Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
We should all support less imports from China.
China is the worst environmental disaster ever!

American consumers are the worst environmental disaster ever. No one put a gun to every American's head and asked them to keep buying "stuff", whether they can afford or not.

Most importantly, whether we need or not.

Anonymous wrote:
We should all support less imports from China.
China is the worst environmental disaster ever!

American consumers are the worst environmental disaster ever. No one put a gun to every American's head and asked them to keep buying "stuff", whether they can afford or not.

We should all support less imports from China.
China is the worst environmental disaster ever!

-Trump has had to authorize ~$28 billion in bailout aid (taxpayer money) to farmers due to his trade war; we'll see if he gets the USMCA ratified. WE ARE COLLECTING MUCH MORE THAN THAT IN TARIFFS, SO IT'S NOT REALLY A PROBLEM. I LIKE WHAT HE HAS BEEN TRYING TO DO, BUT I AGREE THAT WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE THE ACTUAL RESULTS

The tarriffs are paid for by the importer - who passes the cost onto the consumer. I guess we'll see but I have a problem with needing to expend $28billion dollars to see what happens.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming that either of you is being sincere - what would turn you from voting from Clinton to voting for Trump? I am asking this sincerely. To me he is an unmitigated disaster, a wannabe Duterte-type without the smarts to actually be Duterte. What is the appeal to someone who previously didn't fall for his strong man schtick?

(Please don't say illegals or wall.)

Please read this whole thread --- plenty of good arguments that have nothing to do with illegals or the wall.

I am specifically asking the PPs who say they did not vote for him in 2016, why they would vote for him this time. The thread is mostly derpy derping. Not genuine conversation.

This is one of the most thoughtful and civilized threads I have seen on dcum in a while. Perhaps you have forgotten the feel of "genuine conversation"?

In any case, as one of the posters in question, here's my specific reason. Back in 2016 I had no idea what he would actually do in the WH. Would the economy implode? Would he try to deport 10 million immigrants? Would he start a random war with who knows why? By now, in 2019, we have a pretty good sense that he's more capable than expected (not nicer or smarter, just more capable). The economy is great, lower violent crime rates, pretty sensible immigration and security policies, ISIS destroyed, renegotiating harmful trade deals with Mexico and China.

-The economy was great when Obama left office too;
-rates of violent crime have been dropping steadily since the '90's and were actually lowest in 2014: https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/
-what immigration and security policies are you referring to? Nothing has been passed into law;
-ISIS destroyed - I'll give him credit for this, but the fight has just moved - google jihadists in West Africa, and we're going to have to admit defeat in Afghanistan soon and hand it to the Taliban (which really isn't Trump's fault, but might happen on his watch);
-Trump has had to authorize ~$28 billion in bailout aid (taxpayer money) to farmers due to his trade war; we'll see if he gets the USMCA ratified.

I have to say that this thread has been a good discussion. My main objection to Trump is his continued assault on our institutions and people are believing it - that somehow the FBI, IC, judges, are all crooked, that you can't trust the results of elections or that there's massive fraud. This is dangerous.

What evidence is there to support your lies? Zip. SOME people in office ARE crooked, and you know it. As for the elections, Hillary and you Lefties pushed the massive Trump Russia collusion, not Trump, you lying fool. Please try again.

The biggest crook is the constant liar, lifelong fraud, pussy grabber-in-chief and Russian puppet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming that either of you is being sincere - what would turn you from voting from Clinton to voting for Trump? I am asking this sincerely. To me he is an unmitigated disaster, a wannabe Duterte-type without the smarts to actually be Duterte. What is the appeal to someone who previously didn't fall for his strong man schtick?

(Please don't say illegals or wall.)

Please read this whole thread --- plenty of good arguments that have nothing to do with illegals or the wall.

I am specifically asking the PPs who say they did not vote for him in 2016, why they would vote for him this time. The thread is mostly derpy derping. Not genuine conversation.

This is one of the most thoughtful and civilized threads I have seen on dcum in a while. Perhaps you have forgotten the feel of "genuine conversation"?

