Anonymous
Post 02/12/2020 20:55     Subject: MCPS teachers--what kind of abuse from students goes on in your building?
Anonymous wrote:Having the kid go to therapy or talk about their feelings with an adult all day as part of a restorative approach is much more of a consequence than suspending. Suspensions are just days off for them with no consequence. Unless the kid is a true psychopath or has extremely low intellectual capacity, they can really benefit from therapy and talking about their problems. Unfortunately, the admin has to really embrace the process and put in the time to build that relationship. It takes really compassionate and committed admin.


LMAO are you even working in a school? Building relationships as a teacher or administrator is vital. However, you cannot spend hours a day with a troubled student when you have 99 other things to do and multiple kids who need this same level of attention. It would be great in an ideal world. Unfortunately the public school system isn't built to embrace this process.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2020 19:59     Subject: MCPS teachers--what kind of abuse from students goes on in your building?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm also an elementary teacher and we are all at a loss as to what to do. Our admin is out at every lunch/recess and spend time literally camped out in certain grade level hallways in an attempt to keep control over a handful of unruly students. Like another poster mentioned, parents have blocked the school's phone numbers and the kids actually laugh when teachers or administrators threaten to call home. They know their parents either won't be reached or won't care. I know I have a parent who claims her child will be punished but this same kid also tells me he knows how to pester his mom so that she relents and lets him do whatever he wants.


I don't get it, can't the principal first suspend them, and then later move to expel them if they continue the disorder/yelling/fighting? I thought the rules are pretty clear in the student handbooks. Doesn't the principal have the authority to do that? I'm not seeing how their hands are tied down.


If they are a minority it is almost impossible to suspend. The school documented too many racial disparities in incidents (mean more blacks than whites) so many of them go undocumented now. That way the numbers look more even.


Ok so then they are actually suspending them, but just not documenting it. Minority or not, I'm pretty sure the principal has the sole authority to suspend/expel if they are actually disrupting students and teachers and taking away school resources.


Administrator here - you have to document suspensions and they must be approved by my director. PP are correct, if the student is a minority they most likely won't be suspended unless they hit a staff member or the victim's parent will raise a fuss. If it's a repeat offender my director is even less inclined to grant me the suspension. It's INSANE!


And this is exactly why the kids who are acting out in this way aren’t facing consequences. The decision is made by a person sitting in an office who hasn’t actually worked with students in years if not decades. And they sure as hell don’t find themselves being abused by children every single day to understand what that feels like and they also don’t have to see the faces of the other children in the class they’re impacting. They’re purely data points. Nothing more.

And if the student is African American (or maybe Hispanic but only sometimes) then there’s pretty much a 100% chance there won’t be any consequence. Parents will ignore every type of communication we try to initiate with them about concerns and ignore every effort we make to engage them to try to collaborate, but the second their kid does something serious like initiate a fight then they’re in the office guns blazing threatening to sue the school system for discrimination against their kid. So the county’s solution is to not suspend students of color so that they can *celebrate* the data that shows that suspension rates are down and they all congratulate each other and pat themselves on the back for a job well done while they themselves are as far away from these kids as possible! Yay!

I was assaulted both verbally and physically by a student recently and the student faced no consequence. The principal found it to be more important to maintain their buddy buddy relationship with the student so that the student doesn’t treat them like they do all the other adults in the building. Instead I was asked what I did or didn’t do to cause the student to hit me. This was said in front of the student. I’m trying to get out after this year if I can make it until then.






I feel for you, pp. My sister is in a similar position. Our family worries about her safety and the principal is no help. She has been assaulted 4 times this year. I hope you make it through this year.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2020 19:50     Subject: MCPS teachers--what kind of abuse from students goes on in your building?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This year in my elementary school -

*Several teachers kicked and/or punched by students.
*Students getting up and walking out of class all day, every day. Refuse to go to office when principal finds the student. Admin can't put hands on the kids and they know it so they just roam the halls and barge in on other classrooms. Parents refuse to take phone calls from the school.
*Fights in the lunch room and playground several times a week.
*Administrators punched, kicked and spit on.

I'm so shocked parents of well-behaved students aren't calling and complaining. We aren't even a Title 1 school.


C’mon, name the school or at least give the cluster name.


In the Gaithersburg/Germantown area.


We are in Silver Spring and this is absolutely also descriptive of our schools - ES and MS.

Regular fights in MS cafeteria.
Fights DURING classes in ES - especially PE.
Kids always getting up and walking out of classes.
Kids throwing things - chairs, trash cans, desks!

