Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...and a Jewish Student Graduation Celebration at U of Wisconsin:

Celebrate your graduation with friends and family at Hillel!

On Friday, May 12, 2017 at 11 AM, graduates and their families will join us for a celebratory brunch. Immediately following the brunch, at 12 PM, we will join together for a short ceremony recognizing graduates. An esteemed member of the University of Wisconsin administration will join us and a specially selected graduating senior will speak. Click here to register for our graduation celebration.

A wine and cheese reception follows the ceremony.

Graduation Shabbat

That's a lot different from what we're discussing here. But I wouldn't expect a University of Wisconsin graduate to be able to see that.

Anonymous wrote:I have found that with some White people, this idea of integration and inclusion is a sham. The reason being that the “default” standard for integration is based on White norms. In other words, Whites want POC who integrate to meet them on their playing field – meet them in their safe space. The question I have for Whites who somehow think these types of ceremonies are divisive is whether you are willing to “cross the aisle” in the name of inclusion and integration. Would you join a Black church? How about a Black sorority? Would you join an Asian chamber of commerce organization? Or is it that you expect POC to abandon their traditions and norms to integrate with you? Just curious. Instead of condemning these ceremonies, ask if you can attend. My grad school roommate was Asian and I attended the university’s Asian celebration to support her. Her family and others there appreciated that I was willing to embrace what they were doing and support her.

Anonymous wrote:I have found that with some White people, this idea of integration and inclusion is a sham. The reason being that the “default” standard for integration is based on White norms. In other words, Whites want POC who integrate to meet them on their playing field – meet them in their safe space. The question I have for Whites who somehow think these types of ceremonies are divisive is whether you are willing to “cross the aisle” in the name of inclusion and integration. Would you join a Black church? How about a Black sorority? Would you join an Asian chamber of commerce organization? Or is it that you expect POC to abandon their traditions and norms to integrate with you? Just curious. Instead of condemning these ceremonies, ask if you can attend. My grad school roommate was Asian and I attended the university’s Asian celebration to support her. Her family and others there appreciated that I was willing to embrace what they were doing and support her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So basically when it comes to negative things like crime and violence and poverty there is this thing called the "black community" - IT DOES EXIST - and it is the sole responsibility of that "black community" is to fix all those problems and cure all those social ills and basically get it together because as its often echoed and propagated, the "black community" is a mess, so there is a great need for black people to get together and respect one another.

HOWEVER...

When it comes to positive things like academic achievement and dream fulfillment and opening doors to greater opportunity there is no such thing as a "black community" - IT SHOULD NOT EXIST - and it is a slap in the face of whites everywhere for black students to try and establish a "black community" to support one another and network with one another and celebrate one another because as its often echoed and propagated, the "white community" is pure paradise, so there is no need for black people to get together and recognize one another because they're already in heaven at Harvard.

I'm not sure you're reading this correctly. I don't believe anybody would ever say there should t be a black community. I think the prevailing sentiment is that at some point you also must integrate with the rest i society. I've read many breads on this board making the accurate observation of how difficult it is for some AA kids to adjust to line in college. This is a real issue and AAs consequently have lower graduation rate, even from top schools. But maybe, just maybe, if those AA students didn't stick together so clannishly in HS and integrated more with the broader student population, would they have had an easier time in college? I could say the same for the college to workplace transition. I think organizations like Jack and a Jill are great, but not at the exclusion of forming social bonds with the rest of the student body.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So basically when it comes to negative things like crime and violence and poverty there is this thing called the "black community" - IT DOES EXIST - and it is the sole responsibility of that "black community" is to fix all those problems and cure all those social ills and basically get it together because as its often echoed and propagated, the "black community" is a mess, so there is a great need for black people to get together and respect one another.

HOWEVER...

When it comes to positive things like academic achievement and dream fulfillment and opening doors to greater opportunity there is no such thing as a "black community" - IT SHOULD NOT EXIST - and it is a slap in the face of whites everywhere for black students to try and establish a "black community" to support one another and network with one another and celebrate one another because as its often echoed and propagated, the "white community" is pure paradise, so there is no need for black people to get together and recognize one another because they're already in heaven at Harvard.

