Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why shouldn't religious beliefs be open to denigration if they're illogical? The Bible is illogical. It's contradictory. Why get upset pointing that out?

I don't think anyone gives a rat's behind if you point out that your opinion is that it's illogical and contradictory. Just like you probably wouldn't care if I pointed out that I think you have poor social skills. It's an opinion, after all. To each their own.

Anonymous wrote:Why shouldn't religious beliefs be open to denigration if they're illogical? The Bible is illogical. It's contradictory. Why get upset pointing that out?

Anonymous wrote:Why shouldn't religious beliefs be open to denigration if they're illogical? The Bible is illogical. It's contradictory. Why get upset pointing that out?

Anonymous wrote:Why shouldn't religious beliefs be open to denigration if they're illogical? The Bible is illogical. It's contradictory. Why get upset pointing that out?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ignoring the BS of the last however many pages...

I think that spirituality, like a lot of other stuff, is hugely influenced by what a person experiences related to it in childhood. Not for everyone, and not the same way, but in general, I think that if you are raised in a particular spiritual tradition, the easiest path is staying within it. You have a model for how to bring children into it, how to answer questions about faith, etc. as well as a community with norms that are familiar. I think people debating faith often gloss over the social importance of church attendance in many communities when discussing people's spiritual behavior.

I was not raised in any particular tradition. We didn't go to church at all as a kid, and while my mom is a practicing Christian now, she has made it very clear that there's no pressure on any family member to participate with her. Her husband (my stepdad) isn't a Christian, and I've been t church with her maybe 3x in 10 years. I find church peaceful and meditative, but being there doesn't feel like a religious experience for me and it's not my community. I didn't consider what church to join when I moved and my husband and I were married in a civil ceremony, not a religious one.

I don't think it's about conformity or nonconformity for people who aren't ostentatious about their faith (and I'm including militant atheists in that category - I suppose if asked to pick from a list. I'd pick atheist over other options because I don't believe in God but it's not a core part of my identity). I think the people who really have an axe to grind about the existence or nonexistence of a supreme being are all conformist in their own ways. Of the atheists I've met who fit that description, most of them have had some scarring experience with religion, whether it be growing up in a restrictive religious home or some other trauma that caused them to lose faith. The person I know who was most militantly atheist lost her very Catholic mother when she was about 12 and as a result of that experience, she believes that God cannot exist.

pp - you mention "militant" a couple of times when describing a certain type of atheist. Can you describe some characteristics a militant atheist would have? I'm also curious about characteristics a religious believer would have who approaches belief similar to the way that a militant atheist approaches non-belief.

17:19 here, not pp. I use militant to describe atheists that can't let things lie. Similar to a super political aunt or uncle when you're nervous about seeing them at the holidays because you know they're going to starthe a fight with someone.

A person who isn't content just knowing themselves, they feel compelled to tell everyone else they are wrong as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"But I have to admit that much more than this poster's craziness, I am troubled by the silence of the posters I was discussing this with yesterday calling on me to criticize my fellow atheists (which I did multiple times when I thought they were out of line) and yet virtually no one has tried to get this looney tunes under control. What is that?"

"craziness," "looney tunes"--why don't you learn how to think? What's with the constant resort to silly name calling?

You are unbelievably aggressive, rude, and condescending gaslighter.

You also picked probably the most reasonable and nicest atheist to argue with which is really peculiar but I'm also not a pushover. You are hostile, I won't pretend you're not just to be polite.

+1. I'm a theist who's trying to rein in the more obnoxious theists here (I've been at lunch so I missed this most recent mess). I'm having a hard time figuring out who's who. But I think you're arguing with the most obnoxious atheist here. If we could vote someone off the forum, it would me that atheist before even the rude evangelical. At least the rude evangelical is a straight shooter. This atheist is so very twisty and aggressive.

PS this whole thread is an argument for usernames.

PPS. I think nobody else has weighed in because nobody else can figure out what's going on. Is this last page two atheists arguing?

I'm not convinced these trolls are actually atheists. They seem to just want to argue and be mean to whomever is engaging them. They are arguing with me about whether or not atheism even makes sense. They're just contrary.

Isn't that what the OP of the other thread had suggested? Hilarious, they've proved his point. Wow.

That op suggested all atheists are contrary. I'm suggesting all trolls are contrary. While there is most certainly an overlap in populations, I think every population has trolls frankly, it did not prove that oops point

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"But I have to admit that much more than this poster's craziness, I am troubled by the silence of the posters I was discussing this with yesterday calling on me to criticize my fellow atheists (which I did multiple times when I thought they were out of line) and yet virtually no one has tried to get this looney tunes under control. What is that?"

"craziness," "looney tunes"--why don't you learn how to think? What's with the constant resort to silly name calling?

You are unbelievably aggressive, rude, and condescending gaslighter.

You also picked probably the most reasonable and nicest atheist to argue with which is really peculiar but I'm also not a pushover. You are hostile, I won't pretend you're not just to be polite.

+1. I'm a theist who's trying to rein in the more obnoxious theists here (I've been at lunch so I missed this most recent mess). I'm having a hard time figuring out who's who. But I think you're arguing with the most obnoxious atheist here. If we could vote someone off the forum, it would me that atheist before even the rude evangelical. At least the rude evangelical is a straight shooter. This atheist is so very twisty and aggressive.

PS this whole thread is an argument for usernames.

PPS. I think nobody else has weighed in because nobody else can figure out what's going on. Is this last page two atheists arguing?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ignoring the BS of the last however many pages...

