I know someone who the OP is talking about. She is a young mom who isn’t very educated. I consider her an Instagram mom, she does everything for the likes (I do know her in person though). She is an anti vaxer, knows everything about everything. I’ve talked with her her about a few things over the course of a few years about child development (my career) and she just brushes it all off and has told me and many others that “doctors just don’t know anything.”

Exactly, PP! I do not think there is anything wrong with OP's post at all. She and her husband are the experts and patients are seeing them because of their expertise. If the patient does not want to listen to what the expert says, they should not see the expert and simply rely on WebMD. I am glad to hear that OP and her husband are doing their best but I can only imagine how frustrating it must be dealing with people who refuse to listen to scientific and sound advice.

I am a lawyer and every demographic of parent wants a different reality when they are in my office - young, old, white, poc, single, partnered - does not matter. No one wants to hear what my decades of experience tells me about their (adult or juvenile) child’s criminal case because it’s often bad news. I do the best I can to be informative and compassionate, but it is hard to accept bad news about your kid’s future no matter how old they are.

Anonymous wrote:Ugh. Why do people keep referring to the OP as a "doctor"?

She's a speech therapist. Many of us wouldn't even consider that to be a medical professional. It's basically a glorified teacher. Actually, I have a lot more respect for actual teachers.

Anyway, I'm late 30s, highly educated, and I think for myself too. Couldn't care less if doctors think I'm "difficult". Guess it's lucky for all involved that we choose to live a very healthy lifestyle and so don't have much need for them anyway.

Some of us live a healthy lifestyle yet still have to contend with chronic diseases. I am also educated but recognize and appreciate the fact that my specialists understand my disease in ways I never will (I am not a medical professional).

Sure, I advocate for myself and do my own research but I would never pretend to be as knowledgeable as my rheumatologist. That's just ignorance.

I can only assume many of the people who think they know more than their doctors haven't had to deal with a major or long term health issue. Check your privilege.

I understand, OP. I'm also a doctor and have noticed that more and more young (often white and uneducated) mothers are making choices similar to those that more wealthy parents have been making in the recent past (such as antivax, antifluoride, etc). I get the feeling that they're doing this to emulate that population and because they seriously think that by making these choices, they're making better decisions for their family. It makes me very sad. And I can't help but get frustrated/angry when I am going through charts and I note that a patient didn't agree for a newborn to get Vit K or Hep B vaccine.

Anonymous wrote:...Why am I even jumping in to this?

Oh, because I was a broke single young mom.

Look, I don't think OP was particularly condescending. She acknowledges that these are good moms trying their best. It IS damn difficult to face the world and raise your child when the world is trying so very, very hard to tell you you're garbage, and I can think of so many ways I tried to over-compensate as a result.

Plus, my access to care of any kind seemed so damn tenuous, and like one dismissal was going to doom us to not being able to survive. That zeal for research felt absolutely necessary to me. So yeah, it doesn't surprise me that OP sees this attitude within this particular demographic.

Smart post. There is similar research in public health right now on why minoritarian communities are more vulnerable to anti-vaccine propaganda.

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Anonymous wrote:You seem to be throwing all kinds of stuff into the same bag. Are we supposed to blindly follow your orders?

I am actually an older mother, a professional with a PhD. I have several doctors in my family and I am an immigrant from Europe. That provides for a bit perspective.

American doctors like to do to diagnostics that don’t require any skills. They also jump on the latest fad - the most recent research - as to opposes to fundamentals. Ironically in doing so they are more similar to the young mothers you describe here. And yes, putting a young child under so that you can conveniently fill cavities in the baby teeth is insane.

You are so right! Better to let the cavities advance to the point of abscess - what’s a little pain and swelling anyway? I’m sure the body will heal that naturally. And besides, that little hellion Larlo, who will absolutely not cooperate and almost bit your finger off at the last appointment? Yeah, rotten teeth are his punishment for being a little sh!t in the dental chair. He doesn't deserve to have a healthy mouth. Or better yet, let’s fill his 20 teeth ONE BY ONE in the dental office and traumatize him 20 times over. Yeah, that sounds like a good plan.

