Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes you can be illiterate n Spanish and English and still get by with stringing words cursing together. Just like a 2 and 3 yo can.

Me want food. Me going to store. Me see you late. Me likes juice.

And apparently, you can even be president just stringing words together.

Actually people like you got Trump elected. Haven’t you figured that out by now?

Anonymous wrote:Yes you can be illiterate n Spanish and English and still get by with stringing words cursing together. Just like a 2 and 3 yo can.

Me want food. Me going to store. Me see you late. Me likes juice.

And apparently, you can even be president just stringing words together.

Yes you can be illiterate n Spanish and English and still get by with stringing words cursing together. Just like a 2 and 3 yo can.

Me want food. Me going to store. Me see you late. Me likes juice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Kids and adults - can’t speak grammatically correct Spanish or English. Vocals extremely limited. Forget about talking about bills, finances, insurance or medical treatment.
I see it every day working at Holy cross hospital. And when we fixed our roof and I had to listen to broken Spanish for 12 hours. Terrible. Back to square one or forget it.

If it's really "broken Spanish", then it's because they have a different first language.

If it's just Spanish that doesn't meet your approval? Well, that's going to happen when there are half a billion people in the world who speak a language. Not everyone is going to speak Royal Spanish Academy Spanish.

And the idea that the Spanish of immigrants who speak Spanish as a first language isn't up to talking about paying bills - no way.

I really wish you were right, but unfortunately you're not.

You're saying that there are functional adults that have no language that they can speak in. That's just not how language works.

Anonymous wrote:

If you never went to formal schooling when little even in your home country— as many. Central Americans have not- you will have limited Spanish or village language and will not know how to formally learn a second language since you have no concept of parts of speech, verb conjugation, vacancy for anything in a developed society, punctuation, etc. Maybe some texting shortcut words

You don't have to know any of that stuff in order to learn a second (or third, or fourth, or nth) language.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Kids and adults - can’t speak grammatically correct Spanish or English. Vocals extremely limited. Forget about talking about bills, finances, insurance or medical treatment.
I see it every day working at Holy cross hospital. And when we fixed our roof and I had to listen to broken Spanish for 12 hours. Terrible. Back to square one or forget it.

If it's really "broken Spanish", then it's because they have a different first language.

If it's just Spanish that doesn't meet your approval? Well, that's going to happen when there are half a billion people in the world who speak a language. Not everyone is going to speak Royal Spanish Academy Spanish.

And the idea that the Spanish of immigrants who speak Spanish as a first language isn't up to talking about paying bills - no way.

If you never went to formal schooling when little even in your home country— as many. Central Americans have not- you will have limited Spanish or village language and will not know how to formally learn a second language since you have no concept of parts of speech, verb conjugation, vacancy for anything in a developed society, punctuation, etc. Maybe some texting shortcut words

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Kids and adults - can’t speak grammatically correct Spanish or English. Vocals extremely limited. Forget about talking about bills, finances, insurance or medical treatment.
I see it every day working at Holy cross hospital. And when we fixed our roof and I had to listen to broken Spanish for 12 hours. Terrible. Back to square one or forget it.

If it's really "broken Spanish", then it's because they have a different first language.

If it's just Spanish that doesn't meet your approval? Well, that's going to happen when there are half a billion people in the world who speak a language. Not everyone is going to speak Royal Spanish Academy Spanish.

And the idea that the Spanish of immigrants who speak Spanish as a first language isn't up to talking about paying bills - no way.

There are multiple dialects all over the world. There are over 30 Italian dialects, for example. I know b/c I grew up with one. These are separate languages that are often spoken. You'll see some literature (poetry, for example) written in a dialect, but it's hard to understand unless you're from that region.

But here's the kicker. A person CAN be fluent in both the standard language and in a dialect. When one is only fluent in a dialect, chances are being literate is an issue. Furthermore, conversations are limited, as vocabulary words are often different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Kids and adults - can’t speak grammatically correct Spanish or English. Vocals extremely limited. Forget about talking about bills, finances, insurance or medical treatment.
I see it every day working at Holy cross hospital. And when we fixed our roof and I had to listen to broken Spanish for 12 hours. Terrible. Back to square one or forget it.

If it's really "broken Spanish", then it's because they have a different first language.

If it's just Spanish that doesn't meet your approval? Well, that's going to happen when there are half a billion people in the world who speak a language. Not everyone is going to speak Royal Spanish Academy Spanish.