In any case, as one of the posters in question, here's my specific reason. Back in 2016 I had no idea what he would actually do in the WH. Would the economy implode? Would he try to deport 10 million immigrants? Would he start a random war with who knows why? By now, in 2019, we have a pretty good sense that he's more capable than expected (not nicer or smarter, just more capable). The economy is great, lower violent crime rates, pretty sensible immigration and security policies, ISIS destroyed, renegotiating harmful trade deals with Mexico and China.

-The economy was great when Obama left office too;
-rates of violent crime have been dropping steadily since the '90's and were actually lowest in 2014: https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/
-what immigration and security policies are you referring to? Nothing has been passed into law;
-ISIS destroyed - I'll give him credit for this, but the fight has just moved - google jihadists in West Africa, and we're going to have to admit defeat in Afghanistan soon and hand it to the Taliban (which really isn't Trump's fault, but might happen on his watch);
-Trump has had to authorize ~$28 billion in bailout aid (taxpayer money) to farmers due to his trade war; we'll see if he gets the USMCA ratified.

I have to say that this thread has been a good discussion. My main objection to Trump is his continued assault on our institutions and people are believing it - that somehow the FBI, IC, judges, are all crooked, that you can't trust the results of elections or that there's massive fraud. This is dangerous.

Responding IN CAPS just for easier tracking....I promise I don't like shouting

-The economy was great when Obama left office too; NOT ACCURATE. BY 2016 THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT DECELERATION AND EVEN TALK OF A MINI-RECESSION. AND NEITHER EMPLOYMENT OR MARKETS WERE ANYWHERE CLOSE TO CURRENT LEVELS.
-rates of violent crime have been dropping steadily since the '90's and were actually lowest in 2014: https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/ MURDER INCREASED 20% FROM 2014 TO 2016 UNDER OBAMA, AND IT HAS GONE DOWN AROUND 15% UNDER TRUMP
-what immigration and security policies are you referring to? Nothing has been passed into law; EXACTLY -- ESSENTIALLY TRUMP HAS CONTINUED DOING WHAT OBAMA HAD BEEN DOING, PLUS THE TRAVEL BAN
-ISIS destroyed - I'll give him credit for this, but the fight has just moved - google jihadists in West Africa, and we're going to have to admit defeat in Afghanistan soon and hand it to the Taliban (which really isn't Trump's fault, but might happen on his watch); AGREED
-Trump has had to authorize ~$28 billion in bailout aid (taxpayer money) to farmers due to his trade war; we'll see if he gets the USMCA ratified. WE ARE COLLECTING MUCH MORE THAN THAT IN TARIFFS, SO IT'S NOT REALLY A PROBLEM. I LIKE WHAT HE HAS BEEN TRYING TO DO, BUT I AGREE THAT WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE THE ACTUAL RESULTS

I have to say that this thread has been a good discussion. AGREED! My main objection to Trump is his continued assault on our institutions and people are believing it - that somehow the FBI, IC, judges, are all crooked, that you can't trust the results of elections or that there's massive fraud. This is dangerous. WELL, SOME OF THOSE ELEMENTS DID CONSPIRE AGAINST A LEGITIMATE CANDIDATE, AND FRANKLY MORE DANGEROUS HAS BEEN THE DEMOCRATS' INABILITY TO ACCEPT THEY LOST THE ELECTION.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming that either of you is being sincere - what would turn you from voting from Clinton to voting for Trump? I am asking this sincerely. To me he is an unmitigated disaster, a wannabe Duterte-type without the smarts to actually be Duterte. What is the appeal to someone who previously didn't fall for his strong man schtick?

(Please don't say illegals or wall.)

Please read this whole thread --- plenty of good arguments that have nothing to do with illegals or the wall.

I am specifically asking the PPs who say they did not vote for him in 2016, why they would vote for him this time. The thread is mostly derpy derping. Not genuine conversation.

This is one of the most thoughtful and civilized threads I have seen on dcum in a while. Perhaps you have forgotten the feel of "genuine conversation"?

In any case, as one of the posters in question, here's my specific reason. Back in 2016 I had no idea what he would actually do in the WH. Would the economy implode? Would he try to deport 10 million immigrants? Would he start a random war with who knows why? By now, in 2019, we have a pretty good sense that he's more capable than expected (not nicer or smarter, just more capable). The economy is great, lower violent crime rates, pretty sensible immigration and security policies, ISIS destroyed, renegotiating harmful trade deals with Mexico and China.