I'm not sure you're reading this correctly. I don't believe anybody would ever say there should t be a black community. I think the prevailing sentiment is that at some point you also must integrate with the rest i society. I've read many breads on this board making the accurate observation of how difficult it is for some AA kids to adjust to line in college. This is a real issue and AAs consequently have lower graduation rate, even from top schools. But maybe, just maybe, if those AA students didn't stick together so clannishly in HS and integrated more with the broader student population, would they have had an easier time in college? I could say the same for the college to workplace transition. I think organizations like Jack and a Jill are great, but not at the exclusion of forming social bonds with the rest of the student body.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So basically when it comes to negative things like crime and violence and poverty there is this thing called the "black community" - IT DOES EXIST - and it is the sole responsibility of that "black community" is to fix all those problems and cure all those social ills and basically get it together because as its often echoed and propagated, the "black community" is a mess, so there is a great need for black people to get together and respect one another.

HOWEVER...

When it comes to positive things like academic achievement and dream fulfillment and opening doors to greater opportunity there is no such thing as a "black community" - IT SHOULD NOT EXIST - and it is a slap in the face of whites everywhere for black students to try and establish a "black community" to support one another and network with one another and celebrate one another because as its often echoed and propagated, the "white community" is pure paradise, so there is no need for black people to get together and recognize one another because they're already in heaven at Harvard.

I'm not sure you're reading this correctly. I don't believe anybody would ever say there should t be a black community. I think the prevailing sentiment is that at some point you also must integrate with the rest i society. I've read many breads on this board making the accurate observation of how difficult it is for some AA kids to adjust to line in college. This is a real issue and AAs consequently have lower graduation rate, even from top schools. But maybe, just maybe, if those AA students didn't stick together so clannishly in HS and integrated more with the broader student population, would they have had an easier time in college? I could say the same for the college to workplace transition. I think organizations like Jack and a Jill are great, but not at the exclusion of forming social bonds with the rest of the student body.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So basically when it comes to negative things like crime and violence and poverty there is this thing called the "black community" - IT DOES EXIST - and it is the sole responsibility of that "black community" is to fix all those problems and cure all those social ills and basically get it together because as its often echoed and propagated, the "black community" is a mess, so there is a great need for black people to get together and respect one another.

HOWEVER...

When it comes to positive things like academic achievement and dream fulfillment and opening doors to greater opportunity there is no such thing as a "black community" - IT SHOULD NOT EXIST - and it is a slap in the face of whites everywhere for black students to try and establish a "black community" to support one another and network with one another and celebrate one another because as its often echoed and propagated, the "white community" is pure paradise, so there is no need for black people to get together and recognize one another because they're already in heaven at Harvard.

Wow! Nailed it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So basically when it comes to negative things like crime and violence and poverty there is this thing called the "black community" - IT DOES EXIST - and it is the sole responsibility of that "black community" is to fix all those problems and cure all those social ills and basically get it together because as its often echoed and propagated, the "black community" is a mess, so there is a great need for black people to get together and respect one another.

HOWEVER...

When it comes to positive things like academic achievement and dream fulfillment and opening doors to greater opportunity there is no such thing as a "black community" - IT SHOULD NOT EXIST - and it is a slap in the face of whites everywhere for black students to try and establish a "black community" to support one another and network with one another and celebrate one another because as its often echoed and propagated, the "white community" is pure paradise, so there is no need for black people to get together and recognize one another because they're already in heaven at Harvard.

I'm not sure you're reading this correctly. I don't believe anybody would ever say there should t be a black community. I think the prevailing sentiment is that at some point you also must integrate with the rest i society. I've read many breads on this board making the accurate observation of how difficult it is for some AA kids to adjust to line in college. This is a real issue and AAs consequently have lower graduation rate, even from top schools. But maybe, just maybe, if those AA students didn't stick together so Klannishly in HS and integrated more with the broader student population, would they have had an easier time in college? I could say the same for the college to workplace transition. I think organizations like Jack and a Jill are great, but not at the exclusion of forming social bonds with the rest of the student body.

Anonymous wrote:So basically when it comes to negative things like crime and violence and poverty there is this thing called the "black community" - IT DOES EXIST - and it is the sole responsibility of that "black community" is to fix all those problems and cure all those social ills and basically get it together because as its often echoed and propagated, the "black community" is a mess, so there is a great need for black people to get together and respect one another.

HOWEVER...

