Anonymous wrote:What the heck is a donut hole family? Where do these terms come from?!

The term was appropriated from policy experts describing what happens to retirees who have more prescription drug costs annually than are covered by Medicare Part D. It is REALLY well known among seniors who use it to describe their health care costs. Who knows when it began to apply to college costs (although both tuition and drug costs are increases far faster than the rate of inflation).

https://www.medicarerights.org/pdf/Health-Reform-Doughnut-Hole-in-2012.pdf

Too wealthy for much, if any, financial aid. But, lack the income or assets to pay full price for private or OOS colleges.

What the heck is a donut hole family? Where do these terms come from?!

Anonymous wrote:
Yes and No. It IS about colleges selecting the students they want in their classes. But you are incorrect when you say it has nothing to do with broad economic or political philosophies. Read up on on what college admissions deans are doing to encourage wealth redistribution by pushing 30% of the class to be low-income, URM, first-generation, etc. And the essays are where the students try to show off their societal smarts to pass the political correctness test. Colleges are very much now about wealth redistribution and turning out the next phalanx of Social Justice Warriors.

College admissions deans have one very difficult job: Build a class that is consistent with the mission of the organization, while remaining within budgetary constraints. This often includes having students from different racial, cultural, and economic backgrounds. It has nothing to do with the reorganization of the castes of American society, and any AD that made that his mission would be out of a job after one cycle.

The fact that you don't know this is evidence that you have no idea how or why colleges set their admissions priorities, have never been near the process, and don't even know anyone who has.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP - It means that two kids with incomes of $200,000 can be walking around campus, living in the same dorms, taking the same classes and one pays substantially more for the experience because their parents were frugal. It IS backwards.

Somewhat, but not as much as you might think. Since parental assets are counted at 5% in the calculation of the EFC, if you had saved $200,000 for college, it would only result in an EFC of $10,000 higher than the other student that saved $0. Perhaps fair, perhaps not, but either way it is not a huge difference. Income matters much more.

. We were told 10% of parental assets and 35% of student’s assets.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I suppose it depends on the perspective. $10k over 4 years is $40k. Not huge, but nothing to sneer at, either. It's a midsize car.

Also - it's not measured by what "you saved for college," it's measured by any non-retirement assets you have if I understand it correctly. How much should an average college educated couple (2 earners, as is common) have saved up by the time they're around 50? Average age of first childbirth in the US is 30 years.

The concept of EFC reminds me of Karl Marx infamous slogan: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Maybe we have arrived in Communism after all and Marx is laughing from his grave.

This is an irrelevant, misleading and honestly kinda disgusting comparison. It's a strawman that sh*ts.

This is about colleges getting the kids they want in their class. It has nothing to do with broad economic or political philosophies.

Yes and No. It IS about colleges selecting the students they want in their classes. But you are incorrect when you say it has nothing to do with broad economic or political philosophies. Read up on on what college admissions deans are doing to encourage wealth redistribution by pushing 30% of the class to be low-income, URM, first-generation, etc. And the essays are where the students try to show off their societal smarts to pass the political correctness test. Colleges are very much now about wealth redistribution and turning out the next phalanx of Social Justice Warriors.

Anonymous wrote:
I suppose it depends on the perspective. $10k over 4 years is $40k. Not huge, but nothing to sneer at, either. It's a midsize car.

Also - it's not measured by what "you saved for college," it's measured by any non-retirement assets you have if I understand it correctly. How much should an average college educated couple (2 earners, as is common) have saved up by the time they're around 50? Average age of first childbirth in the US is 30 years.

The concept of EFC reminds me of Karl Marx infamous slogan: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Maybe we have arrived in Communism after all and Marx is laughing from his grave.

This is an irrelevant, misleading and honestly kinda disgusting comparison. It's a strawman that sh*ts.

This is about colleges getting the kids they want in their class. It has nothing to do with broad economic or political philosophies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP - It means that two kids with incomes of $200,000 can be walking around campus, living in the same dorms, taking the same classes and one pays substantially more for the experience because their parents were frugal. It IS backwards.

Somewhat, but not as much as you might think. Since parental assets are counted at 5% in the calculation of the EFC, if you had saved $200,000 for college, it would only result in an EFC of $10,000 higher than the other student that saved $0. Perhaps fair, perhaps not, but either way it is not a huge difference. Income matters much more.

I suppose it depends on the perspective. $10k over 4 years is $40k. Not huge, but nothing to sneer at, either. It's a midsize car.

Also - it's not measured by what "you saved for college," it's measured by any non-retirement assets you have if I understand it correctly. How much should an average college educated couple (2 earners, as is common) have saved up by the time they're around 50? Average age of first childbirth in the US is 30 years.

