For me, Utah senators suggesting simple economics for not supporting equal gender pay in 2017.

I agree, men should be paid less, volunteer more and let the women run the board rooms. Poor guys have had the shaft for far too long! Pro men's rights!

Anonymous wrote:i have not met many people IRL who are angry or resentful about me being a SAHM. It is only on the DCUM, and frankly who cares?

I am a SAHM with my own money, school going high achieving kids, high earner DH, great marriage and lots of help at home. I have been able to outsource most household chores and I spend my time on volunteering on causes I believe in.

Obviously, I am very lucky. I have no regrets about my life and would not want to change a thing. People who are unhappy about my situation are actually those who are unhappy about their own situation. I get that!

This. People who are happy and secure with their own life choices aren't looking down on mine.

Anonymous wrote:i have not met many people IRL who are angry or resentful about me being a SAHM. It is only on the DCUM, and frankly who cares?

I am a SAHM with my own money, school going high achieving kids, high earner DH, great marriage and lots of help at home. I have been able to outsource most household chores and I spend my time on volunteering on causes I believe in.

Obviously, I am very lucky. I have no regrets about my life and would not want to change a thing. People who are unhappy about my situation are actually those who are unhappy about their own situation. I get that!

And you always are on DcUM posting these facts about yourself, I mean every single SAH thread on DcUM I've opened and I hardly read all of them, almost as if you had something to prove.

i have not met many people IRL who are angry or resentful about me being a SAHM. It is only on the DCUM, and frankly who cares?

I am a SAHM with my own money, school going high achieving kids, high earner DH, great marriage and lots of help at home. I have been able to outsource most household chores and I spend my time on volunteering on causes I believe in.

Obviously, I am very lucky. I have no regrets about my life and would not want to change a thing. People who are unhappy about my situation are actually those who are unhappy about their own situation. I get that!

Anonymous wrote:

A very small segment of the population is wealthy enough to sit down and discuss one parent staying at home with the kids and still be able to pay the bills, let alone save for retirement, save for college, etc. They seem to be overly represented on this board and very defensive.

That's funny. The WOHMs are the ones hurling insults. Talk about defensive.

No, it's not funny. A few people on both sides do it. Get your head out yo butt.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will give you my thoughts.

a. If I see a rich SAHM with her Lululemons and Barre classes, driving around in her BMW I get annoyed because of jealousy. She must have married well enough to have to not worry about earning a living and enjoying a plush life. Must be nice.

b. Mostly what is disturbing to me is usually these SAHM types are very well educated and come from well off families to begin with. They grew up supporting women's rights and access to equal opportunities. They also tend to be tiger moms and fight to get their daighters into the best private schools and colleges and discuss plans to have their daughters become scientists and diplomats...

They themselves could have had fantastic careers. It just seems hypocritical, lazy and...fake.

c. The middle class SAHMs do not bother me. They were probably not very ambitious or well educated to begin with.

Many, many, many inaccurate assumptions here.

Except is 100% correct.

Not at all actually. At least, I don't fit any of those, and I don't know anyone who does. So maybe you live somewhere else.

+1

May be fictional SAHMs in PP's mind.

Anonymous wrote:Q for the working moms seeking "balance": does it bother you when more driven, ambitious women tell you to suck it up and lean in? Because there are a lot of people at the top who only respect others who are willing to devote their lives to working straight out, balls to the wall, no other priorities. My boss was one such. She looks down on you the way you look down on me (SAHM).

Does that bother you? You're not "contributing" in the way she respects.

I don't give a hoot what women like that think.

A very small segment of the population is wealthy enough to sit down and discuss one parent staying at home with the kids and still be able to pay the bills, let alone save for retirement, save for college, etc. They seem to be overly represented on this board and very defensive.

That's funny. The WOHMs are the ones hurling insults. Talk about defensive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will give you my thoughts.

a. If I see a rich SAHM with her Lululemons and Barre classes, driving around in her BMW I get annoyed because of jealousy. She must have married well enough to have to not worry about earning a living and enjoying a plush life. Must be nice.

b. Mostly what is disturbing to me is usually these SAHM types are very well educated and come from well off families to begin with. They grew up supporting women's rights and access to equal opportunities. They also tend to be tiger moms and fight to get their daighters into the best private schools and colleges and discuss plans to have their daughters become scientists and diplomats...

