Anonymous wrote:I've stayed home for 17 years. I worked part time a few times, but never went back full time. I wish I could have had a professional part-time job for all that time. I have a child with some serious problems, so I chose to stay home and deal with those. It was a full-time job, but I didn't enjoy it.
Now, I'm in my 50s and basically unemployable. I've applied for lots of jobs, but can't get hired because of the huge gap in my work history. I don't regret taking care of my child, who is doing well now. But I do regret that I no longer have a career, something I was good at and enjoyed. I feel like a total failure, which is irrational, but that's what not being employable feels like in your 50s.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

DH has pretty flexible hours but the amount of money I was being paid and him needing to be home at 4 or 3 when school/clubs were over was tough on him as he's in a large office where people come in late and stay late so he often had to call in for 5:00 meetings

It's usually tough on both working parents isn't it? Why does it seem the default is always that the woman takes the career hit because juggling work and family is "too hard for the man"? And when the decision is made based on husband's "better earning power", aren't we feeding a self-fulfilling prophecy?

DH here. I always looked for family friendly work and my DW and I had pretty similar careers. I wanted to be egalitarian, so we sure split drop off and pickup, despite taking lots of flak from my customers. I even considered staying home since she had a chance at a big promotion.

But now that we are older parents I see how it works, how the parent networks at schools are run by moms, mostly SAHMs, and dads are really shut out there (look up any thread about the isolation of SAHDs). But now because I focused my career on work life balance for both of us, I have few paths to boost it to a breadwinner role despite us both seeing the real value of having a parent at home and that parent being the mom.

I am not advocating that women should always be the default parent but unless you do that you can severely limit future choices.

I am a WOH who works fulltime, and I think this idea of some SAHM school cabal is so overdramatic and ridiculous. My kids' school is filled with SAHMs who do a great job volunteering and who are also welcoming of me and the work I do to pitch in (which is work I do in evenings/weekends). Some of them have become my close friends. My DH, who also volunteers, has not been remotely shut out and his efforts are also welcomed. The idea that you'd change career paths based on the idea of a SAHM school cabal seems so melodramatic.

Also, let's assume for a moment you're right and imagine a fantasy world where the parent networks at school are entirely run by exclusionary SAHMs who won't even talk to you if you are a male or WOHM. What impact does that even have in your life and on your children compared to the impact of job stability, work/life balance, health insurance, etc.? Their teachers are still their teachers. Their school is still their school. They make friends of their own accord and you can't force that no matter how many playdates you try to orchestrate.

This just seems so drama llama to me.

Its not like they refuse to talk to him at school (but they do refuse to have playdates at each others house, talk at the park, or invite to coffee after drop-off),but don't kid yourself that a SAHD or your DH volunteering is treated as an outsider as far as the social aspect of school. Your involvement helps moderate it, especially if you are especially friendly and high energy -- which if you volunteer evenings and weekends, that must be. Our school doesn't have any weekend volunteer activities, never heard of that.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/506934.page

As for the impact just read this thread: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/596930.page

Okay, let's say that's entirely true. Let's say that WOHMs and SAHDs are fully socially marginalized at school. Let's say that no SAHM will allow their child to have a playdate with the child of a WOHM or SAHD, ever. What impact does that have on your life and the lives of your children that comes anywhere close to the impact that stable financial situations, flexible jobs, health insurance etc have? What you're suggesting seems so melodramatic to me.

Also, IME there is plenty of school volunteer work that can be done weekends/evenings. Most of it is organizational in nature, or is take-home work to help the teacher. But you don't have to volunteer at all, and your kids will be fine, and if they're not fine the problems likely have very little to do with whether you volunteered in their classrooms or not.

