBAC. At home. Regardless of however amazing a midwife could be, this is so crazy dangerous and reckless the parents definitely share in the fault.
Waiting for the mom to be arrested for murder like so many other women have been. She's just as guilty as they poor ladies.
Indiana woman jailed for “feticide.” It’s never happened before. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/01/indiana-woman-jailed-for-feticide-its-never-happened-before/?utm_term=.ed73f459f0b7
A Pregnant Woman Who Miscarried After Being Shot in the Stomach Is Being Charged With Manslaughter in Alabama https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/alabama-pregnant-woman-unborn-baby-fetus-miscarriage-gunshot-stomach-manslaughter.html
The charges were dropped against the Alabama woman.
And the Indiana case was overturned by the Indiana Court of Appeals.
Overturned. Dropped.
The point is they were arrested in the first place.
What point? You think this woman should be arrested? Not for a valid legal reason but just for vindictiveness?
Fortunately, you're not in charge.
Anonymous
07/09/2019 14:19
Subject: Re:Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:“Similar complications arose during the earlier pregnancy with a breech baby, he said, and Ms. Noe opted to have a C-section at the hospital after Ms Hock advised her of the risks. This time, he said, Ms. Hock once again warned Ms. Noe of the risks of a breech birth, but that she had opted to remain at home.”
From this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/06/us/nebraska-midwife.html
She had a c-section two years ago, but decided to give it a go at home this time? The parents are culpable too.
I’ve said it like 3 times, but posters here are too busy squabbling over home births.
Woah, she was trying a VBAC at home? Naw that's just stupid. No one to blame but themselves.
A breech VBAC. At home. Regardless of however amazing a midwife could be, this is so crazy dangerous and reckless the parents definitely share in the fault.
Waiting for the mom to be arrested for murder like so many other women have been. She's just as guilty as they poor ladies.
Indiana woman jailed for “feticide.” It’s never happened before. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/01/indiana-woman-jailed-for-feticide-its-never-happened-before/?utm_term=.ed73f459f0b7
A Pregnant Woman Who Miscarried After Being Shot in the Stomach Is Being Charged With Manslaughter in Alabama https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/alabama-pregnant-woman-unborn-baby-fetus-miscarriage-gunshot-stomach-manslaughter.html
The charges were dropped against the Alabama woman.
And the Indiana case was overturned by the Indiana Court of Appeals.
Overturned. Dropped.
The point is they were arrested in the first place.
Anonymous
07/09/2019 14:16
Subject: Re:Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:“Similar complications arose during the earlier pregnancy with a breech baby, he said, and Ms. Noe opted to have a C-section at the hospital after Ms Hock advised her of the risks. This time, he said, Ms. Hock once again warned Ms. Noe of the risks of a breech birth, but that she had opted to remain at home.”
From this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/06/us/nebraska-midwife.html
She had a c-section two years ago, but decided to give it a go at home this time? The parents are culpable too.
I’ve said it like 3 times, but posters here are too busy squabbling over home births.
Woah, she was trying a VBAC at home? Naw that's just stupid. No one to blame but themselves.
I’ve had three banca by midwives. But a Vbac for a breech is just dumb. I don’t understand why anyone would think that they would be the exception to this rule
Anonymous
07/09/2019 14:07
Subject: Re:Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:“Similar complications arose during the earlier pregnancy with a breech baby, he said, and Ms. Noe opted to have a C-section at the hospital after Ms Hock advised her of the risks. This time, he said, Ms. Hock once again warned Ms. Noe of the risks of a breech birth, but that she had opted to remain at home.”
From this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/06/us/nebraska-midwife.html
She had a c-section two years ago, but decided to give it a go at home this time? The parents are culpable too.
I’ve said it like 3 times, but posters here are too busy squabbling over home births.
Woah, she was trying a VBAC at home? Naw that's just stupid. No one to blame but themselves.
A breech VBAC. At home. Regardless of however amazing a midwife could be, this is so crazy dangerous and reckless the parents definitely share in the fault.
Waiting for the mom to be arrested for murder like so many other women have been. She's just as guilty as they poor ladies.
Indiana woman jailed for “feticide.” It’s never happened before. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/01/indiana-woman-jailed-for-feticide-its-never-happened-before/?utm_term=.ed73f459f0b7
A Pregnant Woman Who Miscarried After Being Shot in the Stomach Is Being Charged With Manslaughter in Alabama https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/alabama-pregnant-woman-unborn-baby-fetus-miscarriage-gunshot-stomach-manslaughter.html
The charges were dropped against the Alabama woman.
And the Indiana case was overturned by the Indiana Court of Appeals.