And the idea that the Spanish of immigrants who speak Spanish as a first language isn't up to talking about paying bills - no way.

I really wish you were right, but unfortunately you're not.

Anonymous wrote:

Kids and adults - can’t speak grammatically correct Spanish or English. Vocals extremely limited. Forget about talking about bills, finances, insurance or medical treatment.
I see it every day working at Holy cross hospital. And when we fixed our roof and I had to listen to broken Spanish for 12 hours. Terrible. Back to square one or forget it.

If it's really "broken Spanish", then it's because they have a different first language.

If it's just Spanish that doesn't meet your approval? Well, that's going to happen when there are half a billion people in the world who speak a language. Not everyone is going to speak Royal Spanish Academy Spanish.

And the idea that the Spanish of immigrants who speak Spanish as a first language isn't up to talking about paying bills - no way.

Vocab

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many people on this board talk about how they pay hundreds of thousands more for homes in specific neighborhoods because of the schools. They believe they are so vastly superior to other neighborhoods because they confer an advantage to the children who attend them. This appears to be a mainstream belief that the county has addressed with its cohort criteria.

Since when is sending your kid to a school with a bunch kids who don’t know any subjects or any language well going to be the preferred education for your literate child? Of course you’re not going to GI ti that school to attend that school, you might go to test in to a center but not year after year.

The idea that there are people who believe that there are kids in school who "don't know any language well."

I'm an ESOL teacher and that absolutely happens. There are students who understand and speak using conversational language in their first language (BICS), but have very little academic language (CALP) in their first language which makes it much harder to learn it in English since they're learning both the concept and the language simultaneously rather than already being familiar with the concept and just learning the English word for it. It becomes very difficult to fill those deep gaps once the content becomes more complex.

http://www.everythingesl.net/inservices/bics_calp.php

Kids and adults - can’t speak grammatically correct Spanish or English. Vocals extremely limited. Forget about talking about bills, finances, insurance or medical treatment.
I see it every day working at Holy cross hospital. And when we fixed our roof and I had to listen to broken Spanish for 12 hours. Terrible. Back to square one or forget it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many people on this board talk about how they pay hundreds of thousands more for homes in specific neighborhoods because of the schools. They believe they are so vastly superior to other neighborhoods because they confer an advantage to the children who attend them. This appears to be a mainstream belief that the county has addressed with its cohort criteria.

Since when is sending your kid to a school with a bunch kids who don’t know any subjects or any language well going to be the preferred education for your literate child? Of course you’re not going to GI ti that school to attend that school, you might go to test in to a center but not year after year.

The idea that there are people who believe that there are kids in school who "don't know any language well."

I'm an ESOL teacher and that absolutely happens. There are students who understand and speak using conversational language in their first language (BICS), but have very little academic language (CALP) in their first language which makes it much harder to learn it in English since they're learning both the concept and the language simultaneously rather than already being familiar with the concept and just learning the English word for it. It becomes very difficult to fill those deep gaps once the content becomes more complex.

http://www.everythingesl.net/inservices/bics_calp.php

As an ESOL teacher, you know the difference between "don't have academic language" and "don't know any language well."

Knowing a language well includes all facets of the language. I can communicate in Spanish in social situations, but I can't describe a 3D shape or explain the water cycle in Spanish (both are part of the Kindergarten curriculum in MCPS). I wouldn't say that I know the language well due to the fact that I only have BICS in Spanish.

So, if Spanish (or Amharic, Chinese, Korean, French etc) is my native language but I don't have academic language in my native language at a Kindergarten level then that would be considered not knowing any language well.

My kids couldn't do that in their native language (English) when they were 5, either. But I don't think anybody on DCUM would claim that my kids, at 5, didn't know any language well.

Each example of "academic language" comes with its own set of skills.

It's one thing to be able to DEFINE tone, but quite another to have a bank of other academic words and skills to DETERMINE tone.

So a kid in K should understand the definition of character, for example, and should be able to determine which traits can be used to described a character in a text.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many people on this board talk about how they pay hundreds of thousands more for homes in specific neighborhoods because of the schools. They believe they are so vastly superior to other neighborhoods because they confer an advantage to the children who attend them. This appears to be a mainstream belief that the county has addressed with its cohort criteria.

Since when is sending your kid to a school with a bunch kids who don’t know any subjects or any language well going to be the preferred education for your literate child? Of course you’re not going to GI ti that school to attend that school, you might go to test in to a center but not year after year.

The idea that there are people who believe that there are kids in school who "don't know any language well."