Not to mention failure to treat cavities in baby teeth can lead to infecting the adult teeth.

Interesting that European dentists agree with treating cavities in baby teeth.

they do treat cavities but not at al coats and often won’t use anesthesia. anesthesia is for lazy parents and incompetent dentists.

And there you have it folks. No rational conversation to be had here.

And seriously, isn’t this the EXACT thing that patients/clients are now railing against? You don’t want them to have any rational discussion, yiu juat wnt them to accept whatever you say.

And no, not every European dentist agrees with treating cavities. Holle Formula is still formula. European children are given alcohol much earlier than the age of 21. So what’s your point? Different things for different people. Make your decisions, and question who is giving you information,

Your major dental professional associations do, as do your pediatric medical care associations.

Yes, you can find someone who is off in left field on any topic, but I don't think this is any more convincing for your argument than shouting in all-caps, or bolding, or the leaps of logic are.

Way to miss the point, and focus on the minutiae rather than the message.

Many doctors do not respect the major associations, or their recommendations, especially if they don’t make them money.

being a doctor does not mean you won’t be questioned, or are above questioning. Europe and other areas have different standards. You’re not more special because your paid for a specific education. The people they pay you get to get to ask you questions, much like they probably have to, despite your preconceptions about them. Because you think you’re better, doesn’t mean you are. A plumber still needs to come fix your toilet.

haha! Actually, doctors are more "special" and knowledgable because they paid for a specific education. An education whose schools have very stringent admission standards that the vast majority of people can't meet. My husband is a physician, and in medical school he studied for at least 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. His work ethic and that of his classmates amazed me. Then in residency and fellowship he worked 80 hours a week receiving hands-on training. You can't replicate that education by reading a couple of articles on the internet. In fact, the vast majority of people are not literate in biomedical science and are unable to correctly read and interpret research studies. This is precisely why uneducated moms shouldn't be "doing their own research." They aren't capable of the critical analysis necessary to understand that Natural News, Mercola.com, and the NVIC are garbage websites that spout inaccurate information.

I have a PhD in research and multiple other degrees (have also taught medical students) so I’m speaking from the position of one with similar years of training. Your husband is incredibly privileged to have access to this education and means of making a living. He should use his privilege to try to understand, empower, and help people with less education. Not look down on them or feel annoyed when they don’t understand medical knowledge.

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Anonymous wrote:You are a health practitioner, and need to get over your judgment and generalities, or get out of your profession.

You were once a young, inexperienced person. Maybe you didn’t have the internet and media at your fingertips, which is a game changer for how ANYONE gains information.

Seems to me you and your husband aren’t good health educators, or very good with communicating with your clientele on their level. Of course, based on your dripping with judgement and disdain post, I’m not surprised that you’re that way in real life. They’re not listening and communicating with you honestly because they KNOW you think you’re better than them. Sooner or later, they’ll find other practices, which, the universe willing, they should.

I’ve found the anti-vaxer.

OP doesn’t sound any more judgmental than anyone else who has to deal with people with no education who think they know all.

Yes, even doctors are allowed to be frustrated with their clients. I’m
A teacher and I’m constantly annoyed with parents. It’s frustrating ing when people think they know best, as if my education and experience means nothing.

Can’t imagine how frustrated I’d be if I was a doctor and spent twice as long in school only to have some 22-year-old tell me I was wrong.

Nope. I’m a MUCH older mom, and children are vaccinated for even stuff that many people delay. I got boosters during pregnancy. I follow antibiotics to the T. I understand science. But then again, I was a nurse for years, and now work in a completely unrelated STEM field.

Here’s the thing. Your, and OP’s b is primarily to cOmmunicate and to EDUCATE. You both sound like you’re in the wrong field. No one is telling you you’re wrong, so you need to get TF over your ego, and figure out how to take these people to a higher level of wellness and understanding. It’s your JOB. FWIW, the age discrimination is just annoying, because any client (or patient or student or whatever) falls into the same category of now having the years of education that you do. You ask leading questions, yiu address their concerns, you educate based on that.

