Anonymous wrote:Well, the Wheaton area has improved significantly in the ten years I have lived here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are more people who live in Maryland and work in VA, than those that do the reverse. Based on most recent census data in 2009-2013 time frame, approximately 68,500 people who lived in Virginia work in Maryland. Conversely, approximately 122,700 people who lived in Maryland work in Virginia. You guys can download and look at the raw data yourself:

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/dem...commuting/commuting-flows.html

It's very clear that VA does a better job at providing people with, err, jobs, than Maryland.


Agreed, and I suspect in the 10 years since that census was taken, a lot of people have decided to locate or relocate to NoVA, driving up housing prices there compared to MD. It's rational to assume that if one area is creating a lot more jobs than another one, this will have a short-term effect of a lot of people commuting there, and a longer-term effect of people locating there and therefore driving up housing costs relative to other nearby areas.

and the beauty is that there are still plenty of areas in NoVA that are very close in but have not appreciated much yet due to schools but can appreciate quite a bit, the areas around shirlington to sevens corner as well as annadale are all relatively close in but are still pretty cheap due to poor schools ("For now")

This X100. I think this is the #1 reason why there is such a stark difference between Montgomery County appreciation and NOVA appreciation. Higher paying jobs are being concentrated in NOVA. This starts a snowball effect with wealthier, high income people moving to NOVA and newcomers choosing NOVA over MoCo. MoCo loses both revenue from not having any jobs or business and losing the high income residents. This makes the area more affordable but less attractive so prices fall further. Poverty increases because there are more options for low income housing and programs. The schools suffer as they lose more highly educated people. Eventually taxes will need to go up spooking away other buyers or tipping the scales for more wealthy people leaving the county. Buyers see the huge differences in appreciation and worry about investing in Montgomery County.

Some of the fundamentals are really stark:



So Fairfax has about 10% more people and 10% more businesses with employees, but the businesses with employees in Fairfax generate 38% more employment and 66% higher payroll than the businesses in Montgomery County. So not only are the businesses in Fairfax County employing far more people on average, but the jobs are significantly higher paying. And year over year Fairfax is enjoying 1.3% employment growth versus 0.2% for MoCo. This does not even take into account the business/employment in Arlington, Alexandria, Falls Church, and Fairfax City. Here's the underlying raw data for people that want to see for themselves:

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/montgomerycountymaryland,fairfaxcountyvirginia,US/PST045218

Face it, Virginia is providing substantial employment opportunities to Marylanders, MoCo should be thanking their lucky stars for their proximity to NoVA.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are more people who live in Maryland and work in VA, than those that do the reverse. Based on most recent census data in 2009-2013 time frame, approximately 68,500 people who lived in Virginia work in Maryland. Conversely, approximately 122,700 people who lived in Maryland work in Virginia. You guys can download and look at the raw data yourself:

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/dem...commuting/commuting-flows.html

It's very clear that VA does a better job at providing people with, err, jobs, than Maryland.


Agreed, and I suspect in the 10 years since that census was taken, a lot of people have decided to locate or relocate to NoVA, driving up housing prices there compared to MD. It's rational to assume that if one area is creating a lot more jobs than another one, this will have a short-term effect of a lot of people commuting there, and a longer-term effect of people locating there and therefore driving up housing costs relative to other nearby areas.

This X100. I think this is the #1 reason why there is such a stark difference between Montgomery County appreciation and NOVA appreciation. Higher paying jobs are being concentrated in NOVA. This starts a snowball effect with wealthier, high income people moving to NOVA and newcomers choosing NOVA over MoCo. MoCo loses both revenue from not having any jobs or business and losing the high income residents. This makes the area more affordable but less attractive so prices fall further. Poverty increases because there are more options for low income housing and programs. The schools suffer as they lose more highly educated people. Eventually taxes will need to go up spooking away other buyers or tipping the scales for more wealthy people leaving the county. Buyers see the huge differences in appreciation and worry about investing in Montgomery County.

