This entire thread is nothing but the same tired debate rehashed a thousand times over. When will people get real and admit that their ridiculous "rankings" are all about SES. Is Langley really a "better" school than McLean, or is it just wealthier? Is Madison "better" than Marshall or does it simply have fewer FARMS students?

What a joke.

Anonymous wrote:I definitely think Marshall has improved over the last 10-15 years. It is at the point where it is much better than Stuart and Falls Church, but not at the level of Langley, Madison, Mclean, George Mason, Yorktown ( I think that is all the surrounding schools).


However, unless your stuck at Stuart/Falls Church or want your child to have some religious curriculum, I wouldn't waste money on a private school around here. When we hear horror stories on the news about Americas failing public schools, they are not referring to us.

You can have access to dozens of AP courses at Falls Church and avoid IB.

This thread might as well be closed. The same poster has been praising Madison and bashing Marshall for literally years. It's easily identifiable because he/she uses the same arguments every time. AP/IB, Woodson parent protest, desirable schools are AP, why aren't they asking for IB, IB costs to the county, support of the town of Vienna.

It's the same song on every thread whenever anyone asks about Marshall.

I definitely think Marshall has improved over the last 10-15 years. It is at the point where it is much better than Stuart and Falls Church, but not at the level of Langley, Madison, Mclean, George Mason, Yorktown ( I think that is all the surrounding schools).


However, unless your stuck at Stuart/Falls Church or want your child to have some religious curriculum, I wouldn't waste money on a private school around here. When we hear horror stories on the news about Americas failing public schools, they are not referring to us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is someone losing out on AP because of IB? FCPS has decided to do two things: offer a rigorous alternative to AP as well as encourage greater diversification of SES, race and ethinicity at its schools. God knows that students at Langley, McKean and Nadisin could benefit from a bit more diversity. They are entering a working world that is decidedly less white in the near future.

And despite Trump, globalization ain't going anywhere and students equipped with the skills to think and act in a global context will be in high demand. I already know this from my own personal experience as a multi-lingual professional with significant international and multi-cultural management experience. The head hunters keep knocking,

Actually people are missing out on AP because of IB. I'm in the Stuart pyramid and the participation in the IB diploma program is very low. I know numerous families who would prefer AP but can't allow their kids to do AP because their jobs don't allow them the flexibility to drop off and pick their kids up at school on a daily basis. Yes, they can move, but considering the low participation in the program, I'm not sure why the program is still at the school. IB is not cost neutral. I also doubt the kids taking AP languages are at a disadvantage to those taking an IB language. The AP kids aren't lacking the opportunity to be multilingual.

I think this is spot on. OP stated that her preference was to find a home in the Madison pyramid, it was worried that she might be priced out and should consider Marshall instead.

It wasn't clear that she appreciated the significant difference between AP and IB programs, which others described. It's the Marshall posters who have simultaneously decided to treat that as an attack on Marshall and try to sell OP on IB while denigrating AP. If OP looks into this and concludes that the IB Diploma program looks like a great fit for her kids, I really doubt anyone at the nearby AP schools would extend anything other than congratulations.

As for the suggestion that Madison/McLean/Langley look down on Marshall because of its greater diversity, that's hogwash. Compared to the typical FCPS high school in 2017, Marshall's student body is affluent, and I've seen any number of posts on DCUM over the years from Pimmit Hills (feeds into Marshall) posters that were highly condescending towards Falls Church and Stuart neighborhoods.

Oh, I see. So this has just been a polite discourse on the relative merits of IB vs. AP in two equivalent schools? Strikes me that there's a bit more going on. Let's review a few select quotes from this thread:

If you asked people in N. Arl. and McLean what they associate with Marshall High School, fully 60% of them would respond "white trash." I would not go anywhere near that school.

For heaven's sake, the white families that live in that area mow their front lawns with dust busters. Marshall is not where you want to be.

There is no reason to settle for Marshall...

I don't understand why you aren't still looking in the Madison district...it's a better school than Marshall

Yeah, can't imagine why the Marshall folks might be feeling bashed...

