^^^ Cub scouts meet once a month all together. At this big meeting, everyone is in one room, dens sit together with either a leader or usually volunteer boy scouts sitting with them,. Awards and advancements are given and pack business is covered, so parents and families donattend but they sit in the back.

Each den (grade level bobcat, tiger, bear, wolf, weblos 1 and web 2) meet separately, at different locations chosen by the leaders, once per week on the other weeks, usually in the evening because most of the leaders are dads who were former scouts and most dads work instead of staying home. I think Mormon scouts meet on Sundays all together at church in different rooms, but they are the only scouts I know of who do this and their packs and troops are only open to parish members (ward?)

So there will be one time per month when all the different levels of scouts get together for a meeting, but the den meetings are separate and often at separate locations.

Parents tend to stay for bobcat and tiger because the boys in those lower grades are so wild, but that tends to taper off by 2nd grade and by 3rd-4th grade it is just the leaders unless there is a kid with behavior problems or special needs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That still wouldn't solve the childcare problem. If I am supposed to stay with my son's wolf den to help monitor and participate in meeting, I can exactly be with my younger child at their lion meeting, even if they are meeting at the same time in the same building.

As long as you are there in the building, it's OK to not actually be present in the den of the older children, especially grades 2 through 5. At least it was that way with the pack my son was in. As long as a few parents stayed to help out. The family aspect was mostly present on camping trips.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/FAQS/program.aspx

How often do Cub Scouts meet?
Cub Scouts meet in their dens frequently – sometimes weekly, bi-weekly or another schedule that best fits the group – and a pack meeting is held for all Cub Scouts and their families once a month. Beyond that, it depends on the den and pack: a den may hold a special activity, such as a service project or visit to a local museum in place of one of the weekly meetings or in addition to the weekly meetings. Likewise, a pack may conduct a special event such as a campout as an additional event, or as a substitute for its monthly pack meeting.

May parents attend den meetings?
Cub Scouting is open to parents at all times. Den meetings are intended to be an activity for the individual boys, and your den leader will be working hard to keep the Cub Scouts focused. If you would like to be present at a den meeting, ask the den leader in advance so that the leader can plan a way for you to observe or participate.

Seems like there's leeway in Cub Scouts -- families are expected? invited? to attend pack meetings, while den meetings are more for just the den leaders and the cubs, but parents are welcome (but not expected) to attend.

The convenience factor in having den meetings at the same time would mostly be that of dropping all kids off at the same time and place -- allowing a parent of 3 kids to be the den leader or assistant den leader of ONE den, while all 3 kids are in the pack.

A parent in such a situation would not be able to be den leader of 2 dens that met at the same time, of course.

Anonymous wrote:That still wouldn't solve the childcare problem. If I am supposed to stay with my son's wolf den to help monitor and participate in meeting, I can exactly be with my younger child at their lion meeting, even if they are meeting at the same time in the same building.

As long as you are there in the building, it's OK to not actually be present in the den of the older children, especially grades 2 through 5. At least it was that way with the pack my son was in. As long as a few parents stayed to help out. The family aspect was mostly present on camping trips.

One more thought about something I think is a fundamental historical difference between Girl Scouts and cub/boy scouts. I think BSA has always subscribed to a more rigid definition of what a man should be--this comes through in the fact that most of the program is mandatory and the program presents certain core skills and beliefs. This also resulted in the historical opposition to gay scouts.

GSA, in contrast, has always been about challenging boundaries and reinventing what it means to be a girl. The program has nothing mandatory about it, and its contours are defined by what the girls, parents and leaders want to achieve. It's also historically been pretty welcoming of gay scouts, and generally socially progressive. (My grandmother was horrified when sex Ed was part of the GS program, in the 1930s--not so much that she opposed it but because she didn't want to do it as a leader!).

I think GSA has struggled, in the past decades, with figuring out where to add value in a world where there now are so many options available to so many girls, whereas BSA seems to have a clearer vision of what it's mission is (to provide boys with a certain set of old world skills and values).

That still wouldn't solve the childcare problem. If I am supposed to stay with my son's wolf den to help monitor and participate in meeting, I can exactly be with my younger child at their lion meeting, even if they are meeting at the same time in the same building.
I feel like many of the people posting on this thread do not have children in either Girl Scouts or cub scouts.

The only real problem I've heard articulated in this thread is that some girls want to do more activities that are perceived as more traditionally male. Girl Scouts already provides for all that, if that's what the girls and Troop want, so there's an easy solution--just very volunteer to make that happen in your Girl Scout troop, or form your own Girl Scout troop.

Some other people posting just object, I think, to any single sex activity on principle. That's fine and I get that, but there are also co-ed scouting programs.

Anonymous wrote:
It does not matter if younger siblings are there anyway hanging out. They cannot join their sibling's scout den, period.

