Anonymous
04/15/2019 17:22
Subject: Re:Subtle signs of class
1. Class, in the economic or social sense, is not the same as "classy." OP's post asked about class, not classiness.
2. A lot of posters seem to be interpreting the thread as seeking a definition of what is upperclass. The OP doesn't specify. The question is more what do you notice that would indicate socioeconomic markers of any class. Upper-middle, middle, low, etc. (Speaking for myself I have never been in the home of someone truly in the upper class in terms of wealth or status, and I doubt many DCUMers have either unless they're in with the Kennedys.)
3. What's with the obsessive focus on WASPs and whether they are actually rich or just maintain old upper-class habits? That's more cultural than a class marker, no? Class markers among other groups would be very different, one assumes.
2. A lot of posters seem to be interpreting the thread as seeking a definition of what is upperclass. The OP doesn't specify. The question is more what do you notice that would indicate socioeconomic markers of any class. Upper-middle, middle, low, etc. (Speaking for myself I have never been in the home of someone truly in the upper class in terms of wealth or status, and I doubt many DCUMers have either unless they're in with the Kennedys.)
3. What's with the obsessive focus on WASPs and whether they are actually rich or just maintain old upper-class habits? That's more cultural than a class marker, no? Class markers among other groups would be very different, one assumes.
Anonymous
04/15/2019 17:19
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They don’t talk about money.
Kids have surnames for names.
They never seem ruffled. Any problem is solvable and they have a family safety net.
Not overly concerned with organic food, toys, clothes, etc.
Will offer you an alcoholic beverage any time of day you pop by.
This is pretty much the only accurate description in this entire thread. The surnames can be middle names.
Thank you. Agreed.
Isn't this just a description of WASPs? Are WASPs the only people with "class" in this country? Genuinely intrigued - I'm European and what I have seen of WASP culture is totally unappealing and not aspirational. Can one not have class and not be a WASP?
No it’s not a description of WASPS. It seems to you it is though.
Anonymous
04/15/2019 17:16
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:No tattoos, proper grammar, no smoking, well fitted and tasteful clothes, shoes not down at the heels, well spoken and thoughtful, not reactionary or too loud in appearance or demeanor, everyone in family has at least a Bachelor's, ability to discuss politics or world dynamics without getting personal or overly hysterical, limited and tasteful FB/special media posts
Lots of upper class folks in worn shoes, especially among the waspy horsy types.
This. Travel the wealthier town in New England. The older the clothes, the richer the person.
Yes. There is a look that is cultivated in New England Prep schools. The worn loafers, polos or oxford shirts, shorts. They look polished even in their down time. My dad was not rich, but went on scholarship to private prep HS and he had the 'look'. It's not pretentious, but if you have been around those crowds you spot it right away. Most of my family in Connecticut look like this. My dad's yar/garden clothes were old Lacoste shirts, old khaki shorts. He wasn't in t-shirts a whole lot or 'gym' type shorts. There is not a lot of flash. Expensive pieces, worn well. Not necessarily brand-obvious. 1
And the surname thing tends to be 'nouveau'. You get many that are the III or IV---but their names can be Robert, John, Paul, Charles, etc. The lower class American has adopted surnames as first names. All of those little McKenzies, Parkers, etc.
Well at least you got the New England part correct.
Anonymous
04/15/2019 17:03
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Small kitchen, lots of guest rooms, old American cars with some dirt on them. Persian rugs obtained by an older relative whist traveling in Iraq or Yemen in the early 1900s. Vacations include things like helicopter trips to hunt moose or elk, or expeditions on camel with Bedouins. Art includes antiquities, framed handwritten poems signed by Maya Angelou, and mounted heads of animals killed while hunting.
You mean, Doctor Maya Angelou?
-Opfra
Anonymous
04/15/2019 16:58
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They don’t talk about money.
Kids have surnames for names.