Anonymous wrote:

There are more people who live in Maryland and work in VA, than those that do the reverse. Based on most recent census data in 2009-2013 time frame, approximately 68,500 people who lived in Virginia work in Maryland. Conversely, approximately 122,700 people who lived in Maryland work in Virginia. You guys can download and look at the raw data yourself:

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/dem...commuting/commuting-flows.html

It's very clear that VA does a better job at providing people with, err, jobs, than Maryland.


Agreed, and I suspect in the 10 years since that census was taken, a lot of people have decided to locate or relocate to NoVA, driving up housing prices there compared to MD. It's rational to assume that if one area is creating a lot more jobs than another one, this will have a short-term effect of a lot of people commuting there, and a longer-term effect of people locating there and therefore driving up housing costs relative to other nearby areas.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are more people who live in Maryland and work in VA, than those that do the reverse. Based on most recent census data in 2009-2013 time frame, approximately 68,500 people who lived in Virginia work in Maryland. Conversely, approximately 122,700 people who lived in Maryland work in Virginia. You guys can download and look at the raw data yourself:

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/commuting/commuting-flows.html

It's very clear that VA does a better job at providing people with, err, jobs, than Maryland.

Agreed, and I suspect in the 10 years since that census was taken, a lot of people have decided to locate or relocate to NoVA, driving up housing prices there compared to MD. It's rational to assume that if one area is creating a lot more jobs than another one, this will have a short-term effect of a lot of people commuting there, and a longer-term effect of people locating there and therefore driving up housing costs relative to other nearby areas.

In the past 10 yrs, MD as the rest of the DC metro region has also experienced population growth. Look at the overcrowded schools and crazy traffic. Look at the schools in Bethesda all the way up north on 270..almost every school is either at max or above capacity. It's not like people are only moving to VA.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:No. I was born in DC, but grew up in moco. It’s been in decline for at least 20 years. Md is very pro poor people and con business. It’s not sustainable.

+1

High taxes with a shrinking tax base to pay it

I think Maryland should make VA people pay tax for income earned in MD. A large part of my company live in VA but work in MD and pay no taxes to MD and use our roads and services. Problem solved

Typical Marylander: "There's a tax out there to solve every problem."

BTW -- the states have reciprocity. MD residents who work in VA don't pay taxes to VA.

It is not true Reciprocity. If it was it would be an equal exchange. VA residents should get a 100% of the MD tax rate and get to take that off their VA taxes. VA has a lower tax rate so they are avoiding taxes in this deal. I lived in NY when I worked in MD my first year. I paid full MD taxes on income earned in MD. I filed a NYS Resident return and a MD non resident return. I got a credit on my NYS return for tax paid in MD. MD got its fair share of my income tax.

Now that I live in MD if I work in VA I still pay full MD taxes. Why would MD or DC for this matter agree to this. In NYC they have the deal between NY and NJ for Reciprocity. But with roughly same tax rates it is different. VA has a wildly different tax rate than MD or DC so why did MD and DC cut them in. DC loses a fortune in this arrangement

You're very wrong on this. Maryland has a higher income tax but for a non-resident that simply would not be the case. Remember that a large portion of the Maryland income tax is a county income tax collected by the state. The state income tax maxes out at 5.75% and you have to make more than 250k single or 300k married to hit that level of taxation. In Virginia, the state income tax also maxes at 5.75% but it hits that level at a much lower income level. Since Virginia residents wouldn't be paying income tax to any county in Maryland, the state loses nothing.
These links show the state income tax level. County tax in Maryland for MoCo is another 3.2% on top of it but it's based on the county you live and not where you work. Non-residents living in Virginia would not pay this.
https://www.individual.tax.virginia.gov/calculators/income-tax-calculator.cfm
https://taxes.marylandtaxes.gov/Individual_Taxes/Individual_Tax_Types/Income_Tax/Tax_Information/Tax_Rates/default.shtml

There are more people who live in Maryland and work in VA, than those that do the reverse. Based on most recent census data in 2009-2013 time frame, approximately 68,500 people who lived in Virginia work in Maryland. Conversely, approximately 122,700 people who lived in Maryland work in Virginia. You guys can download and look at the raw data yourself:

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/commuting/commuting-flows.html

It's very clear that VA does a better job at providing people with, err, jobs, than Maryland.

