Anonymous wrote:Let's face it: what the Democrats are really bothered by is that this tax bill really does result in tax savings for most Americans who currently pay taxes. Yes, the high income earners come out of it better but most families will see some benefit.

Now whether the growth in the economy will really take place to overcome all or part of the increased deficit remains to be seen but that will be known over the next couple of years. However, in the short term, the tax savings are real and American taxpayers will see that despite the blather about it not giving anything back to the average tax payer is just fake crap from the Democrats and the liberal media. If Trump's plan comes to fruition, wage earners will see an increase in their paychecks come February. Some of the tax payers in blue states with high taxes may be hurt eg NY, CA, CT and NU but Trump and the Republicans don't really care about those states since they are not winnable for Republicans.

A rising stock market, a flourishing economy and more net take home pay for Americans is a winning formula after the years of anemic growth under Obama. I would wager that if the GDP does show increased growth the Democratic spin will be that this would have happened even without the tax cuts and the elimination of regulations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let's face it: what the Democrats are really bothered by is that this tax bill really does result in tax savings for most Americans who currently pay taxes. Yes, the high income earners come out of it better but most families will see some benefit.

Now whether the growth in the economy will really take place to overcome all or part of the increased deficit remains to be seen but that will be known over the next couple of years. However, in the short term, the tax savings are real and American taxpayers will see that despite the blather about it not giving anything back to the average tax payer is just fake crap from the Democrats and the liberal media. If Trump's plan comes to fruition, wage earners will see an increase in their paychecks come February. Some of the tax payers in blue states with high taxes may be hurt eg NY, CA, CT and NU but Trump and the Republicans don't really care about those states since they are not winnable for Republicans.

A rising stock market, a flourishing economy and more net take home pay for Americans is a winning formula after the years of anemic growth under Obama. I would wager that if the GDP does show increased growth the Democratic spin will be that this would have happened even without the tax cuts and the elimination of regulations.

All very well put. Just restating some of your stated/implied points (since I agree):

1) Naturally the rich will see more tax savings because they pay the lion's share to begin with. Why can't D's understand this concept?
2) The majority of middle income taxpayers will see some savings (although not a whole lot because they don't pay a whole lot)
3) The low income will not see their income taxes cut because....drum roll.... they pay no income taxes.
4) The affluent voters in the blue states with high property taxes - CA, NY, NJ - would never vote for an R anyway, so contrary to the liberals' assertion that the "dumb flyover Trump voters" are getting their rears handed to them (a comment often said with glee), it's actually the UMC liberals who are being hit
5) The major impact from this bill comes from the corporate side, which will see a tax rate cut by 40%. That will translate to more money for the half of Americans who shareholders, who now hold more valuable companies. (We've already seen that in anticipation of the bill in our YTD returns.)
6) A competitive business climate will attract businesses here, retain those that would otherwise leave for more hospitable waters,. and result in job creation.

Finally, your last comment. D's will definitely try to give credit to Obama for the positive results of this bill. The truth is that we came out of the worst economic recession with a tepid growth of 2%, a pretty sorry showing attributed to Obama's anti-business climate. In less than a year, we are at 3% - a 50% improvement - thanks to Trump's policies.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This opinion piece in a Cleveland paper argues that raising federal income taxes on residents who live in high tax areas (through a repeal of the SALT deduction) will prove a disaster for what he describes as legacy cities such as Cleveland, Cincinnati, Toledo and Youngstown.

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/12/gop_tax_bills_state_and_local.html

Yep. How to turn Ohio blue in a heartbeat? Get the suburban Cleveland and Cincy voters aligned with East Cleveland and other predominately African-American voters.

Also partnership entities, such as law firms, also are greatly affected by the elimination of the SALT deduction. For example, a partner in a partnership must pay state and local income taxes in every jurisdiction that has an office. So for a law firm, a partner of that law firm must pay state and local income tax in every state and city of the US where that firm has an office (DC, NYC. Boston, Chicago, Atlanta, LA, San Fran, Charlotte, Miami, Philadelphia, Denver, Austin, etc), every single one, even if that partner doesn’t practice out of that office or even visits that office. This can result in an enormous amount of money.

Now that amount is limited to $10,000? A law firm is just an example, but the scenario applies to any partners in any partnership. These are also business owners. I am surprised this isn’t getting more attention. If you are a partner in any kind of partnership I woul wake up to the potential for this to cost tens of thousands or more, every single year, per partner.

