jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Republicans do not worship Putin.

But Democrats do worship Castro.

The leading Republican yesterday sided with a Russian dictator over his own country. Name one Democratic leader who has down anything close with regard to Castro?

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Clinton brought the Democrats back from the doldrums after 12 years of Reagan and Bush. I am not interested in ideological purity. When you "proudly" refused to vote for Bill Clinton you were a mini-version of Cortez with her harebrained ideas.

You say that you have never voted for a Clinton and yet you were ranting on this very forum about why Democrats should vote for Hillary as the lesser of the two evils. You even said that Sanders was your choice but given that Hillary was the nominee liberals should vote for her despite her flaws.

Will the real Jeff Steele, please stand up?

I live in DC. A vote by me for Clinton would have been meaningless. In other states, including yours, a vote for Clinton could have made a difference. Of course I would prefer a flawed Hillary Clinton over the current catastrophe in the White House. Cue your defense of Trump and attack on Democrats.

Ahh! Now we have it. You are very principled about not voting for Hillary Clinton as long as your vote does not matter. If your vote mattered in a swing state, your principles would have gone to hell in a hand-basket.

Yep, unlike you, I'd have compromised my principles to save us from Trump. I couldn't look in the mirror knowing that I was responsible for this catastrophe in the White House. I don't know how you do it.

jsteele wrote:
I love how all the Republicans here are so full of advice for the Democratic Party. One would think that you folks have plenty of work to do in your own party. I understand that you are looking for a refuge from your party, and Democrats certainly welcome refugees, but maybe wait a day or two before you start telling us what to do. The Democrats have waged campaign after campaign based on the premise that if they would just move a little more to the right, moderate Republicans would finally support them. Sadly for all of us, those Democrats don't have a lot to show for their efforts. There is absolutely no reason that a deep blue district like the Bronx should have a moderate representing it. That is the perfect place for AOC.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Clinton brought the Democrats back from the doldrums after 12 years of Reagan and Bush. I am not interested in ideological purity. When you "proudly" refused to vote for Bill Clinton you were a mini-version of Cortez with her harebrained ideas.

You say that you have never voted for a Clinton and yet you were ranting on this very forum about why Democrats should vote for Hillary as the lesser of the two evils. You even said that Sanders was your choice but given that Hillary was the nominee liberals should vote for her despite her flaws.

Will the real Jeff Steele, please stand up?

I live in DC. A vote by me for Clinton would have been meaningless. In other states, including yours, a vote for Clinton could have made a difference. Of course I would prefer a flawed Hillary Clinton over the current catastrophe in the White House. Cue your defense of Trump and attack on Democrats.

Ahh! Now we have it. You are very principled about not voting for Hillary Clinton as long as your vote does not matter. If your vote mattered in a swing state, your principles would have gone to hell in a hand-basket.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Clinton brought the Democrats back from the doldrums after 12 years of Reagan and Bush. I am not interested in ideological purity. When you "proudly" refused to vote for Bill Clinton you were a mini-version of Cortez with her harebrained ideas.

You say that you have never voted for a Clinton and yet you were ranting on this very forum about why Democrats should vote for Hillary as the lesser of the two evils. You even said that Sanders was your choice but given that Hillary was the nominee liberals should vote for her despite her flaws.

Will the real Jeff Steele, please stand up?

I live in DC. A vote by me for Clinton would have been meaningless. In other states, including yours, a vote for Clinton could have made a difference. Of course I would prefer a flawed Hillary Clinton over the current catastrophe in the White House. Cue your defense of Trump and attack on Democrats.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What you say is the "misrepresentation" of my viewpoint is because I mock liberals for their constant harangues against Trump no matter what he does.

The multiple impeachment threads - almost weekly - were a joke but you as the administrator did nothing about it. It just fed the mindless hysteria about Trump and getting rid of him. So, yes, I mock them for their predictions that Trump would be out of office in spring of last year and then summer, fall and the end of the year.

Re Gary Johnson vs Sanders - I knew in either event it was a protest vote - and Johnson was fricking nuts. I'd have voted for Weld if his name headed the ticket.

