Anonymous wrote:I'm currently going through withdrawal from hydrocodone, which I consider to be poison. I'm looking forward to getting my life back. I have a physical dependence, not addiction (and yes, there's a difference.)

I thought I would post some signs of pill use for those of you worried about kids or other loved ones. The signs are subtle and are not the same for everyone. But things to look for are:

Constipation
Falling asleep quickly at odd times
Excessive talking and ebullience
Irritability

Diarrhea, chills, sneezing, watery eyes (these symptoms occur when you go without the pills for too long after becoming dependent on them. First sign is often excessive sneezing).

Purchasing anti-diarrhea medicine (there's one kind, Imodium, that addicts use to ease withdrawal because it actually is an opiate; it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier so is sold over the counter. Of course now, people are taking it in huge quantities to try to get high, and sometimes dying from it.)

Getting into medicine prescribed for your pets. Tramadol is an opiate-like drug that vets prescribe for pain, but it produces a high. Gabapentin is a drug that vets prescribe for nerve issues and it eases withdrawal symptoms. Of course these drugs are also prescribed for humans, but if your dog is taking them, keep them locked away.

Hope this helps someone.

Do all opiates have the tiny pupil effect?

PP good list just above.

One sure sign this may have graduated to heroin and shooting up is that your large spoons suddenly start disappearing from your cutlery drawer. As they get more into it they will become careless with needles and you can start finding them unhidden in their rooms. Rooms also become complete pig sties. Normal state for some young people, but if it isn't for your teen and it starts happening, investigate. Another sign is complaints of all over itchiness.

I'm currently going through withdrawal from hydrocodone, which I consider to be poison. I'm looking forward to getting my life back. I have a physical dependence, not addiction (and yes, there's a difference.)

I thought I would post some signs of pill use for those of you worried about kids or other loved ones. The signs are subtle and are not the same for everyone. But things to look for are:

Constipation
Falling asleep quickly at odd times
Excessive talking and ebullience
Irritability

Diarrhea, chills, sneezing, watery eyes (these symptoms occur when you go without the pills for too long after becoming dependent on them. First sign is often excessive sneezing).

Purchasing anti-diarrhea medicine (there's one kind, Imodium, that addicts use to ease withdrawal because it actually is an opiate; it doesn't cross the blood brain barrier so is sold over the counter. Of course now, people are taking it in huge quantities to try to get high, and sometimes dying from it.)

Getting into medicine prescribed for your pets. Tramadol is an opiate-like drug that vets prescribe for pain, but it produces a high. Gabapentin is a drug that vets prescribe for nerve issues and it eases withdrawal symptoms. Of course these drugs are also prescribed for humans, but if your dog is taking them, keep them locked away.

Hope this helps someone.

Agree with PP directly above. Expanding the definition of addiction so broadly as one PP is insisting is not useful for addressing our current addiction crisis that is killing scores of people daily.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Half of those people having nightly wine are addicted also. A drug is a drug and it does nothing good to your brain.

Citation please.

It is how the brain works. If you drink wine every night for two years and then stop all at once you will go through withdrawal. Why because you have changed your brain chemistry. So you were addicted to a drug. Same as if you were smoking cigarettes every day. Also if you drink wine every night to get a buzz and you have kids then you are parenting your child constantly when you are buzzed. You may not reach the level of addiction where people drink 2 bottles of vodka a night and can't get up to go to work and end up losing their jobs. But all drugs and alcohol give a temporary high that changes the brain. Alcohol and drug use and abuse is more on a spectrum of how much damage it is causing your brain and life. If you are drinking nightly you are on that spectrum and causing more damage than you can admit.

Thanks for that citation from the published research of your butt.

You sound like my alcoholic in law that lashes out at everyone because they can't face the truth. Trying to rationalize your wine cellars filled with 100's of bottles of a liquid drug.

You're barking up the wrong tree, sister. But it's clear that you have mistaken your opinions for facts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had two spine surgeries in Jail an. And was taken off the pain pump after 24:hours. Otherwise, pain pills were given out on a strict timeline. I was given a prescription for pain upon release from hospital but never had prescription filled. It is a choice.

What is a choice? Having surgery? Feeling pain? Going to a hospital that strictly regulates pain control? Filling prescriptions? Being a person who understands that different people have different experiences?

You have a choice to take a pain medicine or to suffer through the pain. A lot of people prefer to feel the pain for some time and to let your body rest instead medicating themselves. Yes, filling prescription is a choice that a lot of people make. Everyone I know never fill those prescriptions.

OK. Everyone I know understands that different people have different experiences.

Fentanyl on the street pushed by sellers is strong and killing people. The drug business is booming.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I had two spine surgeries in Jail an. And was taken off the pain pump after 24:hours. Otherwise, pain pills were given out on a strict timeline. I was given a prescription for pain upon release from hospital but never had prescription filled. It is a choice.

What is a choice? Having surgery? Feeling pain? Going to a hospital that strictly regulates pain control? Filling prescriptions? Being a person who understands that different people have different experiences?

You have a choice to take a pain medicine or to suffer through the pain. A lot of people prefer to feel the pain for some time and to let your body rest instead medicating themselves. Yes, filling prescription is a choice that a lot of people make. Everyone I know never fill those prescriptions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Half of those people having nightly wine are addicted also. A drug is a drug and it does nothing good to your brain.

Citation please.

