Anonymous wrote:Pretty soon we will have spent more time and energy condemning Ilhan Omar for her statements that aren't actually anti-semitic, than we did condemning Steve King for numerous statements that actually were white supremacist.

And, yet, Steve King was removed from his committee assignments quite promptly while there seems to be no consideration of removing Omar despite the fact that many find her comments anti-semitic.

Pretty soon we will have spent more time and energy condemning Ilhan Omar for her statements that aren't actually anti-semitic, than we did condemning Steve King for numerous statements that actually were white supremacist.

Anonymous wrote:The issue with Omar's comments is she questioned the loyalty of Americans who support Israel and claimed politicians only support Israel because of big money paid to them by a powerful Jewish lobby.
She cannot see that the support has everything to do with the fact that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East that supports Western values and is surrounded by nations that would like to wipe Israel off the map.

She did not question the loyalty of Americans who support Israel. That is a misrepresentation of her words. Both she and AIPAC agree that money has an important influence on politicians.

Anonymous wrote:The issue with Omar's comments is she questioned the loyalty of Americans who support Israel and claimed politicians only support Israel because of big money paid to them by a powerful Jewish lobby.
She cannot see that the support has everything to do with the fact that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East that supports Western values and is surrounded by nations that would like to wipe Israel off the map.

Wrong, everyone sees that Israel is a democracy and that it's surrounded by hostile nations. But that said, Israel being a democracy and being surrounded by hostile nations still doesn't justify Israel shooting children and journalists, violating UN agreements, building illegal settlements and other things, nor does it justify Americans and American politicians turning a blind eye to all of that, and apparently you don't see that. Israel doesn't *have* to continue those policies in order to survive and succeed. And to deny that AIPAC isn't a powerful lobby and that they throw a lot of money around is simply not credible as it's right in AIPAC's FEC and lobbying filings. There is nothing wrong let alone anti-semitic with stating those kinds of things, as Ilhan Omar has.

The issue with Omar's comments is she questioned the loyalty of Americans who support Israel and claimed politicians only support Israel because of big money paid to them by a powerful Jewish lobby.
She cannot see that the support has everything to do with the fact that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East that supports Western values and is surrounded by nations that would like to wipe Israel off the map.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't always agree with Tom Friedman, but this is a very concise summation of where he thinks Omar is on the issue. It's worth the two minute read.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/06/opinion/israel-ilhan-omar.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

His main issue seems to be that she supports BDS, while also having criticisms of it. But, he like her, doesn't believe in passing laws against it. But, in this part he is completely wrong:

"And one issue she seems to have seized on is the alleged dual loyalty of Jews to America and Israel."

As I have said repeatedly, this is a mischaracterization of what she said at Busboys and Poets. She didn't question or suggest dual loyalty among Jews. To the contrary, she said she understood their support for the country and compared it to her children's support for Somalia. What she questioned was political pressure to support another country, the example being the anti-BDS law which enables punishing US citizens for exercising their 1st Amendment rights in order to protect the interests of Israel.

Exactly right - and it's easy to trace the political pressure. AIPAC pumps huge amounts of money into politics on both sides of the aisle, in some cycles even outspending the NRA per FEC filings. Ilhan Omar has made reference to that as well and was denounced as "raising old stereotypes about Jews and money" for it despite it being very much a true and accurate statement.

None of those things are anti-Semitic, yet Ilhan Omar is accused of being anti-Semitic for nothing more than making those kinds of factual statements.

Calling on Israel to stop shooting children and journalists at the border (as they have repeatedly done) is also not anti-Semitic. Criticizing the Netanyahu government on not following UN agreements on settlements and other things is not anti-Semitic. But sadly we *are* in fact living in times where even any legitimate, fact-based statement that is critical of Israel is denounced as anti-Semitic. There just isn't any disputing that given the facts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So in your mind it’s a minor spat and Palestinians aren’t second class citizens of nowhere right?

It is a major conflict that has great cost to both sides, and the failure to resolve it is due to actions by people on both sides.

But we are not going to solve it hear, and we should not have to solve in order to condemn a US congress member saying (yes, sorry, I do not agree with Jeff's interpretation) hateful things about US citizens.