Signed,
--not zoned for Marshall

The first two quotes are obvious trolling, the second two quotes are just urging OP to stick to her preferred choice, and you don't know in any event where thosd posters live.

Urging OP to go to Madison because Marshall is supposedly "inferior," which implies much more than an IB vs. AP debate.

It's generally known in Vienna that Madison also has stronger community support (from the Town of Vienna), better music programs, and stronger athletics. The heart of the Marshall district is Tysons, and "America's Next Great City" still doesn't have that much of a sense of community.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is someone losing out on AP because of IB? FCPS has decided to do two things: offer a rigorous alternative to AP as well as encourage greater diversification of SES, race and ethinicity at its schools. God knows that students at Langley, McKean and Nadisin could benefit from a bit more diversity. They are entering a working world that is decidedly less white in the near future.

And despite Trump, globalization ain't going anywhere and students equipped with the skills to think and act in a global context will be in high demand. I already know this from my own personal experience as a multi-lingual professional with significant international and multi-cultural management experience. The head hunters keep knocking,

Actually people are missing out on AP because of IB. I'm in the Stuart pyramid and the participation in the IB diploma program is very low. I know numerous families who would prefer AP but can't allow their kids to do AP because their jobs don't allow them the flexibility to drop off and pick their kids up at school on a daily basis. Yes, they can move, but considering the low participation in the program, I'm not sure why the program is still at the school. IB is not cost neutral. I also doubt the kids taking AP languages are at a disadvantage to those taking an IB language. The AP kids aren't lacking the opportunity to be multilingual.

I think this is spot on. OP stated that her preference was to find a home in the Madison pyramid, it was worried that she might be priced out and should consider Marshall instead.

It wasn't clear that she appreciated the significant difference between AP and IB programs, which others described. It's the Marshall posters who have simultaneously decided to treat that as an attack on Marshall and try to sell OP on IB while denigrating AP. If OP looks into this and concludes that the IB Diploma program looks like a great fit for her kids, I really doubt anyone at the nearby AP schools would extend anything other than congratulations.

As for the suggestion that Madison/McLean/Langley look down on Marshall because of its greater diversity, that's hogwash. Compared to the typical FCPS high school in 2017, Marshall's student body is affluent, and I've seen any number of posts on DCUM over the years from Pimmit Hills (feeds into Marshall) posters that were highly condescending towards Falls Church and Stuart neighborhoods.

Oh, I see. So this has just been a polite discourse on the relative merits of IB vs. AP in two equivalent schools? Strikes me that there's a bit more going on. Let's review a few select quotes from this thread:

If you asked people in N. Arl. and McLean what they associate with Marshall High School, fully 60% of them would respond "white trash." I would not go anywhere near that school.

For heaven's sake, the white families that live in that area mow their front lawns with dust busters. Marshall is not where you want to be.

There is no reason to settle for Marshall...

I don't understand why you aren't still looking in the Madison district...it's a better school than Marshall

Yeah, can't imagine why the Marshall folks might be feeling bashed...

Signed,
--not zoned for Marshall

The first two quotes are obvious trolling, the second two quotes are just urging OP to stick to her preferred choice, and you don't know in any event where thosd posters live.

Urging OP to go to Madison because Marshall is supposedly "inferior," which implies much more than an IB vs. AP debate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is someone losing out on AP because of IB? FCPS has decided to do two things: offer a rigorous alternative to AP as well as encourage greater diversification of SES, race and ethinicity at its schools. God knows that students at Langley, McKean and Nadisin could benefit from a bit more diversity. They are entering a working world that is decidedly less white in the near future.

And despite Trump, globalization ain't going anywhere and students equipped with the skills to think and act in a global context will be in high demand. I already know this from my own personal experience as a multi-lingual professional with significant international and multi-cultural management experience. The head hunters keep knocking,

Actually people are missing out on AP because of IB. I'm in the Stuart pyramid and the participation in the IB diploma program is very low. I know numerous families who would prefer AP but can't allow their kids to do AP because their jobs don't allow them the flexibility to drop off and pick their kids up at school on a daily basis. Yes, they can move, but considering the low participation in the program, I'm not sure why the program is still at the school. IB is not cost neutral. I also doubt the kids taking AP languages are at a disadvantage to those taking an IB language. The AP kids aren't lacking the opportunity to be multilingual.