-The economy was great when Obama left office too;
-rates of violent crime have been dropping steadily since the '90's and were actually lowest in 2014: https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/
-what immigration and security policies are you referring to? Nothing has been passed into law;
-ISIS destroyed - I'll give him credit for this, but the fight has just moved - google jihadists in West Africa, and we're going to have to admit defeat in Afghanistan soon and hand it to the Taliban (which really isn't Trump's fault, but might happen on his watch);
-Trump has had to authorize ~$28 billion in bailout aid (taxpayer money) to farmers due to his trade war; we'll see if he gets the USMCA ratified.

I have to say that this thread has been a good discussion. My main objection to Trump is his continued assault on our institutions and people are believing it - that somehow the FBI, IC, judges, are all crooked, that you can't trust the results of elections or that there's massive fraud. This is dangerous.

What evidence is there to support your lies? Zip. SOME people in office ARE crooked, and you know it. As for the elections, Hillary and you Lefties pushed the massive Trump Russia collusion, not Trump, you lying fool. Please try again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I told someone that Trump has terrible optics but produces results. Obama had great optics but was mostly ineffectual.

I don't like Trump but I'll choose results over optics any time.

This x1000

The clinic I work in used to refer to an Oral Surgeon who was a complete d!ck. No bedside manner, and cocky as all hell. But I still sent every patient there (with a warning about his demeanor) because he was an excellent surgeon.

I don’t need someone to talk nice to me. I need them to get the job done.

Great example.

Feel the same way.

The only problem is that - unlike the cocky oral surgeon - DJT is completely incompetent. He f#cks up the easy political lay-ups and then blames everyone else except himself.

I can never respect a guy who is constantly shifting blame. I'm not sure how you look beyond it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming that either of you is being sincere - what would turn you from voting from Clinton to voting for Trump? I am asking this sincerely. To me he is an unmitigated disaster, a wannabe Duterte-type without the smarts to actually be Duterte. What is the appeal to someone who previously didn't fall for his strong man schtick?

(Please don't say illegals or wall.)

Please read this whole thread --- plenty of good arguments that have nothing to do with illegals or the wall.

I am specifically asking the PPs who say they did not vote for him in 2016, why they would vote for him this time. The thread is mostly derpy derping. Not genuine conversation.

This is one of the most thoughtful and civilized threads I have seen on dcum in a while. Perhaps you have forgotten the feel of "genuine conversation"?

In any case, as one of the posters in question, here's my specific reason. Back in 2016 I had no idea what he would actually do in the WH. Would the economy implode? Would he try to deport 10 million immigrants? Would he start a random war with who knows why? By now, in 2019, we have a pretty good sense that he's more capable than expected (not nicer or smarter, just more capable). The economy is great, lower violent crime rates, pretty sensible immigration and security policies, ISIS destroyed, renegotiating harmful trade deals with Mexico and China.

-The economy was great when Obama left office too;
-rates of violent crime have been dropping steadily since the '90's and were actually lowest in 2014: https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/
-what immigration and security policies are you referring to? Nothing has been passed into law;
-ISIS destroyed - I'll give him credit for this, but the fight has just moved - google jihadists in West Africa, and we're going to have to admit defeat in Afghanistan soon and hand it to the Taliban (which really isn't Trump's fault, but might happen on his watch);
-Trump has had to authorize ~$28 billion in bailout aid (taxpayer money) to farmers due to his trade war; we'll see if he gets the USMCA ratified.

I have to say that this thread has been a good discussion. My main objection to Trump is his continued assault on our institutions and people are believing it - that somehow the FBI, IC, judges, are all crooked, that you can't trust the results of elections or that there's massive fraud. This is dangerous.

Exactly.

Although I know all my racist relatives are very happy with the job Trump is doing, love that they feel can be as racist and "un pc" as they want to be again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I told someone that Trump has terrible optics but produces results. Obama had great optics but was mostly ineffectual.

I don't like Trump but I'll choose results over optics any time.