They never seem ruffled. Any problem is solvable and they have a family safety net.
Not overly concerned with organic food, toys, clothes, etc.
Will offer you an alcoholic beverage any time of day you pop by.
This is pretty much the only accurate description in this entire thread. The surnames can be middle names.
Thank you. Agreed.
Isn't this just a description of WASPs? Are WASPs the only people with "class" in this country? Genuinely intrigued - I'm European and what I have seen of WASP culture is totally unappealing and not aspirational. Can one not have class and not be a WASP?
No. A wasp is any “white Anglo-Saxon Protestant.” A nascar, tattooed red neck can be a wasp. It’s not a very descriptive term. I have several college friends who are OLD money from Richmond (FFV, CCV, St. Catherine’s, the whole 9 yards) and the above describes them perfectly.
That's what WASP stands for, yes, but "a WASP" is sort of like "a hippie" or "a bro" or "a soccer mom"- it encompasses a certain look/attitude/culture when you describe someone as "a WASP". This probably sounds offensive but the closest thing I can think is when someone says "that person is really Jewish". They don't mean "that person attends temple and practices Judaism". They mean something else more cultural in terms of how the person presents themselves, dresses, acts, etc. (and no, I would never describe someone that way because it does sound offensive)
Anonymous
04/15/2019 16:52
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:No tattoos, proper grammar, no smoking, well fitted and tasteful clothes, shoes not down at the heels, well spoken and thoughtful, not reactionary or too loud in appearance or demeanor, everyone in family has at least a Bachelor's, ability to discuss politics or world dynamics without getting personal or overly hysterical, limited and tasteful FB/special media posts
Lots of upper class folks in worn shoes, especially among the waspy horsy types.
This. Travel the wealthier town in New England. The older the clothes, the richer the person.
Yes. There is a look that is cultivated in New England Prep schools. The worn loafers, polos or oxford shirts, shorts. They look polished even in their down time. My dad was not rich, but went on scholarship to private prep HS and he had the 'look'. It's not pretentious, but if you have been around those crowds you spot it right away. Most of my family in Connecticut look like this. My dad's yar/garden clothes were old Lacoste shirts, old khaki shorts. He wasn't in t-shirts a whole lot or 'gym' type shorts. There is not a lot of flash. Expensive pieces, worn well. Not necessarily brand-obvious. 1
And the surname thing tends to be 'nouveau'. You get many that are the III or IV---but their names can be Robert, John, Paul, Charles, etc. The lower class American has adopted surnames as first names. All of those little McKenzies, Parkers, etc.
Anonymous
04/15/2019 16:44
Subject: Re:Subtle signs of class
I am a foreigner. What is so classy about WASPs?
They have no taste and aren’t sophisticated. I find them rather provincial.
They have no taste and aren’t sophisticated. I find them rather provincial.
Anonymous
04/15/2019 16:41
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They don’t talk about money.
Kids have surnames for names.
They never seem ruffled. Any problem is solvable and they have a family safety net.
Not overly concerned with organic food, toys, clothes, etc.
Will offer you an alcoholic beverage any time of day you pop by.
This is pretty much the only accurate description in this entire thread. The surnames can be middle names.
Thank you. Agreed.
Isn't this just a description of WASPs? Are WASPs the only people with "class" in this country? Genuinely intrigued - I'm European and what I have seen of WASP culture is totally unappealing and not aspirational. Can one not have class and not be a WASP?
No. A wasp is any “white Anglo-Saxon Protestant.” A nascar, tattooed red neck can be a wasp. It’s not a very descriptive term. I have several college friends who are OLD money from Richmond (FFV, CCV, St. Catherine’s, the whole 9 yards) and the above describes them perfectly.
Anonymous
04/15/2019 14:23
Subject: Subtle signs of class
I guess we don’t socialize outside our middle/upper middle class group often. There are a few homes we visit of our children's friends that have obviously benefited from a professional interior designer - I assume those people are wealthier than me - but we’re all the same class.