Jeff this is precisely what my friends tell me happens in the UK - people say over the top hateful things (worse than what Omar said, BTW) and when a Jew complains, the subject is changed to Israel (and often as here, a shallow, one sided approach)

I have news for you. The harassment of Jews in Europe has only accelerated the movement of Jews to Israel. If its not already happening in the UK, it is likely soon. And believe me, the people chased out of Europe are not inclined to sympathy for the left when they arrive in Israel.

You know that this is not why Jews are leaving Europe, particularly London. The growing populations of Muslims bothers them.

Anti-semitism is on the rise in the US and it has nothing to do with Muslims.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So in your mind it’s a minor spat and Palestinians aren’t second class citizens of nowhere right?

It is a major conflict that has great cost to both sides, and the failure to resolve it is due to actions by people on both sides.

But we are not going to solve it hear, and we should not have to solve in order to condemn a US congress member saying (yes, sorry, I do not agree with Jeff's interpretation) hateful things about US citizens.

Jeff this is precisely what my friends tell me happens in the UK - people say over the top hateful things (worse than what Omar said, BTW) and when a Jew complains, the subject is changed to Israel (and often as here, a shallow, one sided approach)

I have news for you. The harassment of Jews in Europe has only accelerated the movement of Jews to Israel. If its not already happening in the UK, it is likely soon. And believe me, the people chased out of Europe are not inclined to sympathy for the left when they arrive in Israel.

You know that this is not why Jews are leaving Europe, particularly London. The growing populations of Muslims bothers them.

Maybe they should be more worried about the Europeans. The Nazis weren’t Muslim. Neither was the Spanish Inquisition.

Meanwhile mayhem broke out today in the Democratic Caucus meeting over censuring Omar.

Anonymous wrote:Deplorables gotta stick together

https://tyt.com/stories/4vZLCHuQrYE4uKagy0oyMA/1S2B8FbUiUKNRni1nowvfL

ACT for America was one of the groups that signed the letter that Trump tweeted about calling for Omar to be removed from the Foreign Relations Committee. So you have an Islamophobic group complaining about anti-Semitism.

Deplorables gotta stick together

https://tyt.com/stories/4vZLCHuQrYE4uKagy0oyMA/1S2B8FbUiUKNRni1nowvfL

The digital mob doesn’t wait for facts, JS.
I’m disappointed in Nancy Pelosi on this. She had been doing so great since taking the lead, but this is disappointing.
We need be critical thinkers. We need to wait and listen. The rush to judgment is hurting all people.

Anonymous wrote:Ilhan Omar is beautiful and brave.

What is with this kind of adulation? It's bizarre and frankly, frightening. What I thought was the new fringe of the party is turning out to be actually the party itself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So in your mind it’s a minor spat and Palestinians aren’t second class citizens of nowhere right?

It is a major conflict that has great cost to both sides, and the failure to resolve it is due to actions by people on both sides.

But we are not going to solve it hear, and we should not have to solve in order to condemn a US congress member saying (yes, sorry, I do not agree with Jeff's interpretation) hateful things about US citizens.

Jeff this is precisely what my friends tell me happens in the UK - people say over the top hateful things (worse than what Omar said, BTW) and when a Jew complains, the subject is changed to Israel (and often as here, a shallow, one sided approach)

I have news for you. The harassment of Jews in Europe has only accelerated the movement of Jews to Israel. If its not already happening in the UK, it is likely soon. And believe me, the people chased out of Europe are not inclined to sympathy for the left when they arrive in Israel.

You know that this is not why Jews are leaving Europe, particularly London. The growing populations of Muslims bothers them.

Uhhhhh, I'm pretty neutral on Israel, but it is not accurate to say that the growing pop of Muslims bothers them. The ones I know who have left don't feel safe/comfortable as a Jew In the UK right now. Fwiw, a couple acquaintances (friends of friends) who are Jewish and moved to Israel are involved in pretty

intensive peace work with Palestinians in Israel.

What makes them not feel safe/comfortable as a Jew in the UK?

Ilhan Omar is a very brave woman.