Anonymous
04/27/2019 17:18
Subject: Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article
Your husband sounds like an asshole but you, also, are playing martyr. Figure out how to fix those things and you may be on the road to success.
Anonymous
04/27/2019 14:01
Subject: Re:Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article
Pp again. And if you are talking after school activities, there are so many dads. I just think it depends on the activity.
OP, I think you are emasculating your husband. I have 3 kids - 2 boys and a daughter. DH does sports and scouts whenever he is available and I would say there are equal moms and dads present. My daughter is only a toddler but I doubt my DH would take my daughter to Girl Scouts. He would do sports. DH never ever volunteers or wants to go to school events during the day. He will go to concerts and family nights. When kids were younger, we would both attend holiday parties at preschool.
You need to stop micromanaging. He should pick what he does and doesn’t do.
OP, I think you are emasculating your husband. I have 3 kids - 2 boys and a daughter. DH does sports and scouts whenever he is available and I would say there are equal moms and dads present. My daughter is only a toddler but I doubt my DH would take my daughter to Girl Scouts. He would do sports. DH never ever volunteers or wants to go to school events during the day. He will go to concerts and family nights. When kids were younger, we would both attend holiday parties at preschool.
You need to stop micromanaging. He should pick what he does and doesn’t do.
Anonymous
04/27/2019 13:55
Subject: Re:Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DH and I both are highly educated and had ambitious careers. We both had superiors who were at the top of their fields with kids who were out of control. Think Banker from HBS making millions married to law firm partner from Yale Law with kids who were looking at third tier colleges, drug addicts, etc. DH had one boss who was married to his work, got divorced but got the kids but outsourced all childcare and kids were an absolute mess. They were rude to dad and others.
When DH and I got married, we agreed we did not want that type of life where our careers soar and our family suffers. The best role model family we knew were a family whose father was well respected in his field, didn’t necessarily make the most and had a very well educated wife who stayed home with the kids. The dad was involved. The mom was involved. It was obvious the family came first.
DH is the breadwinner. He works 50-60 hours per week. I’d say he works late 2-3 times per week and very little on weekends. He comes home for dinner and is able to do afternoon sports the other days. He handles all sports on weekends. He is a very involved father.
I used to outearn DH when we got married. When we had kids, we were about even. Then I cut down and he went up. Now he earns seven figures and I work very very part time. I have considered going back full time but it is hard enough juggling 3 kids and their activities while I’m home AND have PT help.
You clearly didn’t read the article. If you had you would have seen the point of the article is that you’re a new normal in white collar circles.
This 9-page thread isn't about the article, it's about the particular situation op posted.
OP was contrasting herself to the situation in the article. If you understood the premise you would have realized this was an entirely unhelpful contribution which amounts to “IDK I have the typical life described in the article”
I used to outearn my husband. I actually worked in a more lucrative field. He just is at the very top of his field so he makes seven figures. I potentially could have earned more than him but I guess we will never know.
I do know a few dads who leaned out. They are not totally accepted unfortunately by the SAHMs.
One SAHD works out, cooks and does yard work while kids are in school. I have heard others comment how lazy he is. When he talks to babysitters, it seems like he is flirting but he is a good looking friendly guy. The dad isn’t very involved at school, probably because he doesn’t feel accepted. My child is friends with his and I have texted him while I was at school thinking he forgot or didn’t know. When I text him like I am inviting (I was Room Parent), he came.
There is one stay at home dad at our school who has a big job wife. I have never met or seen the mom. Kid is nice enough. Dad also doesn’t come to pta meetings or school events. He is very active in scouts.
I don’t think it is widely accepted for men to stay home yet.
We do know one guy who is retired at a young age. Both the dad and mom don’t work and both come to school events. I think people just view them as rich and don’t look down at dad.
Anonymous
04/27/2019 13:25
Subject: Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You both work full time. That means you split other stuff 50/50. The burden doesn’t get placed on one spouse because they make less. You’re free to lean out and also still make a ton of money. Your income is over half mil a year. Figure it the eff out.
I agree that $ made isn't the determining factor. But it seemed like OP had the job the required longer hours, more stress, and less flexibility. Because of that he needs to shoulder more of the load. And those types of jobs generally will pay more than ones with reasonable hours, flexibility and less stress.
Not really. OP can find a job with fewer hours. She chooses to work long hours. She could probably find something making 150K. She would work less, their combined income woutld be 350K, and they could split 50/50.
The fact that DH still does laundry while they make 600K and Op works longer hours proves how ridiculous Op and probably her DH's expectations of themselves are.
They both made a decision to prioritize OP's career. Her husband wants the benefits of being married to a high earner without doing any of work.