This is why med school (and entrance into other professions) should be based on other things purely than just grades. You’re dealing with real people, in real circumstance, at their weakest and most afraid. The fact that you can diagnose and prescribe does not make yiu a good practitioner. A better role may be research.

I think the problem is communication and education from medical personnel can't compete against Dr. Google and social media.

Sure it can. The problem / reality is many doctors fall on to “I am older, come from a better social class, and am more educated than you are, ” and never actually choose to discuss the WHY with their clients.

You’re a bitter person. Yikes.

Anonymous wrote:...Why am I even jumping in to this?

Oh, because I was a broke single young mom.

Look, I don't think OP was particularly condescending. She acknowledges that these are good moms trying their best. It IS damn difficult to face the world and raise your child when the world is trying so very, very hard to tell you you're garbage, and I can think of so many ways I tried to over-compensate as a result.

Plus, my access to care of any kind seemed so damn tenuous, and like one dismissal was going to doom us to not being able to survive. That zeal for research felt absolutely necessary to me. So yeah, it doesn't surprise me that OP sees this attitude within this particular demographic.

This is one of the only rational posts on this thread.

People tend to feel disadvantaged and frustrated when they're not able to control their lives. Add to this being a young woman (and/or minority), and a mother, and the anxiety ratchets up. A common response to high levels of anxiety is to overcompensate and try to control everything in your environment.

Combine that dynamic with an expensive, fragmented, and paternalistic health care system, high rates of burnout for doctors, and suddenly it's easy to imagine this phenomenon.

Anonymous wrote:...Why am I even jumping in to this?

Oh, because I was a broke single young mom.

Look, I don't think OP was particularly condescending. She acknowledges that these are good moms trying their best. It IS damn difficult to face the world and raise your child when the world is trying so very, very hard to tell you you're garbage, and I can think of so many ways I tried to over-compensate as a result.

Plus, my access to care of any kind seemed so damn tenuous, and like one dismissal was going to doom us to not being able to survive. That zeal for research felt absolutely necessary to me. So yeah, it doesn't surprise me that OP sees this attitude within this particular demographic.

I think research is essential as is listening to your Doctor. The OP was specific about parents not giving their kids needed antibiotics or a complete series of antibiotics because the news is talking about people being prescribed too many antibiotics. It does nto sound like the example she was giving were parents who have said what I have said, "Hey, the news is talking about antibiotics are being over prescribed. What is about this illness that makes you think I need to take antibiotics and are there any alternatives to antibiotics? What are the pros and cons to the other course of treatment?"

If my Doctor can give me a good explanation for why antibiotics are needed, strep rarely heals itself and can lead to these other nasty illnesses if not properly treated with the following side effects, then I take the antibiotic. If the doctor says, there is an alternative and it means a longer recovery and potentially feeling worse. If you see these symptoms, come back and we will need to do antibiotics, I might go no antibiotics.

I don't think the issue is that people are researching, but that people are using questionable research (in the case of vaccines) and news stories (antibiotics) to ignore their Doctor.

And that leads to kids hospitalized or the adults. I feel worse for the kids because they have no choice.

I don't think it is just younger people, I think that there are a lot of folks who don't trust their Doctor due to negative experiences and a rise of bad information being made more readily available due to the internet and social media.

...Why am I even jumping in to this?

Oh, because I was a broke single young mom.

Look, I don't think OP was particularly condescending. She acknowledges that these are good moms trying their best. It IS damn difficult to face the world and raise your child when the world is trying so very, very hard to tell you you're garbage, and I can think of so many ways I tried to over-compensate as a result.

Plus, my access to care of any kind seemed so damn tenuous, and like one dismissal was going to doom us to not being able to survive. That zeal for research felt absolutely necessary to me. So yeah, it doesn't surprise me that OP sees this attitude within this particular demographic.

You know, there may be some doctors who treat everyone like a piece of trash.
But there are a lot more doctors who treat all people with humanity, dignity, and respect. Even those people (the homeless, alcoholics, addicts, pedophiles, murderers, prostitutes) that many people would consider inhuman pieces of trash.