Then why don't you advocate for a change at your school? The rest of the county is behind you (saves cost and most think it will attract more families to that area) but it needs actual parents from those schools to advocate for a change.

I've tried to bring a change to a different IB high school. The School Board doesn't want to budge, despite clear evidence that the program is not working very well. A number of them really think it is better than AP. If it is so wonderful, why aren't schools like Langley, Madison, and West Springfield asking for it?

As for the original poster - you should think twice before enrolling your student in an IB high school. The program lacks flexibility and can be problematic for students who like to participate in extracurricular activities.

I think the parents at the AP schools like Madison are happy with their kids' experience, have heard that IB is very prescriptive, and have no reason to think IB provides any advantage. Their kids are already doing lots of extracurricular activities, so they don't want to be forced into a program designed for students who attend schools abroad that don't have similar extracurricular opportunities.

My two cents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is someone losing out on AP because of IB? FCPS has decided to do two things: offer a rigorous alternative to AP as well as encourage greater diversification of SES, race and ethinicity at its schools. God knows that students at Langley, McKean and Nadisin could benefit from a bit more diversity. They are entering a working world that is decidedly less white in the near future.

And despite Trump, globalization ain't going anywhere and students equipped with the skills to think and act in a global context will be in high demand. I already know this from my own personal experience as a multi-lingual professional with significant international and multi-cultural management experience. The head hunters keep knocking,

Actually people are missing out on AP because of IB. I'm in the Stuart pyramid and the participation in the IB diploma program is very low. I know numerous families who would prefer AP but can't allow their kids to do AP because their jobs don't allow them the flexibility to drop off and pick their kids up at school on a daily basis. Yes, they can move, but considering the low participation in the program, I'm not sure why the program is still at the school. IB is not cost neutral. I also doubt the kids taking AP languages are at a disadvantage to those taking an IB language. The AP kids aren't lacking the opportunity to be multilingual.

I think this is spot on. OP stated that her preference was to find a home in the Madison pyramid, it was worried that she might be priced out and should consider Marshall instead.

It wasn't clear that she appreciated the significant difference between AP and IB programs, which others described. It's the Marshall posters who have simultaneously decided to treat that as an attack on Marshall and try to sell OP on IB while denigrating AP. If OP looks into this and concludes that the IB Diploma program looks like a great fit for her kids, I really doubt anyone at the nearby AP schools would extend anything other than congratulations.

As for the suggestion that Madison/McLean/Langley look down on Marshall because of its greater diversity, that's hogwash. Compared to the typical FCPS high school in 2017, Marshall's student body is affluent, and I've seen any number of posts on DCUM over the years from Pimmit Hills (feeds into Marshall) posters that were highly condescending towards Falls Church and Stuart neighborhoods.

Oh, I see. So this has just been a polite discourse on the relative merits of IB vs. AP in two equivalent schools? Strikes me that there's a bit more going on. Let's review a few select quotes from this thread:

If you asked people in N. Arl. and McLean what they associate with Marshall High School, fully 60% of them would respond "white trash." I would not go anywhere near that school.

For heaven's sake, the white families that live in that area mow their front lawns with dust busters. Marshall is not where you want to be.

There is no reason to settle for Marshall...

I don't understand why you aren't still looking in the Madison district...it's a better school than Marshall

Yeah, can't imagine why the Marshall folks might be feeling bashed...

Signed,
--not zoned for Marshall

The first two quotes are obvious trolling, the second two quotes are just urging OP to stick to her preferred choice, and you don't know in any event where thosd posters live.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is someone losing out on AP because of IB? FCPS has decided to do two things: offer a rigorous alternative to AP as well as encourage greater diversification of SES, race and ethinicity at its schools. God knows that students at Langley, McKean and Nadisin could benefit from a bit more diversity. They are entering a working world that is decidedly less white in the near future.