She can either choose to focus on what she and you assume her husband wants. Or she can choose to see how she can make things work e.g. outsource the hell out so he has more time to chill and focus on the kids.
What do you mean "assume" ? Her husband also made the decision to prioritize her career. It's not a big secret that if both spouses make a decision to prioritize the high earner's career, then the lower earner handles all the hh/kid stuff. Handling hh chores can absolutely involve outsourcing. But guess what? Even if they hire the most amazing hh manager, it still requires some supervision and coordination from one of the parents. Is he going to do this work? The same guy who isn't willing to be in charge of kid stuff and only does hh chores if asked.
Stop pointing fingers. They both made the decision. It does not seem to be working for either of them. So the focus should be on what can change to make things better. And posters are helping Op figure that out: more outsourcing seems to be one of the suggestions. It is a much better suggestion than digging into the mind of Op's husband. What you or OP think he thinks is not very helpful.
It's not about pointing fingers. It's about holding people accounting for their decisions. OP is holding up her end of the agreement by making bank. But her husband is not holding his end of agreement by taking care of all hh/kid stuff so that she focus on work.
Btw, I don't need to guess what her dh is thinking because it was clearly written in the OP that it was a mutual decision. Prioritizing her career is something that he wanted and agreed to. I would assume that he's an adult who is capable of making his own decisions and understanding the consequences of those decisions.
If he was trying very hard and the domestic stuff is just not in his wheelhouse, then okay. But it doesn't seem like he's trying and he's resentful that he has to do anything at all.
Outsourcing can absolutely help but there are deeper issues that outsourcing won't help.
And Op is an adult who is capable of understanding her own decisions which include marrying a man with flaws(which we all have) and expecting miracles.
There will be more room to disect the deeper issues when the superficial isues have been cleared out of the way. Let OP start with the superficial, easy to fix issues and work from there.
Anonymous
04/27/2019 13:22
Subject: Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article
Anonymous wrote:Our aftercare housekeeper does our laundry once a week. Folded and left at Br door. My husband still won’t put it IN his drawers, which are now a mess and barely close. I put them at the foot of his messy dresser and go on w the rest of my life, knowing he’s a slob, a $500k a year total slob.
Can you ask your housekeeper to organize his dresser? Or would he be against that.
He is not a slob. He is your slob. So figure out how to make it less annoying for you so you can focus on his more attractive qualities. Add an extra hour to the housekeeper's schedule to make this problem go away: let the housekeeper organize his dressers.
Anonymous
04/27/2019 13:20
Subject: Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your lives sound miserable. Completely miserable. You BOTH need to lean out. This fight isn’t going to be solved by completely outsourcing. It’s fine to be ambitious but there is a time for everything. Missing everything in preschool is not the time.
Why isn’t both parties leaning out ever a suggestion? Both my husband and I have leaned out. Our lives are amazing. No, we can’t buy a yacht anytime soon, but that’s ok!
+1
+2 and our work is meaningful and intellectually challenging, too
Anonymous
04/27/2019 13:17
Subject: Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You both work full time. That means you split other stuff 50/50. The burden doesn’t get placed on one spouse because they make less. You’re free to lean out and also still make a ton of money. Your income is over half mil a year. Figure it the eff out.
I agree that $ made isn't the determining factor. But it seemed like OP had the job the required longer hours, more stress, and less flexibility. Because of that he needs to shoulder more of the load. And those types of jobs generally will pay more than ones with reasonable hours, flexibility and less stress.
Not really. OP can find a job with fewer hours. She chooses to work long hours. She could probably find something making 150K. She would work less, their combined income woutld be 350K, and they could split 50/50.
The fact that DH still does laundry while they make 600K and Op works longer hours proves how ridiculous Op and probably her DH's expectations of themselves are.
They both made a decision to prioritize OP's career. Her husband wants the benefits of being married to a high earner without doing any of work.
She can either choose to focus on what she and you assume her husband wants. Or she can choose to see how she can make things work e.g. outsource the hell out so he has more time to chill and focus on the kids.
What do you mean "assume" ? Her husband also made the decision to prioritize her career. It's not a big secret that if both spouses make a decision to prioritize the high earner's career, then the lower earner handles all the hh/kid stuff. Handling hh chores can absolutely involve outsourcing. But guess what? Even if they hire the most amazing hh manager, it still requires some supervision and coordination from one of the parents. Is he going to do this work? The same guy who isn't willing to be in charge of kid stuff and only does hh chores if asked.
Stop pointing fingers. They both made the decision. It does not seem to be working for either of them. So the focus should be on what can change to make things better. And posters are helping Op figure that out: more outsourcing seems to be one of the suggestions. It is a much better suggestion than digging into the mind of Op's husband. What you or OP think he thinks is not very helpful.