Cub Scouts is grade specific. Each level, bobcat, tiger, wolf, bear and Weblos, is linked to one specific grade and have specific advancements for each grade.

So even is five year old Larla is there every week hanging out at her second grad brother's den meeting, she cannot become a wolf no matter how convenient it is for mom. And even if she follows along with everything her brother's wolf den does, she cannot be a bobcat because the 2nd graders are not working on five year old bobcat skills. They are working on wolf skills only. The bobcats are at a different place and time working on bobcat skills.

So the argument that Larla should be allowed to become a scout because she is there every week anyway, following along with her brother's wolf den is an invalid argument and not a legitimate reason for cub scouts to become coed and let Larla join.

Unless they are twins in the same grade, Larla cannot just become a wolf Cub Scout with her brother because it is convenient.

She can't even if she were a brother or decided to identify as a boy.

5 year old siblings can't join, no. (Unless the pack is trying out the new Lion's den program for kindergarteners)

But apparently it is becoming more and more common for the whole pack to meet in one location, and then for dens to break off all at the same time to do their den work. So in a pack like this, with the correct aged female siblings hanging out for the hour while all the brothers are in their dens, would be able to work in dens at this time as well.

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Anonymous wrote:I have two cub scouts. I like that its boys only. The boys are more comfortable this way. There are girls that attend as siblings and they rarely participate. They go off into their own corner and do their own thing. I'm certain that if I asked my 10 yr old he would say no to adding girls.

Why are the girls there? Would they partipate if someone created a den for them? Seems pointless to just hang out.

My daughter goes because she has to. I can't leave her at home. For cub scouts, I have to stay. I'm hoping that by boy scouts it is drop off.

So if you have to stay, and you have to bring your girls, and other parents do too.... how can your boys say they like that cub scouts is boys only? Obviously there are girls there, just not really doing anything.

Why would it be any skin of their noses if the girls were off in their own girl-only cub scout den at the same time that the boys were in their boy only cub scout den?

Wouldn't that make it easier for you as a parent?

DP but that's not how it works. The dens all meet at different times and places so even if there was a girls' den, it wouldn't help with the childcare problem. this is another difference with GS, actually--with GS, the expectation is that you will drop off because they are trying to foster girls' independence. With cub scouts, parents are expected to stay so you end up with a bunch of younger sibs (girls and boys) playing on iPhones or tablets.

Your den is doing it wrong if parents are all staying beyind 1st-2nd grade.

Girl Scouts is drop off from the beginning - even the Daisies. And it's the 1st and 2nd grade boys who are far more likely to have siblings who can't be left alone at home for the meetings.

The holded is one of the silliest statements posted on this entire thread. 1st and 2nd grade girls are just as likely to have young aged siblings as 1st & 2nd grade boys.

Logic and deduction aren't your strong suits, are they? It's not that the BOYS are more likely than girls to have younger siblings, but that 1st and 2nd graders (the ones who, apparently, aren't allowed to be dropped off) that are more likely to have younger siblings than the older boys. It was in response to a poster saying that anyone staying beyond 1st or 2nd grade was doing it wrong. My point is that if the problem is younger siblings trailing along because they're too young to be left at home, that's more likely to be a problem with the 1st and 2nd graders than with the older boys. Make sense?

It does not matter if younger siblings are there anyway hanging out. They cannot join their sibking's scout den, period.

Cub Scouts is grade specific. Each level, bobcat, tiger, wolf, bear and weblos, is linked to one specific grade and have specific advancements for each grade.

So even is five year old Larla is there every week hanging out at her second grad brother's den meeting, she cannot become a wolf no matter how convenient it is for mom. And even if she follows along with everythig her brother's wolf den does, she cannot be a bobcat because the 2nd graders are not working on five year old bobcat skills. They are working on wolf skills only. The bobcats are at a different place and time working on bobcat skills.

So the argument that Larla should be allowed to become a scout because she is there every week anyway, following along with her brother's wolf den is an invalid argument and not a legitimate reason for cub scouts to become coed and let Larla join.

Unless they are twins in the same grade, Larla cannot just become a wolf Cub Scout with her brother because it is convenient.

She can't even if she were a brother or decided to identify as a boy.

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Anonymous wrote:I have two cub scouts. I like that its boys only. The boys are more comfortable this way. There are girls that attend as siblings and they rarely participate. They go off into their own corner and do their own thing. I'm certain that if I asked my 10 yr old he would say no to adding girls.

Why are the girls there? Would they partipate if someone created a den for them? Seems pointless to just hang out.

My daughter goes because she has to. I can't leave her at home. For cub scouts, I have to stay. I'm hoping that by boy scouts it is drop off.

So if you have to stay, and you have to bring your girls, and other parents do too.... how can your boys say they like that cub scouts is boys only? Obviously there are girls there, just not really doing anything.