They themselves could have had fantastic careers. It just seems hypocritical, lazy and...fake.

c. The middle class SAHMs do not bother me. They were probably not very ambitious or well educated to begin with.

Many, many, many inaccurate assumptions here.

Except is 100% correct.

Not at all actually. At least, I don't fit any of those, and I don't know anyone who does. So maybe you live somewhere else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Q for the working moms seeking "balance": does it bother you when more driven, ambitious women tell you to suck it up and lean in? Because there are a lot of people at the top who only respect others who are willing to devote their lives to working straight out, balls to the wall, no other priorities. My boss was one such. She looks down on you the way you look down on me (SAHM).

Does that bother you? You're not "contributing" in the way she respects.

I'm one of those middle of the pack working moms and sure I experience that, definitely. Some of these ladies rule me out as a social contact because I am unlike them, or of no use to them in networking. They don't ask, but I am achieving my financial goals and preserving my time for my other priorities. Some of them have even told me so straight out and expect me to receive that information humbly. Lol.

Np. You get the irony here right? If you don't like to be treated this way, perhaps you shouldn't do it to others.

I'm PP, and you are making a false assumption. I don't mistreat SAHMs, or achievers either. I would consider it disrespectful and none of my business to judge the life choices of other women, because we women have a very hard set of choices to make and there are sacrifices to every path, serious sacrifices. But that you assume I judge SAHMs and am in need of correction by you, noted.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel a lot of ambivalence towards SAH moms, because it's always SAH moms and not SAH parents. It's totally fine if one parent wants to step back from their career and focus on the family (and is often very good for the family!), but there is still a lot of social pressure for women to step into that role that men to not receive. When I got married in my mid 20s, I heard questions about whether I was going to step back when we had kids, whether I was going to take a lower prestige/lower pressure job so my husband could focus on his career and I could the raise kids, etc. Why didn't anyone ask my husband whether he was going to step back his career ambitions to start a family years before kids were even in the picture?

Until it's seen as an equally acceptable/normal path for men (and men decide to SAH in equal numbers), it will always be a choice that is colored by gender politics. Even if it's the best choice for your family, it still is a choice that was influenced by societal norms that women have been trying to crack for decades.

And you think anything else isn't? Come on. You sound really naive here. We are all historical actors. No one is operating completely free of our time period's mores and values.

And yet plenty of people choose to. Even more elect to not regress back into the mores and values that our predecessors fought so hard to break us free of.

This is so ridiculous. I should make MY life miserable because a bunch of women were miserable back in 1960? No f***ing way. You're out of your mind if you think I should let that influence how I live my ONE life.

+ 1

The fact is, we're all free to choose now. So you choose for yourself and I'll choose for myself. Live and let live. I'm happy with my choices and I'm not putting you down. So why do you feel the right to do that to me?

If only that were true, but it is not. Most women do not have the luxury to choose whether to stay home or to work. Most women work to pay bills. Some women stay home because of a SN child who might otherwise want to work. And, although some of you may not understand this, some of us work because we found a career that we love.

Frankly, I don't care if you stay at home with your kids. Good for you if it works for your family. I'll refrain from judging you if you refrain from judging me.

A very small segment of the population is wealthy enough to sit down and discuss one parent staying at home with the kids and still be able to pay the bills, let alone save for retirement, save for college, etc. They seem to be overly represented on this board and very defensive.

Okay, this is perhaps my bias but I think kids under the age of 5 are no walk in the park and if you are staying at home with 3 plus kids close in age that can be beyond a full time job. I assume it is financial and/or logistics and I can see why someone walks away from years of study to stay at home I'm hellava impressed when I see a woman balance a career with four or more children. And yes, that is a commentary on society that we don't assume a guy with a high powered career and four children is doing much of the child rearing.

Now, I'm jealous of the SAHM with young kids and a nanny and SAHM with one or two school age children. I know that would be way less stressful than some of the bs I deal with day in and day out. I wouldn't say I am angry or resentful. It's like seeing someone with designer shoes - part of me wishes that could be me and part of me realizes I never prioritized either having a situation where I could buy designer shoes or if I have the money I didn't want to spend it on designer shoes. With kids, I realize they don't appreciate you when they are kids no matter what you do so don't stay at home or WOH for their appreciation- you do it for yourself and what works for your marriage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel a lot of ambivalence towards SAH moms, because it's always SAH moms and not SAH parents. It's totally fine if one parent wants to step back from their career and focus on the family (and is often very good for the family!), but there is still a lot of social pressure for women to step into that role that men to not receive. When I got married in my mid 20s, I heard questions about whether I was going to step back when we had kids, whether I was going to take a lower prestige/lower pressure job so my husband could focus on his career and I could the raise kids, etc. Why didn't anyone ask my husband whether he was going to step back his career ambitions to start a family years before kids were even in the picture?