And despite Trump, globalization ain't going anywhere and students equipped with the skills to think and act in a global context will be in high demand. I already know this from my own personal experience as a multi-lingual professional with significant international and multi-cultural management experience. The head hunters keep knocking,

Actually people are missing out on AP because of IB. I'm in the Stuart pyramid and the participation in the IB diploma program is very low. I know numerous families who would prefer AP but can't allow their kids to do AP because their jobs don't allow them the flexibility to drop off and pick their kids up at school on a daily basis. Yes, they can move, but considering the low participation in the program, I'm not sure why the program is still at the school. IB is not cost neutral. I also doubt the kids taking AP languages are at a disadvantage to those taking an IB language. The AP kids aren't lacking the opportunity to be multilingual.

I think this is spot on. OP stated that her preference was to find a home in the Madison pyramid, it was worried that she might be priced out and should consider Marshall instead.

It wasn't clear that she appreciated the significant difference between AP and IB programs, which others described. It's the Marshall posters who have simultaneously decided to treat that as an attack on Marshall and try to sell OP on IB while denigrating AP. If OP looks into this and concludes that the IB Diploma program looks like a great fit for her kids, I really doubt anyone at the nearby AP schools would extend anything other than congratulations.

As for the suggestion that Madison/McLean/Langley look down on Marshall because of its greater diversity, that's hogwash. Compared to the typical FCPS high school in 2017, Marshall's student body is affluent, and I've seen any number of posts on DCUM over the years from Pimmit Hills (feeds into Marshall) posters that were highly condescending towards Falls Church and Stuart neighborhoods.

Oh, I see. So this has just been a polite discourse on the relative merits of IB vs. AP in two equivalent schools? Strikes me that there's a bit more going on. Let's review a few select quotes from this thread:

If you asked people in N. Arl. and McLean what they associate with Marshall High School, fully 60% of them would respond "white trash." I would not go anywhere near that school.

For heaven's sake, the white families that live in that area mow their front lawns with dust busters. Marshall is not where you want to be.

There is no reason to settle for Marshall...

I don't understand why you aren't still looking in the Madison district...it's a better school than Marshall

Yeah, can't imagine why the Marshall folks might be feeling bashed...

Signed,
--not zoned for Marshall

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is someone losing out on AP because of IB? FCPS has decided to do two things: offer a rigorous alternative to AP as well as encourage greater diversification of SES, race and ethinicity at its schools. God knows that students at Langley, McKean and Nadisin could benefit from a bit more diversity. They are entering a working world that is decidedly less white in the near future.

And despite Trump, globalization ain't going anywhere and students equipped with the skills to think and act in a global context will be in high demand. I already know this from my own personal experience as a multi-lingual professional with significant international and multi-cultural management experience. The head hunters keep knocking,

Actually people are missing out on AP because of IB. I'm in the Stuart pyramid and the participation in the IB diploma program is very low. I know numerous families who would prefer AP but can't allow their kids to do AP because their jobs don't allow them the flexibility to drop off and pick their kids up at school on a daily basis. Yes, they can move, but considering the low participation in the program, I'm not sure why the program is still at the school. IB is not cost neutral. I also doubt the kids taking AP languages are at a disadvantage to those taking an IB language. The AP kids aren't lacking the opportunity to be multilingual.

Then why don't you advocate for a change at your school? The rest of the county is behind you (saves cost and most think it will attract more families to that area) but it needs actual parents from those schools to advocate for a change.

I've tried to bring a change to a different IB high school. The School Board doesn't want to budge, despite clear evidence that the program is not working very well. A number of them really think it is better than AP. If it is so wonderful, why aren't schools like Langley, Madison, and West Springfield asking for it?

As for the original poster - you should think twice before enrolling your student in an IB high school. The program lacks flexibility and can be problematic for students who like to participate in extracurricular activities.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is someone losing out on AP because of IB? FCPS has decided to do two things: offer a rigorous alternative to AP as well as encourage greater diversification of SES, race and ethinicity at its schools. God knows that students at Langley, McKean and Nadisin could benefit from a bit more diversity. They are entering a working world that is decidedly less white in the near future.

