Anonymous
07/27/2018 08:18
Subject: What do people consider the most prestigious college in the Midwest?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Chicago, Wash U, Northwestern and Notre Dame are all prestigious.
I grew up in the Midwest, and no one would rank ND in the same class as UChicago and Northwestern.
It's interesting, though. Discussions about where to apply here on DCUM always include UChicago and UMich. Northwestern is barely mentioned...and Wash U and ND almost never. Not sure what that means...
But I would pick UChicago and UMich overall. UIUC for engineering only. Purdue for engineering, but lower than the other three.
Grinnell and Carleton for LACs.
It means ND is a Catholic school so only Catholics rank it high. It's like saying BYU is the best in the mid-west/Utah area. Yes, it's a premier destination for those in the faith but not so much for others.
This is such complete BS. There is no comparison between BYU and ND, just as there is no comparison between Catholics and Mormons in the US. There are more than 20 self-identified Catholics in this country per Mormon -- Catholicism is by far the largest single religion in the US and has a very diverse membership. Unlike BYU, ND is also by every quantifiable measure, one of the elite undergraduate institutions in this country. Its endowment, admissions statistics, and geographical distribution of its students are top 10-15 -- its endowment is larger than Chicago, Cornell, Duke and Wash U. MIT isn't attractive to most non-STEM students. Does that mean that MIT isn't a "premiere institution?"
I smell bigotry . . .
Anonymous
07/27/2018 08:04
Subject: What do people consider the most prestigious college in the Midwest?
Anonymous wrote:Notre Dame isn’t known for being intellectual but to the masses it has a lot of cachet. Especially in the Midwest.
Nobody gives a damn about Chicago. Most have never heard of it.
Our family is mostly from Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas and parts of lower Michigan. The PP's post is exactly reflective of the perspective of our friends and relatives! They look at Notre Dame, a few Big 10 schools (Northwestern, Michigan, Wisconsin or Minnesota), Creighton, and then they look to schools on both coasts. STEM types in Michigan also look at Michigan Tech. Medical types also look at Minnesota for post-grad work b/c of Mayo.
If they have heard of it, most of them would never even consider looking at Chicago. After reading the posts by the Chicago booster/s, I completely agree with them!
Anonymous
07/27/2018 05:54
Subject: What do people consider the most prestigious college in the Midwest?
Has our drunk-typing troll really submitted "barf" as an argument?
Anonymous
07/27/2018 01:06
Subject: What do people consider the most prestigious college in the Midwest?
Notre Dame isn’t known for being intellectual but to the masses it has a lot of cachet. Especially in the Midwest.
Nobody gives a damn about Chicago. Most have never heard of it.
Nobody gives a damn about Chicago. Most have never heard of it.
Anonymous
07/27/2018 01:02
Subject: What do people consider the most prestigious college in the Midwest?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:U. Chicago is a weirdly divisive subject. I don’t get it.
It’s a reflection of the deep ambivalence in the US re whether “elite” colleges are those that educate the richest or the smartest kids. Ironically, this polarization is happening as Chicago becomes richer (and Princeton becomes smarter, and Harvard becomes more economically diverse while Stanford has become both richer and smarter). Basically, at least in terms of admissions, there’s a lot of convergence now among schools that were originally developed on very different models.
Top colleges have cachet because parents want their kids mixing with rich and connected peers. And rich and connected families donate the most. Chicago’s endowment is relatively low and the student body is too poor and middle class to have the elite cachet its top 20 Midwest peers Notre Dame and Northwestern enjoy. Even huge public Michigan has a far wealthier student body.
Your argument is UChicago is recruiting smart poorer kids by choice? Doubtful. It’s because rich smart kids target schools with elite cachet and rich peer student body. Now if you think UChicago’s recruiting philosophy is better, where’s the proof? Show us outcomes that recruiting more poorer smart kids leads to superior graduate outcomes. Spoiler: it doesn’t.
Wow, I hope you’re making lots of money because your college education didn’t include reading comprehension, much less critical thinking!
UChicago has a relatively poor HHI student body. UChicago boosters wish they had a far wealthier student body. UChicago boosters try to claim the student body is poor because of some unique noble mission (barf
) when really it’s because the college is most appealing to poor and middle class grinds, many Indian and Asian — not the smart and rich HHI who flock to more prestigious campuses.
Anonymous
07/27/2018 00:43
Subject: What do people consider the most prestigious college in the Midwest?
Northwestern for smart, well rounded, happy kids.
Anonymous
07/27/2018 00:39
Subject: What do people consider the most prestigious college in the Midwest?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Chicago, Wash U, Northwestern and Notre Dame are all prestigious.
I grew up in the Midwest, and no one would rank ND in the same class as UChicago and Northwestern.
It's interesting, though. Discussions about where to apply here on DCUM always include UChicago and UMich. Northwestern is barely mentioned...and Wash U and ND almost never. Not sure what that means...
But I would pick UChicago and UMich overall. UIUC for engineering only. Purdue for engineering, but lower than the other three.
Grinnell and Carleton for LACs.
It means ND is a Catholic school so only Catholics rank it high. It's like saying BYU is the best in the mid-west/Utah area. Yes, it's a premier destination for those in the faith but not so much for others.