I think if anyone asks their kids, likely in any cluster, they'll be pretty amazed at what their kids witness on a daily basis in MCPS. Ask non-judgemental questions of your kids' experiences and see what they have to say.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2020 19:47     Subject: MCPS teachers--what kind of abuse from students goes on in your building?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm also an elementary teacher and we are all at a loss as to what to do. Our admin is out at every lunch/recess and spend time literally camped out in certain grade level hallways in an attempt to keep control over a handful of unruly students. Like another poster mentioned, parents have blocked the school's phone numbers and the kids actually laugh when teachers or administrators threaten to call home. They know their parents either won't be reached or won't care. I know I have a parent who claims her child will be punished but this same kid also tells me he knows how to pester his mom so that she relents and lets him do whatever he wants.


I don't get it, can't the principal first suspend them, and then later move to expel them if they continue the disorder/yelling/fighting? I thought the rules are pretty clear in the student handbooks. Doesn't the principal have the authority to do that? I'm not seeing how their hands are tied down.


If they are a minority it is almost impossible to suspend. The school documented too many racial disparities in incidents (mean more blacks than whites) so many of them go undocumented now. That way the numbers look more even.


Ok so then they are actually suspending them, but just not documenting it. Minority or not, I'm pretty sure the principal has the sole authority to suspend/expel if they are actually disrupting students and teachers and taking away school resources.


Administrator here - you have to document suspensions and they must be approved by my director. PP are correct, if the student is a minority they most likely won't be suspended unless they hit a staff member or the victim's parent will raise a fuss. If it's a repeat offender my director is even less inclined to grant me the suspension. It's INSANE!


How does your director justify it? What does that conversation go like? Do they agree it’s insane? Where is the pressure coming from that’s on them?


DP

I feel like the pressure comes all the way from the top.

The focus is on Restorative Justice and PBIS. Punishment is not an option. And nobody wants to have incidents reported because it reflects poorly on the school - yes, especially if the child is a minority.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2020 19:44     Subject: Re:MCPS teachers--what kind of abuse from students goes on in your building?
Anonymous wrote:What is the solution? Kids who need support get a 1:1 aide?


DP

We have kids at our MS who have their own aide. It helps a tiny bit, but not enough. DC has a kid in one MS class who has crazy outbursts. The aide can sometimes handle them, but not always.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2020 19:21     Subject: MCPS teachers--what kind of abuse from students goes on in your building?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm also an elementary teacher and we are all at a loss as to what to do. Our admin is out at every lunch/recess and spend time literally camped out in certain grade level hallways in an attempt to keep control over a handful of unruly students. Like another poster mentioned, parents have blocked the school's phone numbers and the kids actually laugh when teachers or administrators threaten to call home. They know their parents either won't be reached or won't care. I know I have a parent who claims her child will be punished but this same kid also tells me he knows how to pester his mom so that she relents and lets him do whatever he wants.


I don't get it, can't the principal first suspend them, and then later move to expel them if they continue the disorder/yelling/fighting? I thought the rules are pretty clear in the student handbooks. Doesn't the principal have the authority to do that? I'm not seeing how their hands are tied down.


If they are a minority it is almost impossible to suspend. The school documented too many racial disparities in incidents (mean more blacks than whites) so many of them go undocumented now. That way the numbers look more even.


Ok so then they are actually suspending them, but just not documenting it. Minority or not, I'm pretty sure the principal has the sole authority to suspend/expel if they are actually disrupting students and teachers and taking away school resources.


Administrator here - you have to document suspensions and they must be approved by my director. PP are correct, if the student is a minority they most likely won't be suspended unless they hit a staff member or the victim's parent will raise a fuss. If it's a repeat offender my director is even less inclined to grant me the suspension. It's INSANE!


How does your director justify it? What does that conversation go like? Do they agree it’s insane? Where is the pressure coming from that’s on them?
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2020 19:14     Subject: MCPS teachers--what kind of abuse from students goes on in your building?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm also an elementary teacher and we are all at a loss as to what to do. Our admin is out at every lunch/recess and spend time literally camped out in certain grade level hallways in an attempt to keep control over a handful of unruly students. Like another poster mentioned, parents have blocked the school's phone numbers and the kids actually laugh when teachers or administrators threaten to call home. They know their parents either won't be reached or won't care. I know I have a parent who claims her child will be punished but this same kid also tells me he knows how to pester his mom so that she relents and lets him do whatever he wants.