Right but the point is, Maryland would not actually generate any additional tax revenue if they got rid of the reciprocal tax agreement because both states have the same maximum income tax. Since more people from Maryland work in Virginia than the other way around, it would actually harm Maryland taxpayers since they would all be paying the max income tax rate while their income in Maryland would not necessarily hit that rate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I was born in DC, but grew up in moco. It’s been in decline for at least 20 years. Md is very pro poor people and con business. It’s not sustainable.

+1

High taxes with a shrinking tax base to pay it

I think Maryland should make VA people pay tax for income earned in MD. A large part of my company live in VA but work in MD and pay no taxes to MD and use our roads and services. Problem solved

Typical Marylander: "There's a tax out there to solve every problem."

BTW -- the states have reciprocity. MD residents who work in VA don't pay taxes to VA.

It is not true Reciprocity. If it was it would be an equal exchange. VA residents should get a 100% of the MD tax rate and get to take that off their VA taxes. VA has a lower tax rate so they are avoiding taxes in this deal. I lived in NY when I worked in MD my first year. I paid full MD taxes on income earned in MD. I filed a NYS Resident return and a MD non resident return. I got a credit on my NYS return for tax paid in MD. MD got its fair share of my income tax.

Now that I live in MD if I work in VA I still pay full MD taxes. Why would MD or DC for this matter agree to this. In NYC they have the deal between NY and NJ for Reciprocity. But with roughly same tax rates it is different. VA has a wildly different tax rate than MD or DC so why did MD and DC cut them in. DC loses a fortune in this arrangement

You're very wrong on this. Maryland has a higher income tax but for a non-resident that simply would not be the case. Remember that a large portion of the Maryland income tax is a county income tax collected by the state. The state income tax maxes out at 5.75% and you have to make more than 250k single or 300k married to hit that level of taxation. In Virginia, the state income tax also maxes at 5.75% but it hits that level at a much lower income level. Since Virginia residents wouldn't be paying income tax to any county in Maryland, the state loses nothing.
These links show the state income tax level. County tax in Maryland for MoCo is another 3.2% on top of it but it's based on the county you live and not where you work. Non-residents living in Virginia would not pay this.
https://www.individual.tax.virginia.gov/calculators/income-tax-calculator.cfm
https://taxes.marylandtaxes.gov/Individual_Taxes/Individual_Tax_Types/Income_Tax/Tax_Information/Tax_Rates/default.shtml

Non Residents are required to pay a non-resident county tax on top of the 5.75% tax. which is 1.75%. So non residents like myself when I lived in NY and worked in MD paid 7.5 percent tax to Maryland. Look at Maryland we always charge a non-resident county tax. It is just lower than MoCo tax rate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I was born in DC, but grew up in moco. It’s been in decline for at least 20 years. Md is very pro poor people and con business. It’s not sustainable.

+1

High taxes with a shrinking tax base to pay it

I think Maryland should make VA people pay tax for income earned in MD. A large part of my company live in VA but work in MD and pay no taxes to MD and use our roads and services. Problem solved

Typical Marylander: "There's a tax out there to solve every problem."

BTW -- the states have reciprocity. MD residents who work in VA don't pay taxes to VA.

It is not true Reciprocity. If it was it would be an equal exchange. VA residents should get a 100% of the MD tax rate and get to take that off their VA taxes. VA has a lower tax rate so they are avoiding taxes in this deal. I lived in NY when I worked in MD my first year. I paid full MD taxes on income earned in MD. I filed a NYS Resident return and a MD non resident return. I got a credit on my NYS return for tax paid in MD. MD got its fair share of my income tax.

