Anonymous
Post 02/22/2017 09:25     Subject: Re:Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge
Anonymous wrote:
No. The opposite of sad. We live in a country where we are not required to profess anything. We need not say Heil Hitler, we need not sign oaths of loyalty, we need not pledge allegiance to anything.


You don't get it. The "sad" part is that they do not WANT to say it. That is very sad that they do not have allegiance to our country.


Standing and reciting something is proof of nothing aside from the ability to stand and recite something. It has nothing to do with allegiance to our country.

The people you've seen protesting since Donald Trump's election? THAT'S allegiance to our country. That is demonstrating a love for our country and a willingness to fight against threats, foreign and domestic. THAT'S how you do it, not standing up in a classroom day after day saying a few words so often that they become virtually meaningless.
Anonymous
Post 02/22/2017 09:17     Subject: Re:Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No one should be required to say it, not even students.


No one is required to say it or to stand.


I taught back in the day. Jehovah's Witnesses do not say the pledge. The kids were required to be respectful of the other kids during the pledge--or could wait in the hall.

The sad part about this discussion is that people on here seem to think there is something wrong with saying it.


Sad!


Yes, it is sad that some people think that Americans should be compelled to stand and recite a pledge.
Anonymous
Post 02/22/2017 09:11     Subject: Re:Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge
Anonymous wrote:
No. The opposite of sad. We live in a country where we are not required to profess anything. We need not say Heil Hitler, we need not sign oaths of loyalty, we need not pledge allegiance to anything.


You don't get it. The "sad" part is that they do not WANT to say it. That is very sad that they do not have allegiance to our country.


Do you think the only way to show one has allegiance is to recite the pledge? Do you do so daily, then? If not, you must not have allegiance to our country.
Anonymous
Post 02/22/2017 09:06     Subject: Re:Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge
No. The opposite of sad. We live in a country where we are not required to profess anything. We need not say Heil Hitler, we need not sign oaths of loyalty, we need not pledge allegiance to anything.


You don't get it. The "sad" part is that they do not WANT to say it. That is very sad that they do not have allegiance to our country.
Anonymous
Post 02/22/2017 08:48     Subject: Re:Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No one should be required to say it, not even students.


No one is required to say it or to stand.


I taught back in the day. Jehovah's Witnesses do not say the pledge. The kids were required to be respectful of the other kids during the pledge--or could wait in the hall.

The sad part about this discussion is that people on here seem to think there is something wrong with saying it.


Sad!


No. The opposite of sad. We live in a country where we are not required to profess anything. We need not say Heil Hitler, we need not sign oaths of loyalty, we need not pledge allegiance to anything.

Anonymous
Post 02/22/2017 08:45     Subject: Re:Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge
Op is a joke. Wouldn't have the respect of anyone. Don't take the bait people!
Anonymous
Post 02/22/2017 06:06     Subject: Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:This is the best thread ever. British teachers secretly undermining American youth so the kids in Ye Olde England receive superior educations.

It's like the Manchurian Candidate, but with the PSAT.




It would be hilarious if we didn't keep getting those danged statistics showing how U.S. kids are falling behind other countries.....


And you think we're falling behind because teachers don't say the pledge? Because our teachers are less loyal to our country than teachers in other countries are to their countries?
Anonymous
Post 02/22/2017 01:41     Subject: Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:As an elementary teacher, I say it with my students, even though I'm not totally comfortable with pledging my allegiance. I dont like to say the words Under God but it is obvious if I suddenly stop. I think the whole thing is somewhat absurd. I would rather say a pledge to being kind to one another.


That would be far more meaningful.


+1
Anonymous
Post 02/22/2017 00:22     Subject: Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:There is no requirement to say the pledge or even support this country to remain a full and protected citizen. We are not required to participate (vote) in the governing of it either. The opinions of ignorant people who think that their notion of what others should do SO FAR does not supersede what the constitution protects from being imposed on others. I say the pledge when I am somewhere it is said but because I love my country and the freedoms allowed I do not judge individual choice or feel that the flag wearing, hand on heart, proudly allegiance maker is more a part of this country than my fellow citizens who no neither or even go so far as to turn away from the flag (or 'take a knee'): we are a great country because all of this


You don't have to like kids. Heck, you can really, really dislike kids. But that would probably make teaching out of the question for you.

If your goal is to help educate our future U.S. citizens I would hope that you at least like our country and that you aren't secretly hoping that Switzerland kicks our school children's academic azz.


But their job is math and reading, not political indoctrination. You are really delusional.


The bottom line is that a teacher vested in the well being of America is going to put more effort into teaching young American children than a English citizen vested in the well being of England. I suppose you will need a multi million dollar study to prove that though .


PP, you seem to be carefully avoiding the constitutional issues involved. Does the Constitution not matter to you?