Anonymous
07/09/2019 13:41
Subject: Re:Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:“Similar complications arose during the earlier pregnancy with a breech baby, he said, and Ms. Noe opted to have a C-section at the hospital after Ms Hock advised her of the risks. This time, he said, Ms. Hock once again warned Ms. Noe of the risks of a breech birth, but that she had opted to remain at home.”
From this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/06/us/nebraska-midwife.html
She had a c-section two years ago, but decided to give it a go at home this time? The parents are culpable too.
I’ve said it like 3 times, but posters here are too busy squabbling over home births.
Woah, she was trying a VBAC at home? Naw that's just stupid. No one to blame but themselves.
A breech VBAC. At home. Regardless of however amazing a midwife could be, this is so crazy dangerous and reckless the parents definitely share in the fault.
Waiting for the mom to be arrested for murder like so many other women have been. She's just as guilty as they poor ladies.
Indiana woman jailed for “feticide.” It’s never happened before. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/01/indiana-woman-jailed-for-feticide-its-never-happened-before/?utm_term=.ed73f459f0b7
A Pregnant Woman Who Miscarried After Being Shot in the Stomach Is Being Charged With Manslaughter in Alabama https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/alabama-pregnant-woman-unborn-baby-fetus-miscarriage-gunshot-stomach-manslaughter.html
The charges were dropped against the Alabama woman.
Anonymous
07/09/2019 13:31
Subject: Re:Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:“Similar complications arose during the earlier pregnancy with a breech baby, he said, and Ms. Noe opted to have a C-section at the hospital after Ms Hock advised her of the risks. This time, he said, Ms. Hock once again warned Ms. Noe of the risks of a breech birth, but that she had opted to remain at home.”
From this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/06/us/nebraska-midwife.html
She had a c-section two years ago, but decided to give it a go at home this time? The parents are culpable too.
I’ve said it like 3 times, but posters here are too busy squabbling over home births.
Woah, she was trying a VBAC at home? Naw that's just stupid. No one to blame but themselves.
A breech VBAC. At home. Regardless of however amazing a midwife could be, this is so crazy dangerous and reckless the parents definitely share in the fault.
Waiting for the mom to be arrested for murder like so many other women have been. She's just as guilty as they poor ladies.
Indiana woman jailed for “feticide.” It’s never happened before. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/01/indiana-woman-jailed-for-feticide-its-never-happened-before/?utm_term=.ed73f459f0b7
A Pregnant Woman Who Miscarried After Being Shot in the Stomach Is Being Charged With Manslaughter in Alabama https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/alabama-pregnant-woman-unborn-baby-fetus-miscarriage-gunshot-stomach-manslaughter.html
Anonymous
07/09/2019 13:01
Subject: Re:Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:I actually live in Nebraska and here’s my take:
1. Nebraska is the only state in the country where it is illegal for CNMs to attend home births. So mothers desiring a homebirth go underground to find lay “midwives” who do home births.
2. There are at least two doctors in Omaha that I know of who will deliver breech births vaginally. Of course I know nothing about this mother’s medical situation, but if she really feared a csection, she could have at least consulted with these doctors.
3. The “midwife” in this case is a total fraud. Here she is on a podcast, explaining some cockamamie legal theory that what she’s doing as a “midwife” in Nebraska is ok because she and her clients are in a “private membership association” that is somehow immune from regulation:
http://www.drstuspodcast.com/blogs/dr-stus-podcast-nebraska-birth-keeper/
4. This all happened in mid-June. Her Nebraska birth keeper Facebook page continued to have cheery posts and updates after this birth. She didn’t shut herself down.
5. Doing a home birth breech birth (or twins) is kind of the ultimate badge of prestige for these lay midwives, so she very likely knew and was pushing the envelope in hopes all would be fine and this would be her badge of glory.
6. I read in an article somewhere that when paramedics arrived, she was performing an episiotomy on the mom.
My heart really breaks for the mom here. Sure, she made the wrong choice but she did so in the sincere belief that she was protecting herself and her child.
The criminalization of homebirth does seem to result in some bad outcomes. Homebirth never went away entirely and is currently on the rise, so the further into the fold homebirthing becomes, the safer all around. Ideally a woman will have the same continuity of care should she need to transfer to a hospital during pregnancy, birth, or after and thus no barriers to transfer when it's necessary.
Anonymous
07/09/2019 13:01
Subject: Re:Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:“Similar complications arose during the earlier pregnancy with a breech baby, he said, and Ms. Noe opted to have a C-section at the hospital after Ms Hock advised her of the risks. This time, he said, Ms. Hock once again warned Ms. Noe of the risks of a breech birth, but that she had opted to remain at home.”
From this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/06/us/nebraska-midwife.html
She had a c-section two years ago, but decided to give it a go at home this time? The parents are culpable too.
I’ve said it like 3 times, but posters here are too busy squabbling over home births.
Woah, she was trying a VBAC at home? Naw that's just stupid. No one to blame but themselves.