Cortez won because of where she ran. You correctly pointed out that her message would not sell in other parts of the country - or did you forget you made that point? Tammy Baldwin made the same point. Perez representing her as being the future of the Democratic party was utterly idiotic. She is not. Forget about ideological purity - understand why those states and counties that we lost in 2016 turned against us - I don't care whether it was by 70,000 votes or 1,000 votes.

Do we want to win elections without compromising our core values? What is wrong with being a Bill Clinton type of Democrat? Was Clinton not enough of a liberal for you?

DP. You make a lot of sense. As a moderate Republican, I would vote for a Bill Clinton type (2nd term, when he pivoted to the center) - and most definitely it it were against Trump. But no way would I vote for a Cortez type, and if the Democrats insist on moving hard-left, they will lose all moderates. The problem from where I sit is that the extreme progressive types (like Perez and Ellison) are so convinced of their own moral superiority that they are tone-deaf to the fact that most people are moderates and reject their positions.

I would include our esteemed moderator, Jeff Steele, as one of those "morally superior" individuals. He proudly says that he never voted for a Clinton in his life. Flawed as I am, I voted for BC both times and have never regretted it. He was one of the better presidents we have had in the last 50 years.

Yes, I agree with you on all points - including our moderator's claim that he detests "compromise," as exhibited by Bill Clinton, 2nd term. The ability to compromise is one of the best traits in a president (or a husband!), and that is why I go along with your statement that Clinton was one of our best presidents of my lifetime (his horrible personal failings aside).

The non-compromising position of hard-left liberals might make them feel proud for sticking with their "moral superiority" - but they're wrong. If they insist that their socialist-like positions are the only correct ones, and nominate someone who reflects that. they will lose again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What you say is the "misrepresentation" of my viewpoint is because I mock liberals for their constant harangues against Trump no matter what he does.

The multiple impeachment threads - almost weekly - were a joke but you as the administrator did nothing about it. It just fed the mindless hysteria about Trump and getting rid of him. So, yes, I mock them for their predictions that Trump would be out of office in spring of last year and then summer, fall and the end of the year.

Re Gary Johnson vs Sanders - I knew in either event it was a protest vote - and Johnson was fricking nuts. I'd have voted for Weld if his name headed the ticket.

Cortez won because of where she ran. You correctly pointed out that her message would not sell in other parts of the country - or did you forget you made that point? Tammy Baldwin made the same point. Perez representing her as being the future of the Democratic party was utterly idiotic. She is not. Forget about ideological purity - understand why those states and counties that we lost in 2016 turned against us - I don't care whether it was by 70,000 votes or 1,000 votes.

Do we want to win elections without compromising our core values? What is wrong with being a Bill Clinton type of Democrat? Was Clinton not enough of a liberal for you?

DP. You make a lot of sense. As a moderate Republican, I would vote for a Bill Clinton type (2nd term, when he pivoted to the center) - and most definitely it it were against Trump. But no way would I vote for a Cortez type, and if the Democrats insist on moving hard-left, they will lose all moderates. The problem from where I sit is that the extreme progressive types (like Perez and Ellison) are so convinced of their own moral superiority that they are tone-deaf to the fact that most people are moderates and reject their positions.

I would include our esteemed moderator, Jeff Steele, as one of those "morally superior" individuals. He proudly says that he never voted for a Clinton in his life. Flawed as I am, I voted for BC both times and have never regretted it. He was one of the better presidents we have had in the last 50 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Yes, you are constantly here supporting or defending Trump. I have never seen you take a single liberal position. You used to start every post by saying, "I didn't vote for Trump but...". Now you don't bother with the prelude. You are really a one-trick pony.

No, I have a problem with the hysteria that abounds about Trump and his antics. Like it or not he is president and it is foolhardy to ignore the factors that brought him into office. Now that is a point I have made repeatedly.

And, no it is not racist, ignorant, uneducated local yokels who voted for him. I know this because I actually interact and socialize with some who voted for him. I am sure there are racists who voted for him but it is asinine to assume that because someone voted for Trump he/she must be a racist.

Yes, I did not vote for Trump nor did I vote for Hillary - they were both thoroughly odious. I actually wrote in Sanders name when I voted. I also supported Sanders during the primaries less because I thought he was the right person and more because I was hoping he'd succeed in blocking Hillary.