I don't get it, can't the principal first suspend them, and then later move to expel them if they continue the disorder/yelling/fighting? I thought the rules are pretty clear in the student handbooks. Doesn't the principal have the authority to do that? I'm not seeing how their hands are tied down.


If they are a minority it is almost impossible to suspend. The school documented too many racial disparities in incidents (mean more blacks than whites) so many of them go undocumented now. That way the numbers look more even.


Ok so then they are actually suspending them, but just not documenting it. Minority or not, I'm pretty sure the principal has the sole authority to suspend/expel if they are actually disrupting students and teachers and taking away school resources.


Administrator here - you have to document suspensions and they must be approved by my director. PP are correct, if the student is a minority they most likely won't be suspended unless they hit a staff member or the victim's parent will raise a fuss. If it's a repeat offender my director is even less inclined to grant me the suspension. It's INSANE!


And this is exactly why the kids who are acting out in this way aren’t facing consequences. The decision is made by a person sitting in an office who hasn’t actually worked with students in years if not decades. And they sure as hell don’t find themselves being abused by children every single day to understand what that feels like and they also don’t have to see the faces of the other children in the class they’re impacting. They’re purely data points. Nothing more.

And if the student is African American (or maybe Hispanic but only sometimes) then there’s pretty much a 100% chance there won’t be any consequence. Parents will ignore every type of communication we try to initiate with them about concerns and ignore every effort we make to engage them to try to collaborate, but the second their kid does something serious like initiate a fight then they’re in the office guns blazing threatening to sue the school system for discrimination against their kid. So the county’s solution is to not suspend students of color so that they can *celebrate* the data that shows that suspension rates are down and they all congratulate each other and pat themselves on the back for a job well done while they themselves are as far away from these kids as possible! Yay!

I was assaulted both verbally and physically by a student recently and the student faced no consequence. The principal found it to be more important to maintain their buddy buddy relationship with the student so that the student doesn’t treat them like they do all the other adults in the building. Instead I was asked what I did or didn’t do to cause the student to hit me. This was said in front of the student. I’m trying to get out after this year if I can make it until then.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2020 19:13     Subject: MCPS teachers--what kind of abuse from students goes on in your building?
Anonymous wrote:Having the kid go to therapy or talk about their feelings with an adult all day as part of a restorative approach is much more of a consequence than suspending. Suspensions are just days off for them with no consequence. Unless the kid is a true psychopath or has extremely low intellectual capacity, they can really benefit from therapy and talking about their problems. Unfortunately, the admin has to really embrace the process and put in the time to build that relationship. It takes really compassionate and committed admin.


Public schools don’t have the funding and it is not their responsibility for kids to have therapy. That falls on the parents, which it should.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2020 19:06     Subject: MCPS teachers--what kind of abuse from students goes on in your building?
Suspensions don't help much at that age. They can't connect the punishment to the act.

Have found a combination of "traditional" punishments and restorative ones work well. Like, time in the office doing makeup work of some kind, plus time with a counselor and writing apology notes.

Anonymous
Post 02/12/2020 17:39     Subject: MCPS teachers--what kind of abuse from students goes on in your building?
Having the kid go to therapy or talk about their feelings with an adult all day as part of a restorative approach is much more of a consequence than suspending. Suspensions are just days off for them with no consequence. Unless the kid is a true psychopath or has extremely low intellectual capacity, they can really benefit from therapy and talking about their problems. Unfortunately, the admin has to really embrace the process and put in the time to build that relationship. It takes really compassionate and committed admin.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2020 17:22     Subject: MCPS teachers--what kind of abuse from students goes on in your building?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm also an elementary teacher and we are all at a loss as to what to do. Our admin is out at every lunch/recess and spend time literally camped out in certain grade level hallways in an attempt to keep control over a handful of unruly students. Like another poster mentioned, parents have blocked the school's phone numbers and the kids actually laugh when teachers or administrators threaten to call home. They know their parents either won't be reached or won't care. I know I have a parent who claims her child will be punished but this same kid also tells me he knows how to pester his mom so that she relents and lets him do whatever he wants.


I don't get it, can't the principal first suspend them, and then later move to expel them if they continue the disorder/yelling/fighting? I thought the rules are pretty clear in the student handbooks. Doesn't the principal have the authority to do that? I'm not seeing how their hands are tied down.


If they are a minority it is almost impossible to suspend. The school documented too many racial disparities in incidents (mean more blacks than whites) so many of them go undocumented now. That way the numbers look more even.