It's not about pointing fingers. It's about holding people accounting for their decisions. OP is holding up her end of the agreement by making bank. But her husband is not holding his end of agreement by taking care of all hh/kid stuff so that she focus on work.
Btw, I don't need to guess what her dh is thinking because it was clearly written in the OP that it was a mutual decision. Prioritizing her career is something that he wanted and agreed to. I would assume that he's an adult who is capable of making his own decisions and understanding the consequences of those decisions.
If he was trying very hard and the domestic stuff is just not in his wheelhouse, then okay. But it doesn't seem like he's trying and he's resentful that he has to do anything at all.
Outsourcing can absolutely help but there are deeper issues that outsourcing won't help.
Anonymous
04/27/2019 13:09
Subject: Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article
Scouts is mostly Dads.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Sorry but him being embarrassed to attend his children events?!?
Forgot the division of labor, I would have issues with him not being man enough to hang out with his daughter doing something she liked/loved. What if you died? She doesn’t get to do things because she doesn’t have a mom around.
+1 on this mess. Misogyny in plain view that he can’t stand the company of mothers or it somehow emasculates him. Was he some incel prior to meeting you?
Eh, DH here. I’m super involved, work PT, and go to all my kids events. Other moms are friendly but distant. I’m sure he feels isolated.
Yea, I subbed in at “dad” events when dh was deployed. It’s a different dynamic when you’re the only mom or dad there.
What "dad" events are there? I only have DDs so maybe you have DS and it's baseball or something like that?
Anonymous
04/27/2019 13:04
Subject: Re:Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DH and I both are highly educated and had ambitious careers. We both had superiors who were at the top of their fields with kids who were out of control. Think Banker from HBS making millions married to law firm partner from Yale Law with kids who were looking at third tier colleges, drug addicts, etc. DH had one boss who was married to his work, got divorced but got the kids but outsourced all childcare and kids were an absolute mess. They were rude to dad and others.
When DH and I got married, we agreed we did not want that type of life where our careers soar and our family suffers. The best role model family we knew were a family whose father was well respected in his field, didn’t necessarily make the most and had a very well educated wife who stayed home with the kids. The dad was involved. The mom was involved. It was obvious the family came first.
DH is the breadwinner. He works 50-60 hours per week. I’d say he works late 2-3 times per week and very little on weekends. He comes home for dinner and is able to do afternoon sports the other days. He handles all sports on weekends. He is a very involved father.
I used to outearn DH when we got married. When we had kids, we were about even. Then I cut down and he went up. Now he earns seven figures and I work very very part time. I have considered going back full time but it is hard enough juggling 3 kids and their activities while I’m home AND have PT help.
You clearly didn’t read the article. If you had you would have seen the point of the article is that you’re a new normal in white collar circles.
This 9-page thread isn't about the article, it's about the particular situation op posted.
OP was contrasting herself to the situation in the article. If you understood the premise you would have realized this was an entirely unhelpful contribution which amounts to “IDK I have the typical life described in the article”
Anonymous
04/27/2019 12:55
Subject: Re:Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:DH and I both are highly educated and had ambitious careers. We both had superiors who were at the top of their fields with kids who were out of control. Think Banker from HBS making millions married to law firm partner from Yale Law with kids who were looking at third tier colleges, drug addicts, etc. DH had one boss who was married to his work, got divorced but got the kids but outsourced all childcare and kids were an absolute mess. They were rude to dad and others.
When DH and I got married, we agreed we did not want that type of life where our careers soar and our family suffers. The best role model family we knew were a family whose father was well respected in his field, didn’t necessarily make the most and had a very well educated wife who stayed home with the kids. The dad was involved. The mom was involved. It was obvious the family came first.
DH is the breadwinner. He works 50-60 hours per week. I’d say he works late 2-3 times per week and very little on weekends. He comes home for dinner and is able to do afternoon sports the other days. He handles all sports on weekends. He is a very involved father.
I used to outearn DH when we got married. When we had kids, we were about even. Then I cut down and he went up. Now he earns seven figures and I work very very part time. I have considered going back full time but it is hard enough juggling 3 kids and their activities while I’m home AND have PT help.
You clearly didn’t read the article. If you had you would have seen the point of the article is that you’re a new normal in white collar circles.
This 9-page thread isn't about the article, it's about the particular situation op posted.
Anonymous
04/27/2019 12:51
Subject: Re:Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article
Anonymous wrote:DH and I both are highly educated and had ambitious careers. We both had superiors who were at the top of their fields with kids who were out of control. Think Banker from HBS making millions married to law firm partner from Yale Law with kids who were looking at third tier colleges, drug addicts, etc. DH had one boss who was married to his work, got divorced but got the kids but outsourced all childcare and kids were an absolute mess. They were rude to dad and others.