Did you even read the 2nd thread? There was a chorus of DCUM moms telling OP that her 5th grader doesn't have friends mostly because she didn't volunteer in the classroom and cultivate friendships. Invisible take it home volunteer work for the teacher? Worthless, they said -- you need to rub elbows and build those connections. So the parents roles in kids friendships, as annoying as it is, is true and that is a significant impact on the lives of our children, as you so addressed. Schools is super scheduled now, and the kids gravitate to the kids they see outside of school.

Yes. I read it. It still doesn't address my question, which was what impact there is that comes close to the impact that family financial health and security has on the outcome of kids?

Also, why on earth would you want to be part of and in fact go out of your way to join groups of people that are teaching their kids such horrific values? If there was a SAHM cabal whose members deliberately shunned the children of WOHMs and SAHDs, why would you let your children anywhere near them? Why would you quit a job to worm your way into that crowd? It seems like you'd be teaching the worst of values.

+1 This whole line of reasoning makes no sense to me. The idea that your kids can only have friends if you network at the school seems like a crazy combination of helicoptering and rationalization.

That is EXACTLY the conclusion of this entire thread and is backed up by my own experience (I was not OP on this thread: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/596930.page). Friendships for elem kids is driven by moms, for the most part.

Helicoptering and rationalization it is. Good luck to those kids once they get to high school, let alone college.

They will be fine, because they'll have learned how to behave and be good friends to people, rather than grow up isolation and really have little exposure to social norms. The key to knowing how to make friends is knowing how to be a friend, that's the parenting lesson that thread was all about.

Anonymous wrote:Too late to weigh in on OP's original question?

No regrets. Do I wish I could do both? Yes. Do I look at my life and wish I had made a different choice? No. And I go over this occasionally when something comes up, either on social media or elsewhere. In the end, my kids are young once. I want that experience more than anything else. Not for everyone, definitely, but the right thing for me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DH has pretty flexible hours but the amount of money I was being paid and him needing to be home at 4 or 3 when school/clubs were over was tough on him as he's in a large office where people come in late and stay late so he often had to call in for 5:00 meetings

It's usually tough on both working parents isn't it? Why does it seem the default is always that the woman takes the career hit because juggling work and family is "too hard for the man"? And when the decision is made based on husband's "better earning power", aren't we feeding a self-fulfilling prophecy?

DH here. I always looked for family friendly work and my DW and I had pretty similar careers. I wanted to be egalitarian, so we sure split drop off and pickup, despite taking lots of flak from my customers. I even considered staying home since she had a chance at a big promotion.

But now that we are older parents I see how it works, how the parent networks at schools are run by moms, mostly SAHMs, and dads are really shut out there (look up any thread about the isolation of SAHDs). But now because I focused my career on work life balance for both of us, I have few paths to boost it to a breadwinner role despite us both seeing the real value of having a parent at home and that parent being the mom.

I am not advocating that women should always be the default parent but unless you do that you can severely limit future choices.

I am a WOH who works fulltime, and I think this idea of some SAHM school cabal is so overdramatic and ridiculous. My kids' school is filled with SAHMs who do a great job volunteering and who are also welcoming of me and the work I do to pitch in (which is work I do in evenings/weekends). Some of them have become my close friends. My DH, who also volunteers, has not been remotely shut out and his efforts are also welcomed. The idea that you'd change career paths based on the idea of a SAHM school cabal seems so melodramatic.

Also, let's assume for a moment you're right and imagine a fantasy world where the parent networks at school are entirely run by exclusionary SAHMs who won't even talk to you if you are a male or WOHM. What impact does that even have in your life and on your children compared to the impact of job stability, work/life balance, health insurance, etc.? Their teachers are still their teachers. Their school is still their school. They make friends of their own accord and you can't force that no matter how many playdates you try to orchestrate.

This just seems so drama llama to me.