Ok so then they are actually suspending them, but just not documenting it. Minority or not, I'm pretty sure the principal has the sole authority to suspend/expel if they are actually disrupting students and teachers and taking away school resources.


Administrator here - you have to document suspensions and they must be approved by my director. PP are correct, if the student is a minority they most likely won't be suspended unless they hit a staff member or the victim's parent will raise a fuss. If it's a repeat offender my director is even less inclined to grant me the suspension. It's INSANE!
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2020 17:15     Subject: MCPS teachers--what kind of abuse from students goes on in your building?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not a teacher, but in 2nd grade I was volunteering and a kid starting school speaking no English. He was crying most of the day. Just over and over again. The teacher (who was 8 months pregnant at the time) tried to go over and calm him and he punched her as hard as he could twice in the stomach and when she was falling back, another time in the face. Then he ran out in the halls screaming at the top of his lungs. Three people had to subdue him. The kids were a complete mess. My daughter still talks about that day. She had anxiety into going to school for weeks.

This POS was back in school the next day. The teacher never came back. She was supposed to have two more weeks before maternity leave and come back after the baby was born in May, but quit teaching. It was so f'ing traumatic. My daughter missed her teacher and they ended up with some crap sub the rest of the year.

We have had so many issues with ESOL kids. I understand there is a lack of communication and I have always said kids shouldn't be able to start school or be in a generalized classroom until they understand some English, but even still. No reason to be throwing down.

This is the RM cluster.


There’s no need to call a 7 year old a POS. Kids who come in with no English AND a history of trauma are extremely challenging and need a lot of special services/attention. Sometimes the schools know about the trauma history and sometimes they don’t. We have had many kids come into our school speaking no English that don’t react that way at all. The kid is clearly suffering and writing it off as a POS 7 year old is really wrong.


Sorry, but if they punched your child in the face or your pregnant belly you would feel otherwise. I don't give a crap how much trauma someone has in their life. No one goes in to a school punching. And he was 9 and the size of a 12yr old. You know how they send kids to younger grades because they have had limited schooling. Again, not my problem. It traumatized everyone and spooked the teacher out of her profession. So glad the only one you sympathize with is the kid throwing punches. I was there and I saw what he turned into as he was allowed to stay into the school and he was a POS.


Slow down everyone....MCPS is promoting restorative justice!!!
So, everyone come in a circle and talk about this incident.. Oh, wait, the pregnant teacher is not here today and will not be returning...

Ok, then, we count this as done per MCPS practice of restorative justice. No detention, no consequence. Nothing to see here.


Exactly!
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2020 17:15     Subject: MCPS teachers--what kind of abuse from students goes on in your building?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not a teacher, but in 2nd grade I was volunteering and a kid starting school speaking no English. He was crying most of the day. Just over and over again. The teacher (who was 8 months pregnant at the time) tried to go over and calm him and he punched her as hard as he could twice in the stomach and when she was falling back, another time in the face. Then he ran out in the halls screaming at the top of his lungs. Three people had to subdue him. The kids were a complete mess. My daughter still talks about that day. She had anxiety into going to school for weeks.

This POS was back in school the next day. The teacher never came back. She was supposed to have two more weeks before maternity leave and come back after the baby was born in May, but quit teaching. It was so f'ing traumatic. My daughter missed her teacher and they ended up with some crap sub the rest of the year.

We have had so many issues with ESOL kids. I understand there is a lack of communication and I have always said kids shouldn't be able to start school or be in a generalized classroom until they understand some English, but even still. No reason to be throwing down.

This is the RM cluster.


There’s no need to call a 7 year old a POS. Kids who come in with no English AND a history of trauma are extremely challenging and need a lot of special services/attention. Sometimes the schools know about the trauma history and sometimes they don’t. We have had many kids come into our school speaking no English that don’t react that way at all. The kid is clearly suffering and writing it off as a POS 7 year old is really wrong.


Sorry, but if they punched your child in the face or your pregnant belly you would feel otherwise. I don't give a crap how much trauma someone has in their life. No one goes in to a school punching. And he was 9 and the size of a 12yr old. You know how they send kids to younger grades because they have had limited schooling. Again, not my problem. It traumatized everyone and spooked the teacher out of her profession. So glad the only one you sympathize with is the kid throwing punches. I was there and I saw what he turned into as he was allowed to stay into the school and he was a POS.