The concept of EFC reminds me of Karl Marx infamous slogan: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. Maybe we have arrived in Communism after all and Marx is laughing from his grave.

Anonymous wrote:

NP - It means that two kids with incomes of $200,000 can be walking around campus, living in the same dorms, taking the same classes and one pays substantially more for the experience because their parents were frugal. It IS backwards.

Somewhat, but not as much as you might think. Since parental assets are counted at 5% in the calculation of the EFC, if you had saved $200,000 for college, it would only result in an EFC of $10,000 higher than the other student that saved $0. Perhaps fair, perhaps not, but either way it is not a huge difference. Income matters much more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP - It means that two kids with incomes of $200,000 can be walking around campus, living in the same dorms, taking the same classes and one pays substantially more for the experience because their parents were frugal. It IS backwards.

Please describe the alternative, and why it is an improvement.

This question never gets answered, people just prefer to complain.

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Anonymous wrote:People’s perspectives, particularly on the DMV, are pretty skewed because on the whole, this is a wealthy pet of the country. .

Colleges recruit nationally. A HHI of $180,000 is in the top 10% nationally. https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/

There are also a lot of students in this area with high stats who would naturally be more interested in a top
100 school.

And since only about the top 25-30 offer no merit aid at all, most families make it work somehow. However, if you are fixated on only the top 30 schools, full pay or not, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Absolutely true. The Ivies and top schools don't offer merit aid because they don't need to. Of the 8 top schools that DC applied to, none offered anything in merit aid. The only offers came unsolicited from struggling LACs you've never heard of because they purchase the SAT and ACT top scoring lists. If you are willing to drop down a tier or two you may find some merit aid but don't count on it for the elite schools.

For “elite” schools without merit aid, their FA is often better than non-elite schools. They even adjust FA based on GPA and test scores. Their merit aid is just rolled into FA.

While it's true that need-based financial aid at elite schools is often better than at non-elite schools, full-pay students aren't getting hidden merit "financial aid" due to GPA/test scores. Full pay is full sticker price, period.

Only 12% of students pay full tuition, meaning 88% are subsidized. You can call that FA, merit, scholarship, fellowship, tuition reduction, or whatever.

Maybe at all colleges in the US, but at top schools that meet full need, roughly half (40-60%, depending on the school) get no financial aid or merit whatsoever.

The percentage of US college population that attend those elite colleges is probably no more than 1-2%. I am guessing 98% attend below top-10 USNews ranking schools. A very high percentage of approximately 98% of all college students receive aid.

Depends on what you call “very high”.

In 2014-15, about two-thirds of full-time students paid for college with the help of financial aid in the form of grants and scholarships. Approximately 57 percent of financial aid dollars awarded to undergraduates was in the form of grants, and 34 percent took the form of federal loans.

https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/pay-for-college/financial-aid-101/financial-aid-faqs

So, 2/3’s of students get some from of aid, including scholarships/merit.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People’s perspectives, particularly on the DMV, are pretty skewed because on the whole, this is a wealthy pet of the country. .

Colleges recruit nationally. A HHI of $180,000 is in the top 10% nationally. https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/

There are also a lot of students in this area with high stats who would naturally be more interested in a top
100 school.

And since only about the top 25-30 offer no merit aid at all, most families make it work somehow. However, if you are fixated on only the top 30 schools, full pay or not, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Absolutely true. The Ivies and top schools don't offer merit aid because they don't need to. Of the 8 top schools that DC applied to, none offered anything in merit aid. The only offers came unsolicited from struggling LACs you've never heard of because they purchase the SAT and ACT top scoring lists. If you are willing to drop down a tier or two you may find some merit aid but don't count on it for the elite schools.

For “elite” schools without merit aid, their FA is often better than non-elite schools. They even adjust FA based on GPA and test scores. Their merit aid is just rolled into FA.

While it's true that need-based financial aid at elite schools is often better than at non-elite schools, full-pay students aren't getting hidden merit "financial aid" due to GPA/test scores. Full pay is full sticker price, period.

Only 12% of students pay full tuition, meaning 88% are subsidized. You can call that FA, merit, scholarship, fellowship, tuition reduction, or whatever.

Maybe at all colleges in the US, but at top schools that meet full need, roughly half (40-60%, depending on the school) get no financial aid or merit whatsoever.

The percentage of US college population that attend those elite colleges is probably no more than 1-2%. I am guessing 98% attend below top-10 USNews ranking schools. A very high percentage of approximately 98% of all college students receive aid.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People’s perspectives, particularly on the DMV, are pretty skewed because on the whole, this is a wealthy pet of the country. .