I think that spirituality, like a lot of other stuff, is hugely influenced by what a person experiences related to it in childhood. Not for everyone, and not the same way, but in general, I think that if you are raised in a particular spiritual tradition, the easiest path is staying within it. You have a model for how to bring children into it, how to answer questions about faith, etc. as well as a community with norms that are familiar. I think people debating faith often gloss over the social importance of church attendance in many communities when discussing people's spiritual behavior.

I was not raised in any particular tradition. We didn't go to church at all as a kid, and while my mom is a practicing Christian now, she has made it very clear that there's no pressure on any family member to participate with her. Her husband (my stepdad) isn't a Christian, and I've been t church with her maybe 3x in 10 years. I find church peaceful and meditative, but being there doesn't feel like a religious experience for me and it's not my community. I didn't consider what church to join when I moved and my husband and I were married in a civil ceremony, not a religious one.

I don't think it's about conformity or nonconformity for people who aren't ostentatious about their faith (and I'm including militant atheists in that category - I suppose if asked to pick from a list. I'd pick atheist over other options because I don't believe in God but it's not a core part of my identity). I think the people who really have an axe to grind about the existence or nonexistence of a supreme being are all conformist in their own ways. Of the atheists I've met who fit that description, most of them have had some scarring experience with religion, whether it be growing up in a restrictive religious home or some other trauma that caused them to lose faith. The person I know who was most militantly atheist lost her very Catholic mother when she was about 12 and as a result of that experience, she believes that God cannot exist.

pp - you mention "militant" a couple of times when describing a certain type of atheist. Can you describe some characteristics a militant atheist would have? I'm also curious about characteristics a religious believer would have who approaches belief similar to the way that a militant atheist approaches non-belief.

Anonymous wrote:Ignoring the BS of the last however many pages...

I think that spirituality, like a lot of other stuff, is hugely influenced by what a person experiences related to it in childhood. Not for everyone, and not the same way, but in general, I think that if you are raised in a particular spiritual tradition, the easiest path is staying within it. You have a model for how to bring children into it, how to answer questions about faith, etc. as well as a community with norms that are familiar. I think people debating faith often gloss over the social importance of church attendance in many communities when discussing people's spiritual behavior.

I was not raised in any particular tradition. We didn't go to church at all as a kid, and while my mom is a practicing Christian now, she has made it very clear that there's no pressure on any family member to participate with her. Her husband (my stepdad) isn't a Christian, and I've been t church with her maybe 3x in 10 years. I find church peaceful and meditative, but being there doesn't feel like a religious experience for me and it's not my community. I didn't consider what church to join when I moved and my husband and I were married in a civil ceremony, not a religious one.

I don't think it's about conformity or nonconformity for people who aren't ostentatious about their faith (and I'm including militant atheists in that category - I suppose if asked to pick from a list. I'd pick atheist over other options because I don't believe in God but it's not a core part of my identity). I think the people who really have an axe to grind about the existence or nonexistence of a supreme being are all conformist in their own ways. Of the atheists I've met who fit that description, most of them have had some scarring experience with religion, whether it be growing up in a restrictive religious home or some other trauma that caused them to lose faith. The person I know who was most militantly atheist lost her very Catholic mother when she was about 12 and as a result of that experience, she believes that God cannot exist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"But I have to admit that much more than this poster's craziness, I am troubled by the silence of the posters I was discussing this with yesterday calling on me to criticize my fellow atheists (which I did multiple times when I thought they were out of line) and yet virtually no one has tried to get this looney tunes under control. What is that?"

"craziness," "looney tunes"--why don't you learn how to think? What's with the constant resort to silly name calling?

You are unbelievably aggressive, rude, and condescending gaslighter.

You also picked probably the most reasonable and nicest atheist to argue with which is really peculiar but I'm also not a pushover. You are hostile, I won't pretend you're not just to be polite.

+1. I'm a theist who's trying to rein in the more obnoxious theists here (I've been at lunch so I missed this most recent mess). I'm having a hard time figuring out who's who. But I think you're arguing with the most obnoxious atheist here. If we could vote someone off the forum, it would me that atheist before even the rude evangelical. At least the rude evangelical is a straight shooter. This atheist is so very twisty and aggressive.

PS this whole thread is an argument for usernames.

PPS. I think nobody else has weighed in because nobody else can figure out what's going on. Is this last page two atheists arguing?

I'm not convinced these trolls are actually atheists. They seem to just want to argue and be mean to whomever is engaging them. They are arguing with me about whether or not atheism even makes sense. They're just contrary.

Isn't that what the OP of the other thread had suggested? Hilarious, they've proved his point. Wow.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"But I have to admit that much more than this poster's craziness, I am troubled by the silence of the posters I was discussing this with yesterday calling on me to criticize my fellow atheists (which I did multiple times when I thought they were out of line) and yet virtually no one has tried to get this looney tunes under control. What is that?"

"craziness," "looney tunes"--why don't you learn how to think? What's with the constant resort to silly name calling?

You are unbelievably aggressive, rude, and condescending gaslighter.

You also picked probably the most reasonable and nicest atheist to argue with which is really peculiar but I'm also not a pushover. You are hostile, I won't pretend you're not just to be polite.

+1. I'm a theist who's trying to rein in the more obnoxious theists here (I've been at lunch so I missed this most recent mess). I'm having a hard time figuring out who's who. But I think you're arguing with the most obnoxious atheist here. If we could vote someone off the forum, it would me that atheist before even the rude evangelical. At least the rude evangelical is a straight shooter. This atheist is so very twisty and aggressive.

PS this whole thread is an argument for usernames.

PPS. I think nobody else has weighed in because nobody else can figure out what's going on. Is this last page two atheists arguing?

I'm not convinced these trolls are actually atheists. They seem to just want to argue and be mean to whomever is engaging them. They are arguing with me about whether or not atheism even makes sense. They're just contrary.