Anonymous
07/27/2018 00:22
Subject: Re:What do people consider the most prestigious college in the Midwest?
Anonymous wrote:Wisconsin-Madison.
Snort
Anonymous
07/27/2018 00:12
Subject: What do people consider the most prestigious college in the Midwest?
Forbes has ND as number 2 in the midwest, behind only Chicago.
https://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list/#tab:rank
https://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list/#tab:rank
Anonymous
07/27/2018 00:06
Subject: What do people consider the most prestigious college in the Midwest?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Top colleges have cachet because parents want their kids mixing with rich and connected peers. And rich and connected families donate the most. Chicago’s endowment is relatively low and the student body is too poor and middle class to have the elite cachet its top 20 Midwest peers Notre Dame and Northwestern enjoy. Even huge public Michigan has a far wealthier student body.
Some of us have different definitions of elite. Those who are dumping on both Chicago and, earlier in the thread, Oberlin (which I attended), come across as anti-intellectual. Both of these schools have a track record of drawing kids who are notably smart and--equally notably--uninterested with money and with following the herd. Both are wildly overrepresented (esp Oberlin, given its size) among Macarthur "genius" grant recipients
https://www.macfound.org/media/files/MacArthur_Fellows_-_Undergraduate_Degrees_1.pdf
Both schools rank high in percent of students who go on to earn doctorates--so do Carleton and Grinnell:
https://www.swarthmore.edu/institutional-research/doctorates-awarded
And both are really not for everyone. Which is fine. But in my field and my world, both schools have a reputation for being pretty special.
Carleton and Grinnell do a lot better than Oberlin.
Anonymous
07/27/2018 00:04
Subject: What do people consider the most prestigious college in the Midwest?
Anonymous wrote:Chicago, Wash U, Northwestern and Notre Dame are all prestigious.
I grew up in the Midwest, and no one would rank ND in the same class as UChicago and Northwestern.
It's interesting, though. Discussions about where to apply here on DCUM always include UChicago and UMich. Northwestern is barely mentioned...and Wash U and ND almost never. Not sure what that means...
But I would pick UChicago and UMich overall. UIUC for engineering only. Purdue for engineering, but lower than the other three.
Grinnell and Carleton for LACs.
Anonymous
07/26/2018 23:54
Subject: What do people consider the most prestigious college in the Midwest?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Notre Dame? Northwestern? Michigan?
This ranking, which seems reasonable to me, would put them in this order: Chicago, Michigan, Illinois and Northwestern. Notre Dame does not rank in the top 50in the world.
This is correct.
Anonymous
07/26/2018 23:45
Subject: What do people consider the most prestigious college in the Midwest?
Anonymous wrote:
Top colleges have cachet because parents want their kids mixing with rich and connected peers. And rich and connected families donate the most. Chicago’s endowment is relatively low and the student body is too poor and middle class to have the elite cachet its top 20 Midwest peers Notre Dame and Northwestern enjoy. Even huge public Michigan has a far wealthier student body.
Some of us have different definitions of elite. Those who are dumping on both Chicago and, earlier in the thread, Oberlin (which I attended), come across as anti-intellectual. Both of these schools have a track record of drawing kids who are notably smart and--equally notably--uninterested with money and with following the herd. Both are wildly overrepresented (esp Oberlin, given its size) among Macarthur "genius" grant recipients
https://www.macfound.org/media/files/MacArthur_Fellows_-_Undergraduate_Degrees_1.pdf
Both schools rank high in percent of students who go on to earn doctorates--so do Carleton and Grinnell:
https://www.swarthmore.edu/institutional-research/doctorates-awarded
And both are really not for everyone. Which is fine. But in my field and my world, both schools have a reputation for being pretty special.
Anonymous
07/26/2018 23:34
Subject: What do people consider the most prestigious college in the Midwest?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Chicago for sure.
Oberlin for small liberal arts undergrad.
Oberlin? Sorry, no. Carleton and Grinnell.
I've never even heard of those latter two colleges.
If that's true, you are not an authority on colleges in the midwest.
+100
Anonymous
07/26/2018 23:22
Subject: What do people consider the most prestigious college in the Midwest?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:U. Chicago is a weirdly divisive subject. I don’t get it.
It’s a reflection of the deep ambivalence in the US re whether “elite” colleges are those that educate the richest or the smartest kids. Ironically, this polarization is happening as Chicago becomes richer (and Princeton becomes smarter, and Harvard becomes more economically diverse while Stanford has become both richer and smarter). Basically, at least in terms of admissions, there’s a lot of convergence now among schools that were originally developed on very different models.
Top colleges have cachet because parents want their kids mixing with rich and connected peers. And rich and connected families donate the most. Chicago’s endowment is relatively low and the student body is too poor and middle class to have the elite cachet its top 20 Midwest peers Notre Dame and Northwestern enjoy. Even huge public Michigan has a far wealthier student body.
Your argument is UChicago is recruiting smart poorer kids by choice? Doubtful. It’s because rich smart kids target schools with elite cachet and rich peer student body. Now if you think UChicago’s recruiting philosophy is better, where’s the proof? Show us outcomes that recruiting more poorer smart kids leads to superior graduate outcomes. Spoiler: it doesn’t.
Wow, I hope you’re making lots of money because your college education didn’t include reading comprehension, much less critical thinking!