A breech VBAC. At home. Regardless of however amazing a midwife could be, this is so crazy dangerous and reckless the parents definitely share in the fault.
Anonymous
07/09/2019 12:55
Subject: Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:In 1900, before modern medicine, 16.5% of childbirths resulted in a non-living baby.
There are medical treatments you might wish to decline, such as a knee cortisone shot.
But childbirth is DANGEROUS. It is risky. Do not do it without very good medical care. If you do choose to leave the hospital for childbirth, you’re taking a future life in your hands. It is then on you to make sure you have an excellent medical plan if something goes wrong.
In 1900, doctors had almost won the battle to exterminate midwifery and force women into the hospital. Birth statistics were horrible because women often died in the hospital from infection. It was much safer in that time to birth at home with a midwife but that option wasn't available to most women.
Birth statistics prior to the Industrial Revolution seem to be better. Of course women and babies died from what are now preventable causes but it was not as grim as birthing at a hospital around the 1900s.
Anonymous
07/09/2019 12:54
Subject: Re:Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:“Similar complications arose during the earlier pregnancy with a breech baby, he said, and Ms. Noe opted to have a C-section at the hospital after Ms Hock advised her of the risks. This time, he said, Ms. Hock once again warned Ms. Noe of the risks of a breech birth, but that she had opted to remain at home.”
From this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/06/us/nebraska-midwife.html
She had a c-section two years ago, but decided to give it a go at home this time? The parents are culpable too.
I’ve said it like 3 times, but posters here are too busy squabbling over home births.
Same. I had to have a c section for a breech baby. My obgyn made it clear that any other birth plan was not happening (not that I had any interest in trying). If this mom already has a breech pregnancy and C section, she damn well knew the risks of it and went ahead anyway. She’s culpable
She's culpable of finding a medical professional who agreed to take her as a client. She didn't go for an unattended home birth.
She is not culpable for choosing a midwife who lied about her credentials and her status as a midwife. This is why there are rules and regulations for medical professionals, to protect pregnant women and others from liars and unlicensed medical professionals.
Anonymous
07/09/2019 12:53
Subject: Re:Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:“Similar complications arose during the earlier pregnancy with a breech baby, he said, and Ms. Noe opted to have a C-section at the hospital after Ms Hock advised her of the risks. This time, he said, Ms. Hock once again warned Ms. Noe of the risks of a breech birth, but that she had opted to remain at home.”
From this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/06/us/nebraska-midwife.html
She had a c-section two years ago, but decided to give it a go at home this time? The parents are culpable too.
I’ve said it like 3 times, but posters here are too busy squabbling over home births.
Woah, she was trying a VBAC at home? Naw that's just stupid. No one to blame but themselves.
Anonymous
07/09/2019 12:42
Subject: Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
This reminds me of the baby who died under the care of Karen Carr. The mother had been denied a home birth by several providers because the baby was breech. She kept looking until she found one who would do it. She knew the risks, but blamed the midwife when the baby died.
Anonymous
07/09/2019 08:55
Subject: Re:Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:“Similar complications arose during the earlier pregnancy with a breech baby, he said, and Ms. Noe opted to have a C-section at the hospital after Ms Hock advised her of the risks. This time, he said, Ms. Hock once again warned Ms. Noe of the risks of a breech birth, but that she had opted to remain at home.”
From this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/06/us/nebraska-midwife.html
She had a c-section two years ago, but decided to give it a go at home this time? The parents are culpable too.
I’ve said it like 3 times, but posters here are too busy squabbling over home births.
Same. I had to have a c section for a breech baby. My obgyn made it clear that any other birth plan was not happening (not that I had any interest in trying). If this mom already has a breech pregnancy and C section, she damn well knew the risks of it and went ahead anyway. She’s culpable
Anonymous
07/09/2019 08:46
Subject: Re:Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:“Similar complications arose during the earlier pregnancy with a breech baby, he said, and Ms. Noe opted to have a C-section at the hospital after Ms Hock advised her of the risks. This time, he said, Ms. Hock once again warned Ms. Noe of the risks of a breech birth, but that she had opted to remain at home.”
From this article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/06/us/nebraska-midwife.html
She had a c-section two years ago, but decided to give it a go at home this time? The parents are culpable too.
I’ve said it like 3 times, but posters here are too busy squabbling over home births.
Anonymous
07/09/2019 08:33
Subject: Midwife charged after at-home birth ends in death of baby
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The natural birth cultists are a lot like anti-vaxers. They will believe what they want, evidence-based medicine be damned.
You apparently don't know about all those disgusting people in hospitals. Come enjoy my lovely fruit bowl, but only until six weeks before Christmas.
I didn't want this to get lost in the fray. I love you, whoever you are. Please be my best friend.
But only if you eat that delicious and filling fruit outside.