Until it's seen as an equally acceptable/normal path for men (and men decide to SAH in equal numbers), it will always be a choice that is colored by gender politics. Even if it's the best choice for your family, it still is a choice that was influenced by societal norms that women have been trying to crack for decades.

And you think anything else isn't? Come on. You sound really naive here. We are all historical actors. No one is operating completely free of our time period's mores and values.

And yet plenty of people choose to. Even more elect to not regress back into the mores and values that our predecessors fought so hard to break us free of.

This is so ridiculous. I should make MY life miserable because a bunch of women were miserable back in 1960? No f***ing way. You're out of your mind if you think I should let that influence how I live my ONE life.

+ 1

The fact is, we're all free to choose now. So you choose for yourself and I'll choose for myself. Live and let live. I'm happy with my choices and I'm not putting you down. So why do you feel the right to do that to me?

I'm not putting you down. I'm just saying you are buying into societal forces rather than fighting them. It's ok if you don't want to be that political in your personal life, or if it's not a priority to you, or if other circumstances make other more equitable arrangements not the best choice for your individual family. But it signals your values to your children, just as other choices you make do. And you have to be ok with that. It doesn't mean you are a bad person. It just means that you don't walk the walk on this part of your life if you care about women and men having equal roles in society. And I'm sure some of you don't care.

We all make choices on what values we compromise on. It's ok if this is your compromise.

You're so condescending, yet still so wrong. By working outside the home and unnecessarily reducing the amount of time you spend with your children, you're buying into "societal forces" as much as anyone else; the only difference is that you think you're in the right because you're following the more socially-accepted path.

And here it is...the bullshit of the wealthy SAHM...putting down working moms for not "spending time with their children". And that is the real reason that WOH moms get sick of listening to SAHMs. Get your head out of your 1950s ass.

NP. You're really reaching if that's what you see in her post. And the fact is, there is a finite amount of time in the day. My husband spends 11 hours every work day outside of the house. That means he only has 13 left at home, 10 of which are spent with the children asleep. That is just reality and to deny it us pointless p. It shouldn't bother you if that is pointed out. It doesn't bother me if people say "you don't work for money" because I don't.

Really reaching? She said "...by working outside the home and unnecessarily reducing the amount of time you spend with your children..." No reaching required. Right there in black and white.

Women work for many reasons. None of them are *unnecessarily* reducing the amount of time they spend with their children. As soon as you make a statement like that, you indicate you have nothing of use to anyone to add to the conversation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will give you my thoughts.

a. If I see a rich SAHM with her Lululemons and Barre classes, driving around in her BMW I get annoyed because of jealousy. She must have married well enough to have to not worry about earning a living and enjoying a plush life. Must be nice.

b. Mostly what is disturbing to me is usually these SAHM types are very well educated and come from well off families to begin with. They grew up supporting women's rights and access to equal opportunities. They also tend to be tiger moms and fight to get their daighters into the best private schools and colleges and discuss plans to have their daughters become scientists and diplomats...

They themselves could have had fantastic careers. It just seems hypocritical, lazy and...fake.

c. The middle class SAHMs do not bother me. They were probably not very ambitious or well educated to begin with.

Many, many, many inaccurate assumptions here.

Except is 100% correct.

Anonymous wrote:I will give you my thoughts.

a. If I see a rich SAHM with her Lululemons and Barre classes, driving around in her BMW I get annoyed because of jealousy. She must have married well enough to have to not worry about earning a living and enjoying a plush life. Must be nice.

b. Mostly what is disturbing to me is usually these SAHM types are very well educated and come from well off families to begin with. They grew up supporting women's rights and access to equal opportunities. They also tend to be tiger moms and fight to get their daighters into the best private schools and colleges and discuss plans to have their daughters become scientists and diplomats...

They themselves could have had fantastic careers. It just seems hypocritical, lazy and...fake.

c. The middle class SAHMs do not bother me. They were probably not very ambitious or well educated to begin with.

Many, many, many inaccurate assumptions here.