And as far as taking liberal positions on this forum, you have no idea what you are talking about because there are multiple posts when I have done so.

There are only two ways of removing Trump from office: defeat him in an election or impeach him and remove him from office. The latter will not happen given that one needs 67 votes in the Senate to accomplish this. So we are left with defeating him in an election and Cortez's harebrained ideas are not the answer.

I am sure that this will be hard for you to come to grips with but your views are not necessarily the panacea for liberals. You have a viewpoint which may or may not be right - just as I do.

I have no problem with your viewpoint, just your constant misrepresentation of it. You claim to have gone to the trouble to write in Sanders -- what no Gary Johnson on your ballot? -- but are here trashing Ocasio Cortez. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. The center needs a left wing or it will simply be pulled to the right. You are delusional if you think Democrats acting like Republicans is the road to victory. Given the choice between a real Republican and a fake one, voters have repeatedly chosen the real one. It is time for Democrats to act like Democrats and having a strong left wing motivates them to do that. I've always found it strange how so-called "moderate Democrats" are much more comfortable with and tolerant of the right then they are anyone to their left. It is a very strange phenomenon.

What you say is the "misrepresentation" of my viewpoint is because I mock liberals for their constant harangues against Trump no matter what he does.

The multiple impeachment threads - almost weekly - were a joke but you as the administrator did nothing about it. It just fed the mindless hysteria about Trump and getting rid of him. So, yes, I mock them for their predictions that Trump would be out of office in spring of last year and then summer, fall and the end of the year.

Re Gary Johnson vs Sanders - I knew in either event it was a protest vote - and Johnson was fricking nuts. I'd have voted for Weld if his name headed the ticket.

Cortez won because of where she ran. You correctly pointed out that her message would not sell in other parts of the country - or did you forget you made that point? Tammy Baldwin made the same point. Perez representing her as being the future of the Democratic party was utterly idiotic. She is not. Forget about ideological purity - understand why those states and counties that we lost in 2016 turned against us - I don't care whether it was by 70,000 votes or 1,000 votes.

Do we want to win elections without compromising our core values? What is wrong with being a Bill Clinton type of Democrat? Was Clinton not enough of a liberal for you?

DP. You make a lot of sense. As a moderate Republican, I would vote for a Bill Clinton type (2nd term, when he pivoted to the center) - and most definitely it it were against Trump. But no way would I vote for a Cortez type, and if the Democrats insist on moving hard-left, they will lose all moderates. The problem from where I sit is that the extreme progressive types (like Perez and Ellison) are so convinced of their own moral superiority that they are tone-deaf to the fact that most people are moderates and reject their positions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What you say is the "misrepresentation" of my viewpoint is because I mock liberals for their constant harangues against Trump no matter what he does.

The multiple impeachment threads - almost weekly - were a joke but you as the administrator did nothing about it. It just fed the mindless hysteria about Trump and getting rid of him. So, yes, I mock them for their predictions that Trump would be out of office in spring of last year and then summer, fall and the end of the year.

Re Gary Johnson vs Sanders - I knew in either event it was a protest vote - and Johnson was fricking nuts. I'd have voted for Weld if his name headed the ticket.

Cortez won because of where she ran. You correctly pointed out that her message would not sell in other parts of the country - or did you forget you made that point? Tammy Baldwin made the same point. Perez representing her as being the future of the Democratic party was utterly idiotic. She is not. Forget about ideological purity - understand why those states and counties that we lost in 2016 turned against us - I don't care whether it was by 70,000 votes or 1,000 votes.

Do we want to win elections without compromising our core values? What is wrong with being a Bill Clinton type of Democrat? Was Clinton not enough of a liberal for you?

DP. You make a lot of sense. As a moderate Republican, I would vote for a Bill Clinton type (2nd term, when he pivoted to the center) - and most definitely it it were against Trump. But no way would I vote for a Cortez type, and if the Democrats insist on moving hard-left, they will lose all moderates. The problem from where I sit is that the extreme progressive types (like Perez and Ellison) are so convinced of their own moral superiority that they are tone-deaf to the fact that most people are moderates and reject their positions.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Do we want to win elections without compromising our core values? What is wrong with being a Bill Clinton type of Democrat? Was Clinton not enough of a liberal for you?