Some families display things that clue me in that we have different values, but again not a different class. I grew up lower middle class and my husband grew up borderline rich, so I feel like we can fit in most places and don’t look down on others.
Some families display things that clue me in that we have different values, but again not a different class. I grew up lower middle class and my husband grew up borderline rich, so I feel like we can fit in most places and don’t look down on others.
Anonymous
04/15/2019 14:09
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They don’t talk about money.
Kids have surnames for names.
They never seem ruffled. Any problem is solvable and they have a family safety net.
Not overly concerned with organic food, toys, clothes, etc.
Will offer you an alcoholic beverage any time of day you pop by.
This is pretty much the only accurate description in this entire thread. The surnames can be middle names.
My child has multiple English surnames for middle names (they're all family names).
So only white people can be upper class?
Anonymous
04/15/2019 14:04
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Clothes look just generally expensive, not labels just... quality.
The things they complain about. My neighbor is quietly super rich and he came back from an international flight in business class and complained that the fact that there was one customs guy at Logan was gonna make the country look bad. I mean, maybe true but tree kind of thing only a rich person would be in a place to notice.
LOL. No.
What? Lol I have been around rich people my whole life. I'm related to a bunch, this is how I can always tell!
Being rich doesn't mean being classy! Complaining about some poor customs worker at Logan after you just completed a transatlantic business class flight smacks of being low class, to me. Having class would be graciously making the grumpy customs worker actually look and sound more polite by your responses to him! "Hurry up and give me your passport, you old man!" "I'm terribly sorry, I'm holding you up. Of course you're eager to keep the line moving. Here is my passport. Have a lovely day" spoken without any snark.
Anonymous
04/15/2019 13:57
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Clothes look just generally expensive, not labels just... quality.
The things they complain about. My neighbor is quietly super rich and he came back from an international flight in business class and complained that the fact that there was one customs guy at Logan was gonna make the country look bad. I mean, maybe true but tree kind of thing only a rich person would be in a place to notice.
I think a petty complaint like that is actually fairly low class.
Anonymous
04/15/2019 13:56
Subject: Re:Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Generally, yes. Books are a definite sign of class as is a tasteful home. Clean and calm and smells fresh (like outside fresh not plug-ins stink).
Rows of mass market paperbacks by Stephen King, Dean Koontz, et al are not signs of class. If anything they signal a limited sphere of knowledge.
Stephen King is actually one of the best writers of his generation. Snobs don’t recognize his skill.
First post on this thread- just wanted to say I totally agree!!! Kind of like how Dickens or Jane Austen were kind of poo-pooed in their day as pop fiction, unserious writers. And now they are considered classics. I'd like to think that in 200 years, kids will read The Stand in freshman year English and talk about the good vs evil dystopian themes
Anonymous
04/15/2019 13:54
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They don’t talk about money.
Kids have surnames for names.
They never seem ruffled. Any problem is solvable and they have a family safety net.
Not overly concerned with organic food, toys, clothes, etc.
Will offer you an alcoholic beverage any time of day you pop by.
This is pretty much the only accurate description in this entire thread. The surnames can be middle names.
Thank you. Agreed.
Isn't this just a description of WASPs? Are WASPs the only people with "class" in this country? Genuinely intrigued - I'm European and what I have seen of WASP culture is totally unappealing and not aspirational. Can one not have class and not be a WASP?
Anonymous
04/15/2019 13:50
Subject: Subtle signs of class
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:They don’t talk about money.
Kids have surnames for names.
They never seem ruffled. Any problem is solvable and they have a family safety net.
Not overly concerned with organic food, toys, clothes, etc.
Will offer you an alcoholic beverage any time of day you pop by.
This is pretty much the only accurate description in this entire thread. The surnames can be middle names.
My child has multiple English surnames for middle names (they're all family names).