When it comes to positive things like academic achievement and dream fulfillment and opening doors to greater opportunity there is no such thing as a "black community" - IT SHOULD NOT EXIST - and it is a slap in the face of whites everywhere for black students to try and establish a "black community" to support one another and network with one another and celebrate one another because as its often echoed and propagated, the "white community" is pure paradise, so there is no need for black people to get together and recognize one another because they're already in heaven at Harvard.

Anonymous wrote:So basically when it comes to negative things like crime and violence and poverty there is this thing called the "black community" - IT DOES EXIST - and it is the sole responsibility of that "black community" is to fix all those problems and cure all those social ills and basically get it together because as its often echoed and propagated, the "black community" is a mess, so there is a great need for black people to get together and respect one another.

HOWEVER...

When it comes to positive things like academic achievement and dream fulfillment and opening doors to greater opportunity there is no such thing as a "black community" - IT SHOULD NOT EXIST - and it is a slap in the face of whites everywhere for black students to try and establish a "black community" to support one another and network with one another and celebrate one another because as its often echoed and propagated, the "white community" is pure paradise, so there is no need for black people to get together and recognize one another because they're already in heaven at Harvard.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for them. I'm AA and attended another Ivy for graduate training, after an HBCU for undergrad. I can see the desire for such a celebration, in addition to the regular ceremony.

Apparently it's mostly for Harvard graduate students at this point, but they're hoping to extend to undergrads in future years.

Can you elaborate?

PP here. If you're AA or Latino at many institutions, you're part of a pretty small minority. My brother visited me during my Ivy training and commented about how the black students around campus looked lost--lol. He was probably projecting, but still, I can see how for many, it might feel a bit lonely. Having a community can help provide a sense of support during the transition and matriculation, IMO, especially for undergrad.

So basically, sometimes members of these groups seek out others who have their cultural background and shared experiences for a sort of built-in sense of community and support. This graduation ceremony simply seems like an extension/capstone to that experience.

Imagine how Jeremy Lin feels in the NBA.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good for them. I'm AA and attended another Ivy for graduate training, after an HBCU for undergrad. I can see the desire for such a celebration, in addition to the regular ceremony.

Apparently it's mostly for Harvard graduate students at this point, but they're hoping to extend to undergrads in future years.

Can you elaborate?

PP here. If you're AA or Latino at many institutions, you're part of a pretty small minority. My brother visited me during my Ivy training and commented about how the black students around campus looked lost--lol. He was probably projecting, but still, I can see how for many, it might feel a bit lonely. Having a community can help provide a sense of support during the transition and matriculation, IMO, especially for undergrad.

So basically, sometimes members of these groups seek out others who have their cultural background and shared experiences for a sort of built-in sense of community and support. This graduation ceremony simply seems like an extension/capstone to that experience.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have found that with some White people, this idea of integration and inclusion is a sham. The reason being that the “default” standard for integration is based on White norms. In other words, Whites want POC who integrate to meet them on their playing field – meet them in their safe space. The question I have for Whites who somehow think these types of ceremonies are divisive is whether you are willing to “cross the aisle” in the name of inclusion and integration. Would you join a Black church? How about a Black sorority? Would you join an Asian chamber of commerce organization? Or is it that you expect POC to abandon their traditions and norms to integrate with you? Just curious. Instead of condemning these ceremonies, ask if you can attend. My grad school roommate was Asian and I attended the university’s Asian celebration to support her. Her family and others there appreciated that I was willing to embrace what they were doing and support her.

There is just the norm, not the black or white or brown norm. And yes, the norm today is predominantly driven by the historic prevalence of white culture, but that is changing fairly quickly (relative to the past). So you can take a seat at the table and put your imprint on how the norm will evolve or you can have your own table in the dining hall, your own fraternities, your own ceremonies, etc. Nobody is saying that every minority group shouldn't be loud and proud about their own culture and celebrate any way they choose, but you seem intent on segregation. And your false equivalencies about the "crossing the aisle" are just infantile. BTw, you might want to study how the LGBTQ community managed to change the norm in a remarkable fashion regarding same-sex marriage. It wasn't too many years ago that Obama, Clinton and the entire democratic establishment were firmly against this issue. But by engaging with the mainstream and educating and socializing, the LGBTQ community has now made same-sex marriage part of the mainstream ideology. That's called progress. What you're advocating is a regressive, dead-end approach. But go ahead and hold steadfast to your belief, witness zero progress towards racial unity and then blame everybody but yourself.