Colleges recruit nationally. A HHI of $180,000 is in the top 10% nationally. https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/

There are also a lot of students in this area with high stats who would naturally be more interested in a top
100 school.

And since only about the top 25-30 offer no merit aid at all, most families make it work somehow. However, if you are fixated on only the top 30 schools, full pay or not, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Absolutely true. The Ivies and top schools don't offer merit aid because they don't need to. Of the 8 top schools that DC applied to, none offered anything in merit aid. The only offers came unsolicited from struggling LACs you've never heard of because they purchase the SAT and ACT top scoring lists. If you are willing to drop down a tier or two you may find some merit aid but don't count on it for the elite schools.

For “elite” schools without merit aid, their FA is often better than non-elite schools. They even adjust FA based on GPA and test scores. Their merit aid is just rolled into FA.

While it's true that need-based financial aid at elite schools is often better than at non-elite schools, full-pay students aren't getting hidden merit "financial aid" due to GPA/test scores. Full pay is full sticker price, period.

Only 12% of students pay full tuition, meaning 88% are subsidized. You can call that FA, merit, scholarship, fellowship, tuition reduction, or whatever.

Maybe at all colleges in the US, but at top schools that meet full need, roughly half (40-60%, depending on the school) get no financial aid or merit whatsoever.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People’s perspectives, particularly on the DMV, are pretty skewed because on the whole, this is a wealthy pet of the country. .

Colleges recruit nationally. A HHI of $180,000 is in the top 10% nationally. https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/

There are also a lot of students in this area with high stats who would naturally be more interested in a top
100 school.

And since only about the top 25-30 offer no merit aid at all, most families make it work somehow. However, if you are fixated on only the top 30 schools, full pay or not, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Absolutely true. The Ivies and top schools don't offer merit aid because they don't need to. Of the 8 top schools that DC applied to, none offered anything in merit aid. The only offers came unsolicited from struggling LACs you've never heard of because they purchase the SAT and ACT top scoring lists. If you are willing to drop down a tier or two you may find some merit aid but don't count on it for the elite schools.

For “elite” schools without merit aid, their FA is often better than non-elite schools. They even adjust FA based on GPA and test scores. Their merit aid is just rolled into FA.

While it's true that need-based financial aid at elite schools is often better than at non-elite schools, full-pay students aren't getting hidden merit "financial aid" due to GPA/test scores. Full pay is full sticker price, period.

Only 12% of students pay full tuition, meaning 88% are subsidized. You can call that FA, merit, scholarship, fellowship, tuition reduction, or whatever.

But if the amount is based solely on a calculation based on the family's resources it is called FA. Scholarship/fellowship/tuition reduction are synonyms for merit. In fact, I don't think any award letter I saw used the word merit.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People’s perspectives, particularly on the DMV, are pretty skewed because on the whole, this is a wealthy pet of the country. .

Colleges recruit nationally. A HHI of $180,000 is in the top 10% nationally. https://dqydj.com/household-income-percentile-calculator/

There are also a lot of students in this area with high stats who would naturally be more interested in a top
100 school.

And since only about the top 25-30 offer no merit aid at all, most families make it work somehow. However, if you are fixated on only the top 30 schools, full pay or not, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Absolutely true. The Ivies and top schools don't offer merit aid because they don't need to. Of the 8 top schools that DC applied to, none offered anything in merit aid. The only offers came unsolicited from struggling LACs you've never heard of because they purchase the SAT and ACT top scoring lists. If you are willing to drop down a tier or two you may find some merit aid but don't count on it for the elite schools.

For “elite” schools without merit aid, their FA is often better than non-elite schools. They even adjust FA based on GPA and test scores. Their merit aid is just rolled into FA.

While it's true that need-based financial aid at elite schools is often better than at non-elite schools, full-pay students aren't getting hidden merit "financial aid" due to GPA/test scores. Full pay is full sticker price, period.

Only 12% of students pay full tuition, meaning 88% are subsidized. You can call that FA, merit, scholarship, fellowship, tuition reduction, or whatever.

. Mostly they call it ‘loans’

At rice, half tuition F/A, scholarship, up to $200,000 in income. No loans.

No loans if the family can pay R&B and the other half of tuition. Not mocking their generosity but to pretend that makes Rice affordable is laughable.

Sure, most families with $200k probably had some opportunities to save, but for many, coming up with the rest will still be hard and potentially a bigger lift than the state flagship.

No loans doesn't mean no one will take loans. No loans means COA is calculated before federal loans not after. That's a 5-7K per year difference in total price and brings many families down to in-state levels.