Why would it be any skin of their noses if the girls were off in their own girl-only cub scout den at the same time that the boys were in their boy only cub scout den?

Wouldn't that make it easier for you as a parent?

DP but that's not how it works. The dens all meet at different times and places so even if there was a girls' den, it wouldn't help with the childcare problem. this is another difference with GS, actually--with GS, the expectation is that you will drop off because they are trying to foster girls' independence. With cub scouts, parents are expected to stay so you end up with a bunch of younger sibs (girls and boys) playing on iPhones or tablets.

Your den is doing it wrong if parents are all staying beyind 1st-2nd grade.

Girl Scouts is drop off from the beginning - even the Daisies. And it's the 1st and 2nd grade boys who are far more likely to have siblings who can't be left alone at home for the meetings.

The holded is one of the silliest statements posted on this entire thread. 1st and 2nd grade girls are just as likely to have young aged siblings as 1st & 2nd grade boys.

Logic and deduction aren't your strong suits, are they? It's not that the BOYS are more likely than girls to have younger siblings, but that 1st and 2nd graders (the ones who, apparently, aren't allowed to be dropped off) that are more likely to have younger siblings than the older boys. It was in response to a poster saying that anyone staying beyond 1st or 2nd grade was doing it wrong. My point is that if the problem is younger siblings trailing along because they're too young to be left at home, that's more likely to be a problem with the 1st and 2nd graders than with the older boys. Make sense?

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Anonymous wrote:I have two cub scouts. I like that its boys only. The boys are more comfortable this way. There are girls that attend as siblings and they rarely participate. They go off into their own corner and do their own thing. I'm certain that if I asked my 10 yr old he would say no to adding girls.

Why are the girls there? Would they partipate if someone created a den for them? Seems pointless to just hang out.

My daughter goes because she has to. I can't leave her at home. For cub scouts, I have to stay. I'm hoping that by boy scouts it is drop off.

So if you have to stay, and you have to bring your girls, and other parents do too.... how can your boys say they like that cub scouts is boys only? Obviously there are girls there, just not really doing anything.

Why would it be any skin of their noses if the girls were off in their own girl-only cub scout den at the same time that the boys were in their boy only cub scout den?

Wouldn't that make it easier for you as a parent?

DP but that's not how it works. The dens all meet at different times and places so even if there was a girls' den, it wouldn't help with the childcare problem. this is another difference with GS, actually--with GS, the expectation is that you will drop off because they are trying to foster girls' independence. With cub scouts, parents are expected to stay so you end up with a bunch of younger sibs (girls and boys) playing on iPhones or tablets.

Your den is doing it wrong if parents are all staying beyind 1st-2nd grade.

Girl Scouts is drop off from the beginning - even the Daisies. And it's the 1st and 2nd grade boys who are far more likely to have siblings who can't be left alone at home for the meetings.

The holded is one of the silliest statements posted on this entire thread. 1st and 2nd grade girls are just as likely to have young aged siblings as 1st & 2nd grade boys.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two cub scouts. I like that its boys only. The boys are more comfortable this way. There are girls that attend as siblings and they rarely participate. They go off into their own corner and do their own thing. I'm certain that if I asked my 10 yr old he would say no to adding girls.

Why are the girls there? Would they partipate if someone created a den for them? Seems pointless to just hang out.

My daughter goes because she has to. I can't leave her at home. For cub scouts, I have to stay. I'm hoping that by boy scouts it is drop off.

So if you have to stay, and you have to bring your girls, and other parents do too.... how can your boys say they like that cub scouts is boys only? Obviously there are girls there, just not really doing anything.

Why would it be any skin of their noses if the girls were off in their own girl-only cub scout den at the same time that the boys were in their boy only cub scout den?

Wouldn't that make it easier for you as a parent?

DP but that's not how it works. The dens all meet at different times and places so even if there was a girls' den, it wouldn't help with the childcare problem. this is another difference with GS, actually--with GS, the expectation is that you will drop off because they are trying to foster girls' independence. With cub scouts, parents are expected to stay so you end up with a bunch of younger sibs (girls and boys) playing on iPhones or tablets.

Actually, all of my pack's dens meet at the same time and in the same location. We just spread out so we don't interfere with other dens.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two cub scouts. I like that its boys only. The boys are more comfortable this way. There are girls that attend as siblings and they rarely participate. They go off into their own corner and do their own thing. I'm certain that if I asked my 10 yr old he would say no to adding girls.

Why are the girls there? Would they partipate if someone created a den for them? Seems pointless to just hang out.

The girls are there because their parents are there. Many of them are girl scouts. They show next no interest in participating and the boys aren't exactly inviting.

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Anonymous wrote:I have two cub scouts. I like that its boys only. The boys are more comfortable this way. There are girls that attend as siblings and they rarely participate. They go off into their own corner and do their own thing. I'm certain that if I asked my 10 yr old he would say no to adding girls.