This x1000

The clinic I work in used to refer to an Oral Surgeon who was a complete d!ck. No bedside manner, and cocky as all hell. But I still sent every patient there (with a warning about his demeanor) because he was an excellent surgeon.

I don’t need someone to talk nice to me. I need them to get the job done.

Great example.

Feel the same way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming that either of you is being sincere - what would turn you from voting from Clinton to voting for Trump? I am asking this sincerely. To me he is an unmitigated disaster, a wannabe Duterte-type without the smarts to actually be Duterte. What is the appeal to someone who previously didn't fall for his strong man schtick?

(Please don't say illegals or wall.)

Please read this whole thread --- plenty of good arguments that have nothing to do with illegals or the wall.

I am specifically asking the PPs who say they did not vote for him in 2016, why they would vote for him this time. The thread is mostly derpy derping. Not genuine conversation.

This is one of the most thoughtful and civilized threads I have seen on dcum in a while. Perhaps you have forgotten the feel of "genuine conversation"?

In any case, as one of the posters in question, here's my specific reason. Back in 2016 I had no idea what he would actually do in the WH. Would the economy implode? Would he try to deport 10 million immigrants? Would he start a random war with who knows why? By now, in 2019, we have a pretty good sense that he's more capable than expected (not nicer or smarter, just more capable). The economy is great, lower violent crime rates, pretty sensible immigration and security policies, ISIS destroyed, renegotiating harmful trade deals with Mexico and China.

-The economy was great when Obama left office too;
-rates of violent crime have been dropping steadily since the '90's and were actually lowest in 2014: https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/
-what immigration and security policies are you referring to? Nothing has been passed into law;
-ISIS destroyed - I'll give him credit for this, but the fight has just moved - google jihadists in West Africa, and we're going to have to admit defeat in Afghanistan soon and hand it to the Taliban (which really isn't Trump's fault, but might happen on his watch);
-Trump has had to authorize ~$28 billion in bailout aid (taxpayer money) to farmers due to his trade war; we'll see if he gets the USMCA ratified.

I have to say that this thread has been a good discussion. My main objection to Trump is his continued assault on our institutions and people are believing it - that somehow the FBI, IC, judges, are all crooked, that you can't trust the results of elections or that there's massive fraud. This is dangerous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I told someone that Trump has terrible optics but produces results. Obama had great optics but was mostly ineffectual.

I don't like Trump but I'll choose results over optics any time.

This x1000

The clinic I work in used to refer to an Oral Surgeon who was a complete d!ck. No bedside manner, and cocky as all hell. But I still sent every patient there (with a warning about his demeanor) because he was an excellent surgeon.

I don’t need someone to talk nice to me. I need them to get the job done.

If getting the job done is harassing brown immigrants or asylum seekers, a job well done. If it is tax cut for the rich , a job well done. EVERYTHING ELSE, NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE.

Anonymous wrote:I told someone that Trump has terrible optics but produces results. Obama had great optics but was mostly ineffectual.

I don't like Trump but I'll choose results over optics any time.

This x1000

The clinic I work in used to refer to an Oral Surgeon who was a complete d!ck. No bedside manner, and cocky as all hell. But I still sent every patient there (with a warning about his demeanor) because he was an excellent surgeon.

I don’t need someone to talk nice to me. I need them to get the job done.

Anonymous wrote:I told someone that Trump has terrible optics but produces results. Obama had great optics but was mostly ineffectual.

I don't like Trump but I'll choose results over optics any time.

Hmm.. Great results indeed. No wall. Obamacare not revoked and it has become more popular, next step universal healthcare. No new coal/steel jobs, more coal plants shutdown. Chinese trade deficit highest in history. Nafta hasn't been revoked yet. NK is still firing missiles and no deal yet. Dreamers are still here and no plan to deport them. No new Immigration bill. Debt is equal to GDP, thanks to tax cuts for the rich. Tariffs has made lasting damage to our agriculture.

What exactly are the so called achievements?

The two judges to supreme court mean nothing when so called "conservative" judges pass obamacare and legalize gay marriage.

Anonymous wrote:I told someone that Trump has terrible optics but produces results. Obama had great optics but was mostly ineffectual.

I don't like Trump but I'll choose results over optics any time.

Well said.