Its not like they refuse to talk to him at school (but they do refuse to have playdates at each others house, talk at the park, or invite to coffee after drop-off),but don't kid yourself that a SAHD or your DH volunteering is treated as an outsider as far as the social aspect of school. Your involvement helps moderate it, especially if you are especially friendly and high energy -- which if you volunteer evenings and weekends, that must be. Our school doesn't have any weekend volunteer activities, never heard of that.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/506934.page

As for the impact just read this thread: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/596930.page

Okay, let's say that's entirely true. Let's say that WOHMs and SAHDs are fully socially marginalized at school. Let's say that no SAHM will allow their child to have a playdate with the child of a WOHM or SAHD, ever. What impact does that have on your life and the lives of your children that comes anywhere close to the impact that stable financial situations, flexible jobs, health insurance etc have? What you're suggesting seems so melodramatic to me.

Also, IME there is plenty of school volunteer work that can be done weekends/evenings. Most of it is organizational in nature, or is take-home work to help the teacher. But you don't have to volunteer at all, and your kids will be fine, and if they're not fine the problems likely have very little to do with whether you volunteered in their classrooms or not.

Did you even read the 2nd thread? There was a chorus of DCUM moms telling OP that her 5th grader doesn't have friends mostly because she didn't volunteer in the classroom and cultivate friendships. Invisible take it home volunteer work for the teacher? Worthless, they said -- you need to rub elbows and build those connections. So the parents roles in kids friendships, as annoying as it is, is true and that is a significant impact on the lives of our children, as you so addressed. Schools is super scheduled now, and the kids gravitate to the kids they see outside of school.

Yes. I read it. It still doesn't address my question, which was what impact there is that comes close to the impact that family financial health and security has on the outcome of kids?

Also, why on earth would you want to be part of and in fact go out of your way to join groups of people that are teaching their kids such horrific values? If there was a SAHM cabal whose members deliberately shunned the children of WOHMs and SAHDs, why would you let your children anywhere near them? Why would you quit a job to worm your way into that crowd? It seems like you'd be teaching the worst of values.

+1 This whole line of reasoning makes no sense to me. The idea that your kids can only have friends if you network at the school seems like a crazy combination of helicoptering and rationalization.

That is EXACTLY the conclusion of this entire thread and is backed up by my own experience (I was not OP on this thread: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/596930.page). Friendships for elem kids is driven by moms, for the most part.

Helicoptering and rationalization it is. Good luck to those kids once they get to high school, let alone college.

They will be fine, because they'll have learned how to behave and be good friends to people, rather than grow up isolation and really have little exposure to social norms. The key to knowing how to make friends is knowing how to be a friend, that's the parenting lesson that thread was all about.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DH has pretty flexible hours but the amount of money I was being paid and him needing to be home at 4 or 3 when school/clubs were over was tough on him as he's in a large office where people come in late and stay late so he often had to call in for 5:00 meetings

It's usually tough on both working parents isn't it? Why does it seem the default is always that the woman takes the career hit because juggling work and family is "too hard for the man"? And when the decision is made based on husband's "better earning power", aren't we feeding a self-fulfilling prophecy?

DH here. I always looked for family friendly work and my DW and I had pretty similar careers. I wanted to be egalitarian, so we sure split drop off and pickup, despite taking lots of flak from my customers. I even considered staying home since she had a chance at a big promotion.

But now that we are older parents I see how it works, how the parent networks at schools are run by moms, mostly SAHMs, and dads are really shut out there (look up any thread about the isolation of SAHDs). But now because I focused my career on work life balance for both of us, I have few paths to boost it to a breadwinner role despite us both seeing the real value of having a parent at home and that parent being the mom.

I am not advocating that women should always be the default parent but unless you do that you can severely limit future choices.

I am a WOH who works fulltime, and I think this idea of some SAHM school cabal is so overdramatic and ridiculous. My kids' school is filled with SAHMs who do a great job volunteering and who are also welcoming of me and the work I do to pitch in (which is work I do in evenings/weekends). Some of them have become my close friends. My DH, who also volunteers, has not been remotely shut out and his efforts are also welcomed. The idea that you'd change career paths based on the idea of a SAHM school cabal seems so melodramatic.