Bill Clinton was exactly the compromise of our core values that I detest. I proudly have never voted for any Clinton.

You clearly share Republican values and spend your time attacking Democrats. It is okay to admit your true allegiance. There are plenty of Republicans here.

Clinton brought the Democrats back from the doldrums after 12 years of Reagan and Bush. I am not interested in ideological purity. When you "proudly" refused to vote for Bill Clinton you were a mini-version of Cortez with her harebrained ideas.

You say that you have never voted for a Clinton and yet you were ranting on this very forum about why Democrats should vote for Hillary as the lesser of the two evils. You even said that Sanders was your choice but given that Hillary was the nominee liberals should vote for her despite her flaws.

Will the real Jeff Steele, please stand up?

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Do we want to win elections without compromising our core values? What is wrong with being a Bill Clinton type of Democrat? Was Clinton not enough of a liberal for you?

Bill Clinton was exactly the compromise of our core values that I detest. I proudly have never voted for any Clinton.

You clearly share Republican values and spend your time attacking Democrats. It is okay to admit your true allegiance. There are plenty of Republicans here.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Yes, you are constantly here supporting or defending Trump. I have never seen you take a single liberal position. You used to start every post by saying, "I didn't vote for Trump but...". Now you don't bother with the prelude. You are really a one-trick pony.

No, I have a problem with the hysteria that abounds about Trump and his antics. Like it or not he is president and it is foolhardy to ignore the factors that brought him into office. Now that is a point I have made repeatedly.

And, no it is not racist, ignorant, uneducated local yokels who voted for him. I know this because I actually interact and socialize with some who voted for him. I am sure there are racists who voted for him but it is asinine to assume that because someone voted for Trump he/she must be a racist.

Yes, I did not vote for Trump nor did I vote for Hillary - they were both thoroughly odious. I actually wrote in Sanders name when I voted. I also supported Sanders during the primaries less because I thought he was the right person and more because I was hoping he'd succeed in blocking Hillary.

And as far as taking liberal positions on this forum, you have no idea what you are talking about because there are multiple posts when I have done so.

There are only two ways of removing Trump from office: defeat him in an election or impeach him and remove him from office. The latter will not happen given that one needs 67 votes in the Senate to accomplish this. So we are left with defeating him in an election and Cortez's harebrained ideas are not the answer.

I am sure that this will be hard for you to come to grips with but your views are not necessarily the panacea for liberals. You have a viewpoint which may or may not be right - just as I do.

I have no problem with your viewpoint, just your constant misrepresentation of it. You claim to have gone to the trouble to write in Sanders -- what no Gary Johnson on your ballot? -- but are here trashing Ocasio Cortez. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. The center needs a left wing or it will simply be pulled to the right. You are delusional if you think Democrats acting like Republicans is the road to victory. Given the choice between a real Republican and a fake one, voters have repeatedly chosen the real one. It is time for Democrats to act like Democrats and having a strong left wing motivates them to do that. I've always found it strange how so-called "moderate Democrats" are much more comfortable with and tolerant of the right then they are anyone to their left. It is a very strange phenomenon.

What you say is the "misrepresentation" of my viewpoint is because I mock liberals for their constant harangues against Trump no matter what he does.

The multiple impeachment threads - almost weekly - were a joke but you as the administrator did nothing about it. It just fed the mindless hysteria about Trump and getting rid of him. So, yes, I mock them for their predictions that Trump would be out of office in spring of last year and then summer, fall and the end of the year.

Re Gary Johnson vs Sanders - I knew in either event it was a protest vote - and Johnson was fricking nuts. I'd have voted for Weld if his name headed the ticket.

Cortez won because of where she ran. You correctly pointed out that her message would not sell in other parts of the country - or did you forget you made that point? Tammy Baldwin made the same point. Perez representing her as being the future of the Democratic party was utterly idiotic. She is not. Forget about ideological purity - understand why those states and counties that we lost in 2016 turned against us - I don't care whether it was by 70,000 votes or 1,000 votes.