Anonymous wrote:Let's face it: what the Democrats are really bothered by is that this tax bill really does result in tax savings for most Americans who currently pay taxes. Yes, the high income earners come out of it better but most families will see some benefit.

Now whether the growth in the economy will really take place to overcome all or part of the increased deficit remains to be seen but that will be known over the next couple of years. However, in the short term, the tax savings are real and American taxpayers will see that despite the blather about it not giving anything back to the average tax payer is just fake crap from the Democrats and the liberal media. If Trump's plan comes to fruition, wage earners will see an increase in their paychecks come February. Some of the tax payers in blue states with high taxes may be hurt eg NY, CA, CT and NU but Trump and the Republicans don't really care about those states since they are not winnable for Republicans.

A rising stock market, a flourishing economy and more net take home pay for Americans is a winning formula after the years of anemic growth under Obama. I would wager that if the GDP does show increased growth the Democratic spin will be that this would have happened even without the tax cuts and the elimination of regulations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GOP leaders just slipped a provision into the final tax bill creating a special tax cut for income made off real estate LLCs. The provision wasn’t in the House or Senate bills — they just added it to the final bill.

I wonder who benefits from that.

Bob Corker. Not kidding.

And Democrats were so so enamored with Corker because he was attacking Trump? What say you now liberals?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rubio reportedly on board ......... all systems are go for a great tax reform package and the elimination of the individual mandate!

Lesson for the day: if you are a R, hold out for entitlement, and they can buy your vote.

You mean they learned from the Democrats, whose campaign strategy for the past 50 years has been "vote for us, and we'll give you lots of free stuff"? Remember how that woman stood up in a Town Hall and said she understood that Obama would pay off her mortgage?

I once asked a friend from a poor family whom her parents voted for while she was growing up.. She said they voted for whoever would give her family the most money, and that was always the Democrats.

I’m confused. So you do not like the Democrats, yet you’re glad the Republicans are doing the very thing you accuse Dems of? I think in the end the Rs will win the battle of “who can drive up the deficit the most.” How ya gonna pin THAT on Obama?

Oh wait! That’s right, trickle down economics will solve everything. Gullible fools.

It's not the same thing. Republicans simply purchase votes by handing out free stuff to rich people. A bribe, basically. Corporate tax reform put forth by the Rs, on the other hand, will boost the economy and benefit everyone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I’m confused. So you do not like the Democrats, yet you’re glad the Republicans are doing the very thing you accuse Dems of? I think in the end the Rs will win the battle of “who can drive up the deficit the most.” How ya gonna pin THAT on Obama?

Oh wait! That’s right, trickle down economics will solve everything. Gullible fools.

No need to pin it on Obama: he already won that prize. He doubled the national debt from $10 trillion to $20 trillion in a span of eight years!

Because he had to fix the mess that W left. How hard is that to understand? And you know what? We have had 8 years of growth, which is better than recession or depression. And now the GOP is taking that economic progress and flushing it down to Blue Plains.

We had some of the weakest growth in the GDP in the Obama years and that is all the more amazing given that his starting point was an economy that was in the tank.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GOP leaders just slipped a provision into the final tax bill creating a special tax cut for income made off real estate LLCs. The provision wasn’t in the House or Senate bills — they just added it to the final bill.

I wonder who benefits from that.

Bob Corker. Not kidding.

And Democrats were so so enamored with Corker because he was attacking Trump? What say you now liberals?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GOP leaders just slipped a provision into the final tax bill creating a special tax cut for income made off real estate LLCs. The provision wasn’t in the House or Senate bills — they just added it to the final bill.

I wonder who benefits from that.

Bob Corker. Not kidding.

Anonymous wrote:Am I correct in reading the new tax tables as reducing the marriage penalty?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This opinion piece in a Cleveland paper argues that raising federal income taxes on residents who live in high tax areas (through a repeal of the SALT deduction) will prove a disaster for what he describes as legacy cities such as Cleveland, Cincinnati, Toledo and Youngstown.

http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/index.ssf/2017/12/gop_tax_bills_state_and_local.html

Yep. How to turn Ohio blue in a heartbeat? Get the suburban Cleveland and Cincy voters aligned with East Cleveland and other predominately African-American voters.