I'm an ESOL teacher and that absolutely happens. There are students who understand and speak using conversational language in their first language (BICS), but have very little academic language (CALP) in their first language which makes it much harder to learn it in English since they're learning both the concept and the language simultaneously rather than already being familiar with the concept and just learning the English word for it. It becomes very difficult to fill those deep gaps once the content becomes more complex.

http://www.everythingesl.net/inservices/bics_calp.php

As an ESOL teacher, you know the difference between "don't have academic language" and "don't know any language well."

Knowing a language well includes all facets of the language. I can communicate in Spanish in social situations, but I can't describe a 3D shape or explain the water cycle in Spanish (both are part of the Kindergarten curriculum in MCPS). I wouldn't say that I know the language well due to the fact that I only have BICS in Spanish.

So, if Spanish (or Amharic, Chinese, Korean, French etc) is my native language but I don't have academic language in my native language at a Kindergarten level then that would be considered not knowing any language well.

My kids couldn't do that in their native language (English) when they were 5, either. But I don't think anybody on DCUM would claim that my kids, at 5, didn't know any language well.

Sorry if I was unclear. I'm referring to older students who can't do things like describe a 3D shape or explain the water cycle in their native language. That is taught in Kindergarten here, but I have 5th graders who can't do that in their native language much less in English. We're working on filling in the gaps as best we can, but time spent on filling gaps means less time learning grade level content and language.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many people on this board talk about how they pay hundreds of thousands more for homes in specific neighborhoods because of the schools. They believe they are so vastly superior to other neighborhoods because they confer an advantage to the children who attend them. This appears to be a mainstream belief that the county has addressed with its cohort criteria.

Since when is sending your kid to a school with a bunch kids who don’t know any subjects or any language well going to be the preferred education for your literate child? Of course you’re not going to GI ti that school to attend that school, you might go to test in to a center but not year after year.

The idea that there are people who believe that there are kids in school who "don't know any language well."

I'm an ESOL teacher and that absolutely happens. There are students who understand and speak using conversational language in their first language (BICS), but have very little academic language (CALP) in their first language which makes it much harder to learn it in English since they're learning both the concept and the language simultaneously rather than already being familiar with the concept and just learning the English word for it. It becomes very difficult to fill those deep gaps once the content becomes more complex.

http://www.everythingesl.net/inservices/bics_calp.php

As an ESOL teacher, you know the difference between "don't have academic language" and "don't know any language well."

Knowing a language well includes all facets of the language. I can communicate in Spanish in social situations, but I can't describe a 3D shape or explain the water cycle in Spanish (both are part of the Kindergarten curriculum in MCPS). I wouldn't say that I know the language well due to the fact that I only have BICS in Spanish.

So, if Spanish (or Amharic, Chinese, Korean, French etc) is my native language but I don't have academic language in my native language at a Kindergarten level then that would be considered not knowing any language well.

My kids couldn't do that in their native language (English) when they were 5, either. But I don't think anybody on DCUM would claim that my kids, at 5, didn't know any language well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many people on this board talk about how they pay hundreds of thousands more for homes in specific neighborhoods because of the schools. They believe they are so vastly superior to other neighborhoods because they confer an advantage to the children who attend them. This appears to be a mainstream belief that the county has addressed with its cohort criteria.

Since when is sending your kid to a school with a bunch kids who don’t know any subjects or any language well going to be the preferred education for your literate child? Of course you’re not going to GI ti that school to attend that school, you might go to test in to a center but not year after year.

The idea that there are people who believe that there are kids in school who "don't know any language well."

I'm an ESOL teacher and that absolutely happens. There are students who understand and speak using conversational language in their first language (BICS), but have very little academic language (CALP) in their first language which makes it much harder to learn it in English since they're learning both the concept and the language simultaneously rather than already being familiar with the concept and just learning the English word for it. It becomes very difficult to fill those deep gaps once the content becomes more complex.

http://www.everythingesl.net/inservices/bics_calp.php

As an ESOL teacher, you know the difference between "don't have academic language" and "don't know any language well."

Knowing a language well includes all facets of the language. I can communicate in Spanish in social situations, but I can't describe a 3D shape or explain the water cycle in Spanish (both are part of the Kindergarten curriculum in MCPS). I wouldn't say that I know the language well due to the fact that I only have BICS in Spanish.

So, if Spanish (or Amharic, Chinese, Korean, French etc) is my native language but I don't have academic language in my native language at a Kindergarten level then that would be considered not knowing any language well.