Now that I live in MD if I work in VA I still pay full MD taxes. Why would MD or DC for this matter agree to this. In NYC they have the deal between NY and NJ for Reciprocity. But with roughly same tax rates it is different. VA has a wildly different tax rate than MD or DC so why did MD and DC cut them in. DC loses a fortune in this arrangement

You're very wrong on this. Maryland has a higher income tax but for a non-resident that simply would not be the case. Remember that a large portion of the Maryland income tax is a county income tax collected by the state. The state income tax maxes out at 5.75% and you have to make more than 250k single or 300k married to hit that level of taxation. In Virginia, the state income tax also maxes at 5.75% but it hits that level at a much lower income level. Since Virginia residents wouldn't be paying income tax to any county in Maryland, the state loses nothing.
These links show the state income tax level. County tax in Maryland for MoCo is another 3.2% on top of it but it's based on the county you live and not where you work. Non-residents living in Virginia would not pay this.
https://www.individual.tax.virginia.gov/calculators/income-tax-calculator.cfm
https://taxes.marylandtaxes.gov/Individual_Taxes/Individual_Tax_Types/Income_Tax/Tax_Information/Tax_Rates/default.shtml

Anonymous wrote:
There are more people who live in Maryland and work in VA, than those that do the reverse. Based on most recent census data in 2009-2013 time frame, approximately 68,500 people who lived in Virginia work in Maryland. Conversely, approximately 122,700 people who lived in Maryland work in Virginia. You guys can download and look at the raw data yourself:

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/commuting/commuting-flows.html

It's very clear that VA does a better job at providing people with, err, jobs, than Maryland.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many people on this thread are a reminder why this entire area just sucks so bad. Can't wait to leave.

Honestly, so many of you NOVA and MOCO die hards are much more alike than you are different.

+1

Similarities are difficult to see or admit, however, when separated by the Potomac Ocean...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I was born in DC, but grew up in moco. It’s been in decline for at least 20 years. Md is very pro poor people and con business. It’s not sustainable.

+1

High taxes with a shrinking tax base to pay it

I think Maryland should make VA people pay tax for income earned in MD. A large part of my company live in VA but work in MD and pay no taxes to MD and use our roads and services. Problem solved

Typical Marylander: "There's a tax out there to solve every problem."

BTW -- the states have reciprocity. MD residents who work in VA don't pay taxes to VA.

It is not true Reciprocity. If it was it would be an equal exchange. VA residents should get a 100% of the MD tax rate and get to take that off their VA taxes. VA has a lower tax rate so they are avoiding taxes in this deal. I lived in NY when I worked in MD my first year. I paid full MD taxes on income earned in MD. I filed a NYS Resident return and a MD non resident return. I got a credit on my NYS return for tax paid in MD. MD got its fair share of my income tax.

Now that I live in MD if I work in VA I still pay full MD taxes. Why would MD or DC for this matter agree to this. In NYC they have the deal between NY and NJ for Reciprocity. But with roughly same tax rates it is different. VA has a wildly different tax rate than MD or DC so why did MD and DC cut them in. DC loses a fortune in this arrangement

You're very wrong on this. Maryland has a higher income tax but for a non-resident that simply would not be the case. Remember that a large portion of the Maryland income tax is a county income tax collected by the state. The state income tax maxes out at 5.75% and you have to make more than 250k single or 300k married to hit that level of taxation. In Virginia, the state income tax also maxes at 5.75% but it hits that level at a much lower income level. Since Virginia residents wouldn't be paying income tax to any county in Maryland, the state loses nothing.
These links show the state income tax level. County tax in Maryland for MoCo is another 3.2% on top of it but it's based on the county you live and not where you work. Non-residents living in Virginia would not pay this.
https://www.individual.tax.virginia.gov/calculators/income-tax-calculator.cfm
https://taxes.marylandtaxes.gov/Individual_Taxes/Individual_Tax_Types/Income_Tax/Tax_Information/Tax_Rates/default.shtml

There are more people who live in Maryland and work in VA, than those that do the reverse. Based on most recent census data in 2009-2013 time frame, approximately 68,500 people who lived in Virginia work in Maryland. Conversely, approximately 122,700 people who lived in Maryland work in Virginia. You guys can download and look at the raw data yourself:

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/commuting/commuting-flows.html

It's very clear that VA does a better job at providing people with, err, jobs, than Maryland.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I was born in DC, but grew up in moco. It’s been in decline for at least 20 years. Md is very pro poor people and con business. It’s not sustainable.