You are a terrible person and I hope you do pull your kid out of public school and go somewhere else. I sympathize with lots of individuals in your story - including your child - but that still doesn’t justify calling a young child a POS. And my kid looks 2 years older than her actual age - that is no justification for anyone expecting her to have the capacities, knowledge, or abilities of a child of 12 when she is in fact 10. I don’t care how old the kid looked. He’s 9 and a young child who is suffering. That doesn’t make what he did right, but nor does it n NB aje him a POS.


9 is old enough to know not to punch a teacher in the stomach, especially one that is pregnant and trying to comfort him - in any language. What are you smoking PP? You want that type of child in your school. I am not the PP, but I sure don't. Kids deserve to be safe in school and if a child is throwing fists hard enough to knock a teacher over, he deserves to get pulled. Not sent back the next day. That is probably why the teacher left.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2020 17:10     Subject: MCPS teachers--what kind of abuse from students goes on in your building?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm also an elementary teacher and we are all at a loss as to what to do. Our admin is out at every lunch/recess and spend time literally camped out in certain grade level hallways in an attempt to keep control over a handful of unruly students. Like another poster mentioned, parents have blocked the school's phone numbers and the kids actually laugh when teachers or administrators threaten to call home. They know their parents either won't be reached or won't care. I know I have a parent who claims her child will be punished but this same kid also tells me he knows how to pester his mom so that she relents and lets him do whatever he wants.


I don't get it, can't the principal first suspend them, and then later move to expel them if they continue the disorder/yelling/fighting? I thought the rules are pretty clear in the student handbooks. Doesn't the principal have the authority to do that? I'm not seeing how their hands are tied down.


If they are a minority it is almost impossible to suspend. The school documented too many racial disparities in incidents (mean more blacks than whites) so many of them go undocumented now. That way the numbers look more even.


Ok so then they are actually suspending them, but just not documenting it. Minority or not, I'm pretty sure the principal has the sole authority to suspend/expel if they are actually disrupting students and teachers and taking away school resources.


But then has to explain why her suspensions are racially motivated to upper administration? Oh heck no. They know the parents don't care and neither do the kids. All the suspension does is mess up their suspension numbers.
Anonymous
Post 02/12/2020 17:07     Subject: MCPS teachers--what kind of abuse from students goes on in your building?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Not a teacher, but in 2nd grade I was volunteering and a kid starting school speaking no English. He was crying most of the day. Just over and over again. The teacher (who was 8 months pregnant at the time) tried to go over and calm him and he punched her as hard as he could twice in the stomach and when she was falling back, another time in the face. Then he ran out in the halls screaming at the top of his lungs. Three people had to subdue him. The kids were a complete mess. My daughter still talks about that day. She had anxiety into going to school for weeks.

This POS was back in school the next day. The teacher never came back. She was supposed to have two more weeks before maternity leave and come back after the baby was born in May, but quit teaching. It was so f'ing traumatic. My daughter missed her teacher and they ended up with some crap sub the rest of the year.

We have had so many issues with ESOL kids. I understand there is a lack of communication and I have always said kids shouldn't be able to start school or be in a generalized classroom until they understand some English, but even still. No reason to be throwing down.

This is the RM cluster.


There’s no need to call a 7 year old a POS. Kids who come in with no English AND a history of trauma are extremely challenging and need a lot of special services/attention. Sometimes the schools know about the trauma history and sometimes they don’t. We have had many kids come into our school speaking no English that don’t react that way at all. The kid is clearly suffering and writing it off as a POS 7 year old is really wrong.


Sorry, but if they punched your child in the face or your pregnant belly you would feel otherwise. I don't give a crap how much trauma someone has in their life. No one goes in to a school punching. And he was 9 and the size of a 12yr old. You know how they send kids to younger grades because they have had limited schooling. Again, not my problem. It traumatized everyone and spooked the teacher out of her profession. So glad the only one you sympathize with is the kid throwing punches. I was there and I saw what he turned into as he was allowed to stay into the school and he was a POS.


You are a terrible person and I hope you do pull your kid out of public school and go somewhere else. I sympathize with lots of individuals in your story - including your child - but that still doesn’t justify calling a young child a POS. And my kid looks 2 years older than her actual age - that is no justification for anyone expecting her to have the capacities, knowledge, or abilities of a child of 12 when she is in fact 10. I don’t care how old the kid looked. He’s 9 and a young child who is suffering. That doesn’t make what he did right, but nor does it n NB aje him a POS.