The Constitution applies to U.S. citizens. Of course it matters.


Logic or information is not a strong suit for your ilk, is it. The Constitution offers the same protections when it comes to this issue to citizens and non-citizens alike. Please just go back into the hole you came out of.


Actually, I don't think that non-citizens get the exact same protections as U.S. citizens....I'm not well versed on Constitutional law (not sure why I would be, I'm not a Constitutional law attorney).



Then why are you making uneducated comments? Yes, everyone in 'murka is afforded same First Amendment protections. Free speech is not only for citizens. Ever consider that half of that classroom could be citizens of some other nation? I live in DC and my son's classroom is probably 50% non-American (diplomats mostly). Good luck requiring them to say the pledge. But even my American kid is not required and will never be. I urge you to read, study, inform yourself before making inflammatory, stupid statements.


Never said that all students should be required to say the pledge. I really don't care what your child's classroom make up is - it doesn't make your opinion any more valid than anyone else's. And if you think that only Constitutional law attorneys are "allowed" to have an opinion as to what goes on our children's schools - oh well, you are dead wrong on that.


It does matter that you are making statements affirming something you know absolutely nothing about. So, no, you don't have to be a constitutional scholar, but you at least should know the basis if you are going to be arguing about it.


Well, call me an idiot. But the Constitution was originally intended to protect the freedom of U.S. citizens. If we have somehow managed to interpret it in ways that are contrary to the well being of this country and it's lawful citizens it is time to revisit those interpretations. Something is out of whack.



No, you just made that up. Just because because you want it to be so does not make it so. Have you even read the Constitution?
Anonymous
Post 02/22/2017 00:00     Subject: Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge
Anonymous wrote:As an elementary teacher, I say it with my students, even though I'm not totally comfortable with pledging my allegiance. I dont like to say the words Under God but it is obvious if I suddenly stop. I think the whole thing is somewhat absurd. I would rather say a pledge to being kind to one another.


That would be far more meaningful.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2017 22:18     Subject: Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge
I am a middle school teacher and an atheist. My school says the pledge every morning. I stand and recite it and omit "under god" about 60% of the time because I don't think it should be in there. Sometimes I just say it because I know kids pay attention and I don't want it to become " a thing."

I've also taught in schools where the admin made it very clear that students "had" to stand and even say the pledge. I do not enforce either now in my room, although it appears all students to choose to participate. I think it is a personal decision. If students were being disrespectful during the pledge, I would speak to them about it, but otherwise, I don't think any element should be forced.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2017 21:49     Subject: Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If the children are required to say it, the teacher should say it as well. That's just basic respect. This idea that "I don't have to follow rules if I don't agree with them" is infecting our culture. My family members served in the military. They didn't agree with many of the rules, but you can't have everyone making it up as they go along. Following rules is what makes us civilized. The teacher is entitled to free speech, but not at school where the rules require saying the pledge, unless you've taken a (real) religious exemption.


ITA. I don't think that the Pledge of Allegiance is even religious. If someone doesn't want to say "under God" then they don't have to say those two words.





It is religious as long at "under God" is in the pledge regardless if someone doesn't say those two words- they are still in the pledge.


I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America (not religious)

and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation (not religious)

under God (the only religious words - don't say them if you don't want to)

indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. (not religious)


Teaching our public school kids in this country is a privilege, not a right. And, yes, if you are going to be teaching in a United States school then you should absolutely be a loyal American whose allegiance is to the United States of America and who believes in liberty and justice for all citizens in this country.

I really don't want someone with an allegiance to England (or wherever else) teaching my kids while secretly hoping that the kids in "their" country learn more than mine do. That would be a pretty big conflict of interest.


News flash- This is the United States of America, not North Korea. We can have teachers from anywhere in the world and whether or not they want to say the pledge is completely voluntary. Are you truly this ignorant of our history? Lots of people died for our freedom so you may want to spent some time learning it.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2017 21:11     Subject: Re:Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:No one should be required to say it, not even students.


No one is required to say it or to stand.


I taught back in the day. Jehovah's Witnesses do not say the pledge. The kids were required to be respectful of the other kids during the pledge--or could wait in the hall.

The sad part about this discussion is that people on here seem to think there is something wrong with saying it.


Sad!
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2017 20:44     Subject: Re:Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge
I am a middle school teacher at a Title I school that has a high percentage of students who are first or second generation immigrants. I definitely say the pledge with my students and they, in fact, will prod their classmates who don't stand up or act respectful.
Anonymous
Post 02/21/2017 19:56     Subject: Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge
As an elementary teacher, I say it with my students, even though I'm not totally comfortable with pledging my allegiance. I dont like to say the words Under God but it is obvious if I suddenly stop. I think the whole thing is somewhat absurd. I would rather say a pledge to being kind to one another.