+1

High taxes with a shrinking tax base to pay it

I think Maryland should make VA people pay tax for income earned in MD. A large part of my company live in VA but work in MD and pay no taxes to MD and use our roads and services. Problem solved

Typical Marylander: "There's a tax out there to solve every problem."

BTW -- the states have reciprocity. MD residents who work in VA don't pay taxes to VA.

It is not true Reciprocity. If it was it would be an equal exchange. VA residents should get a 100% of the MD tax rate and get to take that off their VA taxes. VA has a lower tax rate so they are avoiding taxes in this deal. I lived in NY when I worked in MD my first year. I paid full MD taxes on income earned in MD. I filed a NYS Resident return and a MD non resident return. I got a credit on my NYS return for tax paid in MD. MD got its fair share of my income tax.

Now that I live in MD if I work in VA I still pay full MD taxes. Why would MD or DC for this matter agree to this. In NYC they have the deal between NY and NJ for Reciprocity. But with roughly same tax rates it is different. VA has a wildly different tax rate than MD or DC so why did MD and DC cut them in. DC loses a fortune in this arrangement

You're very wrong on this. Maryland has a higher income tax but for a non-resident that simply would not be the case. Remember that a large portion of the Maryland income tax is a county income tax collected by the state. The state income tax maxes out at 5.75% and you have to make more than 250k single or 300k married to hit that level of taxation. In Virginia, the state income tax also maxes at 5.75% but it hits that level at a much lower income level. Since Virginia residents wouldn't be paying income tax to any county in Maryland, the state loses nothing.
These links show the state income tax level. County tax in Maryland for MoCo is another 3.2% on top of it but it's based on the county you live and not where you work. Non-residents living in Virginia would not pay this.
https://www.individual.tax.virginia.gov/calculators/income-tax-calculator.cfm
https://taxes.marylandtaxes.gov/Individual_Taxes/Individual_Tax_Types/Income_Tax/Tax_Information/Tax_Rates/default.shtml

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I was born in DC, but grew up in moco. It’s been in decline for at least 20 years. Md is very pro poor people and con business. It’s not sustainable.

+1

High taxes with a shrinking tax base to pay it

I think Maryland should make VA people pay tax for income earned in MD. A large part of my company live in VA but work in MD and pay no taxes to MD and use our roads and services. Problem solved

Typical Marylander: "There's a tax out there to solve every problem."

BTW -- the states have reciprocity. MD residents who work in VA don't pay taxes to VA.

It is not true Reciprocity. If it was it would be an equal exchange. VA residents should get a 100% of the MD tax rate and get to take that off their VA taxes. VA has a lower tax rate so they are avoiding taxes in this deal. I lived in NY when I worked in MD my first year. I paid full MD taxes on income earned in MD. I filed a NYS Resident return and a MD non resident return. I got a credit on my NYS return for tax paid in MD. MD got its fair share of my income tax.

Now that I live in MD if I work in VA I still pay full MD taxes. Why would MD or DC for this matter agree to this. In NYC they have the deal between NY and NJ for Reciprocity. But with roughly same tax rates it is different. VA has a wildly different tax rate than MD or DC so why did MD and DC cut them in. DC loses a fortune in this arrangement

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many people on this thread are a reminder why this entire area just sucks so bad. Can't wait to leave.

Honestly, so many of you NOVA and MOCO die hards are much more alike than you are different.