Also, let's assume for a moment you're right and imagine a fantasy world where the parent networks at school are entirely run by exclusionary SAHMs who won't even talk to you if you are a male or WOHM. What impact does that even have in your life and on your children compared to the impact of job stability, work/life balance, health insurance, etc.? Their teachers are still their teachers. Their school is still their school. They make friends of their own accord and you can't force that no matter how many playdates you try to orchestrate.

This just seems so drama llama to me.

Its not like they refuse to talk to him at school (but they do refuse to have playdates at each others house, talk at the park, or invite to coffee after drop-off),but don't kid yourself that a SAHD or your DH volunteering is treated as an outsider as far as the social aspect of school. Your involvement helps moderate it, especially if you are especially friendly and high energy -- which if you volunteer evenings and weekends, that must be. Our school doesn't have any weekend volunteer activities, never heard of that.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/506934.page

As for the impact just read this thread: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/596930.page

Okay, let's say that's entirely true. Let's say that WOHMs and SAHDs are fully socially marginalized at school. Let's say that no SAHM will allow their child to have a playdate with the child of a WOHM or SAHD, ever. What impact does that have on your life and the lives of your children that comes anywhere close to the impact that stable financial situations, flexible jobs, health insurance etc have? What you're suggesting seems so melodramatic to me.

Also, IME there is plenty of school volunteer work that can be done weekends/evenings. Most of it is organizational in nature, or is take-home work to help the teacher. But you don't have to volunteer at all, and your kids will be fine, and if they're not fine the problems likely have very little to do with whether you volunteered in their classrooms or not.

Did you even read the 2nd thread? There was a chorus of DCUM moms telling OP that her 5th grader doesn't have friends mostly because she didn't volunteer in the classroom and cultivate friendships. Invisible take it home volunteer work for the teacher? Worthless, they said -- you need to rub elbows and build those connections. So the parents roles in kids friendships, as annoying as it is, is true and that is a significant impact on the lives of our children, as you so addressed. Schools is super scheduled now, and the kids gravitate to the kids they see outside of school.

Yes. I read it. It still doesn't address my question, which was what impact there is that comes close to the impact that family financial health and security has on the outcome of kids?

Also, why on earth would you want to be part of and in fact go out of your way to join groups of people that are teaching their kids such horrific values? If there was a SAHM cabal whose members deliberately shunned the children of WOHMs and SAHDs, why would you let your children anywhere near them? Why would you quit a job to worm your way into that crowd? It seems like you'd be teaching the worst of values.

+1 This whole line of reasoning makes no sense to me. The idea that your kids can only have friends if you network at the school seems like a crazy combination of helicoptering and rationalization.

That is EXACTLY the conclusion of this entire thread and is backed up by my own experience (I was not OP on this thread: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/596930.page). Friendships for elem kids is driven by moms, for the most part.

Helicoptering and rationalization it is. Good luck to those kids once they get to high school, let alone college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DH has pretty flexible hours but the amount of money I was being paid and him needing to be home at 4 or 3 when school/clubs were over was tough on him as he's in a large office where people come in late and stay late so he often had to call in for 5:00 meetings

It's usually tough on both working parents isn't it? Why does it seem the default is always that the woman takes the career hit because juggling work and family is "too hard for the man"? And when the decision is made based on husband's "better earning power", aren't we feeding a self-fulfilling prophecy?

DH here. I always looked for family friendly work and my DW and I had pretty similar careers. I wanted to be egalitarian, so we sure split drop off and pickup, despite taking lots of flak from my customers. I even considered staying home since she had a chance at a big promotion.

But now that we are older parents I see how it works, how the parent networks at schools are run by moms, mostly SAHMs, and dads are really shut out there (look up any thread about the isolation of SAHDs). But now because I focused my career on work life balance for both of us, I have few paths to boost it to a breadwinner role despite us both seeing the real value of having a parent at home and that parent being the mom.