And despite Trump, globalization ain't going anywhere and students equipped with the skills to think and act in a global context will be in high demand. I already know this from my own personal experience as a multi-lingual professional with significant international and multi-cultural management experience. The head hunters keep knocking,

Actually people are missing out on AP because of IB. I'm in the Stuart pyramid and the participation in the IB diploma program is very low. I know numerous families who would prefer AP but can't allow their kids to do AP because their jobs don't allow them the flexibility to drop off and pick their kids up at school on a daily basis. Yes, they can move, but considering the low participation in the program, I'm not sure why the program is still at the school. IB is not cost neutral. I also doubt the kids taking AP languages are at a disadvantage to those taking an IB language. The AP kids aren't lacking the opportunity to be multilingual.

I think this is spot on. OP stated that her preference was to find a home in the Madison pyramid, it was worried that she might be priced out and should consider Marshall instead.

It wasn't clear that she appreciated the significant difference between AP and IB programs, which others described. It's the Marshall posters who have simultaneously decided to treat that as an attack on Marshall and try to sell OP on IB while denigrating AP. If OP looks into this and concludes that the IB Diploma program looks like a great fit for her kids, I really doubt anyone at the nearby AP schools would extend anything other than congratulations.

As for the suggestion that Madison/McLean/Langley look down on Marshall because of its greater diversity, that's hogwash. Compared to the typical FCPS high school in 2017, Marshall's student body is affluent, and I've seen any number of posts on DCUM over the years from Pimmit Hills (feeds into Marshall) posters that were highly condescending towards Falls Church and Stuart neighborhoods.

I have two kids there and I think it is the greatest!! We think very highly of Jeff Litz and the administration, counselors and teachers - first rate! Don't be concerned with comparisons or the judgements of ignorant trolls. It just reflects badly on them if they can't make the effort to learn about how a great school works and be proud of one of the best schools in the County.

A PROUD STATESMAN!

Anonymous wrote:It amazes me how the Madison/McLean/Langley folks feel the need to bash Marshall at every opportunity. Not sure why they feel so threatened. The fact that Marshall is a also good school with lots to offer, should have no bearing on them.

I have worked at Marshall for 16 years and it's been like this since I started. Over the past several years, the reputation of Marshall has improved among most people due to the successful IB program, Academy, DECA success, sports teams, music program, etc, but it still does not seem to be able to shake the reputation that it had 20 years ago compared to these other schools.

Real Data - from Budget Questions http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/goto?#

73 CD# ES-06 Question # 29
FY 2018
Response to Questions of the FY 2018 Budget
School Board Member Requesting Information: Elizabeth Schultz
Answer Prepared By: Sloan J. Presidio
Date Prepared: March 9, 2017
Question:
How much does FCPS pay for the IB registration fee per student on top of the IB exam fee per student?
Response:
Full IB Diploma candidates pay a one-time registration fee of $168 that covers exams taken during students’ junior and senior year.
IB Course students (anyone not pursing the full IB Diploma) pay a registration fee of $168 for each year of exams (junior and/or senior year).
For FY 2017, FCPS paid 3,266 registration fees at $168 each for a total of $548,688 in registration fees.

FY 2018
Response to Questions of the FY 2018 Budget
School Board Member Requesting Information: Tom Wilson
Answer Prepared By: Jane Lipp
Date Prepared: March 9, 2017
Question:
How often do students pupil place into IB and AP schools for those programs?
Response:
In FY 2016, a total of 1,018 student transfers were approved enabling students to participate in an Advanced Placement (AP) or International Baccalaureate (IB) program at a non-base school. There were 474 transfers approved for AP students and 544 transfers approved for IB students.

Anonymous wrote:It amazes me how the Madison/McLean/Langley folks feel the need to bash Marshall at every opportunity. Not sure why they feel so threatened. The fact that Marshall is a also good school with lots to offer, should have no bearing on them.

Agree. It will only help their houses if the Tysons area is successful.