It is how the brain works. If you drink wine every night for two years and then stop all at once you will go through withdrawal. Why because you have changed your brain chemistry. So you were addicted to a drug. Same as if you were smoking cigarettes every day. Also if you drink wine every night to get a buzz and you have kids then you are parenting your child constantly when you are buzzed. You may not reach the level of addiction where people drink 2 bottles of vodka a night and can't get up to go to work and end up losing their jobs. But all drugs and alcohol give a temporary high that changes the brain. Alcohol and drug use and abuse is more on a spectrum of how much damage it is causing your brain and life. If you are drinking nightly you are on that spectrum and causing more damage than you can admit.

That's not a citation. It's an explanation of your personal beliefs about addiction.

No its truth.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Actually, two in my immediate family. Thanks though. Yes, once you are addicted, it's a disease. Self medicating with drugs is not a disease.

How about the thing you're self-medicating (or not self-medicating; these are prescription drugs, after all) -- is that a disease, or is it a choice too?

Do you know how many people out there just pop a Percocet or codeine for the fun of it? Those are choices.

A couple of myths about treating opiate addiction, some of these appearing in this thread, that can contribute to poor treatment outcomes:

1) Treatment doesn't work unless the addict wants to recover. False; court mandated attendees of rehab have success rates as good as those who attend rehab voluntarily.

2) The addict has to hit rock bottom before treatment can work. False; early treatment has the highest success rates. Hitting bottom means no treatment until someone is a hardened long-term user. These are the hardest people to treat.

3) Parents need to tough love their addict children or they are enabling them. False; kids parents who treat this as a medical problem and not a moral failing that reflects poorly on them have a much better chance of success. This does not rule out boundary setting--Naranon can be helpful for parents in this regard.

4) A personal physician is the best source of advice on how to treat addiction. False; very few doctors have a clue about how to approach addiction and really don't want to deal with it. They will throw out crazy suggestions like sending a relatively new addict to a methadone clinic (suitable only for the most hardened addicts) or call a colleague up and give the suggestion of a random rehab.

5) Because recovery often fails, we should just rely on "harm reduction." False; this amounts to relegating anyone with even just a nascent addiction problem to a lifetime of addiction by maintaining them for years on addictive substitutes like methadone and suboxone, which can be even more difficult drugs to kick. Even worse, people on these drugs often still use heroin whenever they can get enough cash to score. Naltrexone, injectable or implant, is a much better route as it is not addictive and blocks opiate receptors.

6) Detox can be done only in a medical facility. False; for otherwise reasonably healthy people, opiate detox is not dangerous. Supervised at home detox is way more uncomfortable than medical detox, which serves as a deterrent to future use. Medical detox often relies on suboxone, an equally addictive drug, whereas home detox does not.

7) Residential rehab is the only sure way to recovery. False; residential rehab success rates are abysmally low. The rehabs justify them by saying relapse is part of the recovery process and eventually the person will recover by cycling through rehab over and over. Many community run outpatient rehabs and DIY rehab (at home detox and lots of NA) supervised by knowledgeable family have better success rates at a fraction of the cost (almost none for DIY). The book "Inside Rehab" is instructive here.

Except in rare cases, long-term opiate use is not a good answer to chronic pain. There are many side effects besides addiction and you can add a number of medical woes to your original one.

I do think there are times where a particular pain can spasm and feed on itself and the occasional opiate can be useful for helping the body out of the cycle. This requires a small emergency prescription of say three or so pills. i do think chronic pain patients should be able to have access to break glass in the case of fire pain relief.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Half of those people having nightly wine are addicted also. A drug is a drug and it does nothing good to your brain.

Citation please.

It is how the brain works. If you drink wine every night for two years and then stop all at once you will go through withdrawal. Why because you have changed your brain chemistry. So you were addicted to a drug. Same as if you were smoking cigarettes every day. Also if you drink wine every night to get a buzz and you have kids then you are parenting your child constantly when you are buzzed. You may not reach the level of addiction where people drink 2 bottles of vodka a night and can't get up to go to work and end up losing their jobs. But all drugs and alcohol give a temporary high that changes the brain. Alcohol and drug use and abuse is more on a spectrum of how much damage it is causing your brain and life. If you are drinking nightly you are on that spectrum and causing more damage than you can admit.

That's not a citation. It's an explanation of your personal beliefs about addiction.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really surprised by these stories of people getting 100 Percocet from a doc. I know it happens, but I've had chronic pain for years and it is an extremely arduous process to obtain any opiod. I've been to probably 15different neurologist and pain docs and over half of them will not prescribe opiods for people with chronic illness.

Ha! I don't believe you.

Well, it's true. Several practices even have signs in the lobby stating that they won't even discuss opiod or long term opiod use. Even Johns Hopkins has a similar policy, though I don't think they advertise it. I guess that's why nobody was in the waiting room last time I went! Lol

At a pain management clinic? Or a regular physician practice?

Not PP, but another chronic pain patient (I have Ehlers-Danlos). I have run into the same thing when seeing "normal" doctors around DC for the last decade. Many regular physicians and pain clinics will tell you outright that they do not prescribe X, Y, and Z. If you go to a legitimate doctor with legitimate pain, it can be truly hard to get effective treatment. My current doctor made me sign a contract and do urine testing to get 10 pills to be used over 6 months when a joint randomly dislocates on me.

The problem is how to crack down on "pill farms" run by sketchy doctors without harming people who actually need medication.

^^It ends with a Vivitrol implant that needs to be changed approximately every two months, not weeks.