Why are the girls there? Would they partipate if someone created a den for them? Seems pointless to just hang out.

My daughter goes because she has to. I can't leave her at home. For cub scouts, I have to stay. I'm hoping that by boy scouts it is drop off.

So if you have to stay, and you have to bring your girls, and other parents do too.... how can your boys say they like that cub scouts is boys only? Obviously there are girls there, just not really doing anything.

Why would it be any skin of their noses if the girls were off in their own girl-only cub scout den at the same time that the boys were in their boy only cub scout den?

Wouldn't that make it easier for you as a parent?

DP but that's not how it works. The dens all meet at different times and places so even if there was a girls' den, it wouldn't help with the childcare problem. this is another difference with GS, actually--with GS, the expectation is that you will drop off because they are trying to foster girls' independence. With cub scouts, parents are expected to stay so you end up with a bunch of younger sibs (girls and boys) playing on iPhones or tablets.

Your den is doing it wrong if parents are all staying beyind 1st-2nd grade.

Why is it wrong? Because you say so? My sons have been a part of a couple of dens in two different states. Both had parents at the den and pack meetings for Tigers and up to and including Webelos. Its great because its an extra pair of hands during knife skills training, knot tying, and other activities. Very few parents drop off. If siblings want to participate, they can if its age appropriate.

Anonymous wrote:
Be the change. Fix GSA, don't try to change Boy Scouts.

At this point, I've kind of lost the plot of your argument.

Again -- GIRL SCOUTS are not trying to change. We are pretty happy the way we are as far as I know (except a lot of us don't like the official program and try to make it more interesting, etc.)

But we are not the ones sending our girls to join Cub Scouts. And we don't have a bunch of little boys desperate to join Girl Scouts either. (For better or for worse... I wish we had a program boys really liked and were attracted to, but as it stands, we don't... again, unless we leaders kind of go rogue and do it ourselves....)

ON THE OTHER HAND apparently Cub Scouts requires families to be involved in Cubbing. So moms, dads and siblings are often involved in pack activities. And it is THESE parents (siblings etc) who see the Cub Scout program and are thinking, that's a great program -- it'd be great if our girls could do it too....

So there's no particular reason to "fix girl scouts".

Why not "fix Cub Scouts"? Stop requiring families to be involved. Stop allowing siblings to come along. Change your program so it's more boring and no one wants to join?

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I have two cub scouts. I like that its boys only. The boys are more comfortable this way. There are girls that attend as siblings and they rarely participate. They go off into their own corner and do their own thing. I'm certain that if I asked my 10 yr old he would say no to adding girls.

Why are the girls there? Would they partipate if someone created a den for them? Seems pointless to just hang out.

My daughter goes because she has to. I can't leave her at home. For cub scouts, I have to stay. I'm hoping that by boy scouts it is drop off.

So if you have to stay, and you have to bring your girls, and other parents do too.... how can your boys say they like that cub scouts is boys only? Obviously there are girls there, just not really doing anything.

Why would it be any skin of their noses if the girls were off in their own girl-only cub scout den at the same time that the boys were in their boy only cub scout den?

Wouldn't that make it easier for you as a parent?

DP but that's not how it works. The dens all meet at different times and places so even if there was a girls' den, it wouldn't help with the childcare problem. this is another difference with GS, actually--with GS, the expectation is that you will drop off because they are trying to foster girls' independence. With cub scouts, parents are expected to stay so you end up with a bunch of younger sibs (girls and boys) playing on iPhones or tablets.

Your den is doing it wrong if parents are all staying beyind 1st-2nd grade.

Girl Scouts is drop off from the beginning - even the Daisies. And it's the 1st and 2nd grade boys who are far more likely to have siblings who can't be left alone at home for the meetings.

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Anonymous wrote: My issue is not that I won't step up but rather the way GS forms troops is by school not interest. My DDs troop is interested in arts and crafts not camping. DD and I end up volunteering to go with other troops who are lacking a certified adult. Its fine and it gets my DD the outdoor experience she wants but she doesn't have a troop of friends that share her interest. We've tried to join some of these troops but meeting time/location often prevent it especially if they meet right after school. I can't get my kid to the other side of the county 15 min after school ends.

Does it have to be by school? In our town and Service Unit, troops are just formed by whoever wants to form them. Our troop is a neighborhood troop and has girls from 7 different schools (and homeschoolers).

Could you start your own evening troop that had girls interested in camping?

Where would I find the girls?

On dcum from all these moms who want to force Boy Scouts to become coed

Girl Scouts definitely does not have to be by school. Around here there are typically far more girls that are wanting to join than troops, so they have waiting lists. Contact your local council and tell them you want to start a troop. They'll get you up and running and help find the girls.