Do we want to win elections without compromising our core values? What is wrong with being a Bill Clinton type of Democrat? Was Clinton not enough of a liberal for you?

Anonymous wrote:
Do we want to win elections without compromising our core values? What is wrong with being a Bill Clinton type of Democrat? Was Clinton not enough of a liberal for you?

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Yes, you are constantly here supporting or defending Trump. I have never seen you take a single liberal position. You used to start every post by saying, "I didn't vote for Trump but...". Now you don't bother with the prelude. You are really a one-trick pony.

No, I have a problem with the hysteria that abounds about Trump and his antics. Like it or not he is president and it is foolhardy to ignore the factors that brought him into office. Now that is a point I have made repeatedly.

And, no it is not racist, ignorant, uneducated local yokels who voted for him. I know this because I actually interact and socialize with some who voted for him. I am sure there are racists who voted for him but it is asinine to assume that because someone voted for Trump he/she must be a racist.

Yes, I did not vote for Trump nor did I vote for Hillary - they were both thoroughly odious. I actually wrote in Sanders name when I voted. I also supported Sanders during the primaries less because I thought he was the right person and more because I was hoping he'd succeed in blocking Hillary.

And as far as taking liberal positions on this forum, you have no idea what you are talking about because there are multiple posts when I have done so.

There are only two ways of removing Trump from office: defeat him in an election or impeach him and remove him from office. The latter will not happen given that one needs 67 votes in the Senate to accomplish this. So we are left with defeating him in an election and Cortez's harebrained ideas are not the answer.

I am sure that this will be hard for you to come to grips with but your views are not necessarily the panacea for liberals. You have a viewpoint which may or may not be right - just as I do.

I have no problem with your viewpoint, just your constant misrepresentation of it. You claim to have gone to the trouble to write in Sanders -- what no Gary Johnson on your ballot? -- but are here trashing Ocasio Cortez. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. The center needs a left wing or it will simply be pulled to the right. You are delusional if you think Democrats acting like Republicans is the road to victory. Given the choice between a real Republican and a fake one, voters have repeatedly chosen the real one. It is time for Democrats to act like Democrats and having a strong left wing motivates them to do that. I've always found it strange how so-called "moderate Democrats" are much more comfortable with and tolerant of the right then they are anyone to their left. It is a very strange phenomenon.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this keeps up, I can see Cortez being used by Republicans as the face of the new Democratic party and it will not help with middle America:

https://www.newsweek.com/ocasio-cortez-calls-occupation-airports-ice-offices-we-have-mobilize-1028387

You are a Trumpster. Quit the concern trolling. Republican Congressmen and a Senator spent July 4 in Russia. How do you think that plays in middle America? Worry about your own party.

I am a Trumpster? Hilarious!!

I have been a liberal since before you were born. Being a liberal does not mean one has to toe the party line hard as it may be to believe.

Yes, you are constantly here supporting or defending Trump. I have never seen you take a single liberal position. You used to start every post by saying, "I didn't vote for Trump but...". Now you don't bother with the prelude. You are really a one-trick pony.

No, I have a problem with the hysteria that abounds about Trump and his antics. Like it or not he is president and it is foolhardy to ignore the factors that brought him into office. Now that is a point I have made repeatedly.

And, no it is not racist, ignorant, uneducated local yokels who voted for him. I know this because I actually interact and socialize with some who voted for him. I am sure there are racists who voted for him but it is asinine to assume that because someone voted for Trump he/she must be a racist.

Yes, I did not vote for Trump nor did I vote for Hillary - they were both thoroughly odious. I actually wrote in Sanders name when I voted. I also supported Sanders during the primaries less because I thought he was the right person and more because I was hoping he'd succeed in blocking Hillary.

And as far as taking liberal positions on this forum, you have no idea what you are talking about because there are multiple posts when I have done so.

There are only two ways of removing Trump from office: defeat him in an election or impeach him and remove him from office. The latter will not happen given that one needs 67 votes in the Senate to accomplish this. So we are left with defeating him in an election and Cortez's harebrained ideas are not the answer.

I am sure that this will be hard for you to come to grips with but your views are not necessarily the panacea for liberals. You have a viewpoint which may or may not be right - just as I do.