When DH and I got married, we agreed we did not want that type of life where our careers soar and our family suffers. The best role model family we knew were a family whose father was well respected in his field, didn’t necessarily make the most and had a very well educated wife who stayed home with the kids. The dad was involved. The mom was involved. It was obvious the family came first.
DH is the breadwinner. He works 50-60 hours per week. I’d say he works late 2-3 times per week and very little on weekends. He comes home for dinner and is able to do afternoon sports the other days. He handles all sports on weekends. He is a very involved father.
I used to outearn DH when we got married. When we had kids, we were about even. Then I cut down and he went up. Now he earns seven figures and I work very very part time. I have considered going back full time but it is hard enough juggling 3 kids and their activities while I’m home AND have PT help.
You clearly didn’t read the article. If you had you would have seen the point of the article is that you’re a new normal in white collar circles.
Anonymous
04/27/2019 12:48
Subject: Re:Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article
DH and I both are highly educated and had ambitious careers. We both had superiors who were at the top of their fields with kids who were out of control. Think Banker from HBS making millions married to law firm partner from Yale Law with kids who were looking at third tier colleges, drug addicts, etc. DH had one boss who was married to his work, got divorced but got the kids but outsourced all childcare and kids were an absolute mess. They were rude to dad and others.
When DH and I got married, we agreed we did not want that type of life where our careers soar and our family suffers. The best role model family we knew were a family whose father was well respected in his field, didn’t necessarily make the most and had a very well educated wife who stayed home with the kids. The dad was involved. The mom was involved. It was obvious the family came first.
DH is the breadwinner. He works 50-60 hours per week. I’d say he works late 2-3 times per week and very little on weekends. He comes home for dinner and is able to do afternoon sports the other days. He handles all sports on weekends. He is a very involved father.
I used to outearn DH when we got married. When we had kids, we were about even. Then I cut down and he went up. Now he earns seven figures and I work very very part time. I have considered going back full time but it is hard enough juggling 3 kids and their activities while I’m home AND have PT help.
When DH and I got married, we agreed we did not want that type of life where our careers soar and our family suffers. The best role model family we knew were a family whose father was well respected in his field, didn’t necessarily make the most and had a very well educated wife who stayed home with the kids. The dad was involved. The mom was involved. It was obvious the family came first.
DH is the breadwinner. He works 50-60 hours per week. I’d say he works late 2-3 times per week and very little on weekends. He comes home for dinner and is able to do afternoon sports the other days. He handles all sports on weekends. He is a very involved father.
I used to outearn DH when we got married. When we had kids, we were about even. Then I cut down and he went up. Now he earns seven figures and I work very very part time. I have considered going back full time but it is hard enough juggling 3 kids and their activities while I’m home AND have PT help.
Anonymous
04/27/2019 12:41
Subject: Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You don't need as much money as you are making as a family, and making that much money is making your life less enjoyable. You can change this.
Bad answer. Because her dh will STILL refuse to do his share no matter how much or how little she works. This is a DH issue, not a leaning in/big job issue.
So what’s your solution? He’s not likely to change. She could divorce him, but I can assure you that will not lighten her mental load. Or she can use that $200k he brings in to hire some quality help to get her through the child-rearing years.
Or she can accept that he's not going to lean out exactly the way she wants him to, so she can lean out and make their lives the way she wants it. They can live on $200K and someone has to be there for the kids.
Anonymous
04/27/2019 12:39
Subject: Re:Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article
Anonymous wrote:
Your lives sound miserable. Completely miserable. You BOTH need to lean out. This fight isn’t going to be solved by completely outsourcing. It’s fine to be ambitious but there is a time for everything. Missing everything in preschool is not the time.
Why isn’t both parties leaning out ever a suggestion? Both my husband and I have leaned out. Our lives are amazing. No, we can’t buy a yacht anytime soon, but that’s ok!
+1
because OP doesn't want to lean out. That's pretty clear from her post. And that's okay. But she has to accept that her DH doesn't really want to lean out either, or rather, he's happy to lean out at work, but he doesn't want to lean in at home. Fortunately, the massive salary allows for a workable solution if she is willing to give up her resentment and control. At that point, he might let go of his regressive ideas bout parenting work as gendered, I suspect he's doing it in part as a revolt.
Anonymous
04/27/2019 12:32
Subject: Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Your lives sound miserable. Completely miserable. You BOTH need to lean out. This fight isn’t going to be solved by completely outsourcing. It’s fine to be ambitious but there is a time for everything. Missing everything in preschool is not the time.
Why isn’t both parties leaning out ever a suggestion? Both my husband and I have leaned out. Our lives are amazing. No, we can’t buy a yacht anytime soon, but that’s ok!
+1