I am not advocating that women should always be the default parent but unless you do that you can severely limit future choices.

I am a WOH who works fulltime, and I think this idea of some SAHM school cabal is so overdramatic and ridiculous. My kids' school is filled with SAHMs who do a great job volunteering and who are also welcoming of me and the work I do to pitch in (which is work I do in evenings/weekends). Some of them have become my close friends. My DH, who also volunteers, has not been remotely shut out and his efforts are also welcomed. The idea that you'd change career paths based on the idea of a SAHM school cabal seems so melodramatic.

Also, let's assume for a moment you're right and imagine a fantasy world where the parent networks at school are entirely run by exclusionary SAHMs who won't even talk to you if you are a male or WOHM. What impact does that even have in your life and on your children compared to the impact of job stability, work/life balance, health insurance, etc.? Their teachers are still their teachers. Their school is still their school. They make friends of their own accord and you can't force that no matter how many playdates you try to orchestrate.

This just seems so drama llama to me.

Its not like they refuse to talk to him at school (but they do refuse to have playdates at each others house, talk at the park, or invite to coffee after drop-off),but don't kid yourself that a SAHD or your DH volunteering is treated as an outsider as far as the social aspect of school. Your involvement helps moderate it, especially if you are especially friendly and high energy -- which if you volunteer evenings and weekends, that must be. Our school doesn't have any weekend volunteer activities, never heard of that.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/506934.page

As for the impact just read this thread: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/596930.page

Okay, let's say that's entirely true. Let's say that WOHMs and SAHDs are fully socially marginalized at school. Let's say that no SAHM will allow their child to have a playdate with the child of a WOHM or SAHD, ever. What impact does that have on your life and the lives of your children that comes anywhere close to the impact that stable financial situations, flexible jobs, health insurance etc have? What you're suggesting seems so melodramatic to me.

Also, IME there is plenty of school volunteer work that can be done weekends/evenings. Most of it is organizational in nature, or is take-home work to help the teacher. But you don't have to volunteer at all, and your kids will be fine, and if they're not fine the problems likely have very little to do with whether you volunteered in their classrooms or not.

Did you even read the 2nd thread? There was a chorus of DCUM moms telling OP that her 5th grader doesn't have friends mostly because she didn't volunteer in the classroom and cultivate friendships. Invisible take it home volunteer work for the teacher? Worthless, they said -- you need to rub elbows and build those connections. So the parents roles in kids friendships, as annoying as it is, is true and that is a significant impact on the lives of our children, as you so addressed. Schools is super scheduled now, and the kids gravitate to the kids they see outside of school.

Yes. I read it. It still doesn't address my question, which was what impact there is that comes close to the impact that family financial health and security has on the outcome of kids?

Also, why on earth would you want to be part of and in fact go out of your way to join groups of people that are teaching their kids such horrific values? If there was a SAHM cabal whose members deliberately shunned the children of WOHMs and SAHDs, why would you let your children anywhere near them? Why would you quit a job to worm your way into that crowd? It seems like you'd be teaching the worst of values.

+1 This whole line of reasoning makes no sense to me. The idea that your kids can only have friends if you network at the school seems like a crazy combination of helicoptering and rationalization.

That is EXACTLY the conclusion of this entire thread and is backed up by my own experience (I was not OP on this thread: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/596930.page). Friendships for elem kids is driven by moms, for the most part.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DH has pretty flexible hours but the amount of money I was being paid and him needing to be home at 4 or 3 when school/clubs were over was tough on him as he's in a large office where people come in late and stay late so he often had to call in for 5:00 meetings

It's usually tough on both working parents isn't it? Why does it seem the default is always that the woman takes the career hit because juggling work and family is "too hard for the man"? And when the decision is made based on husband's "better earning power", aren't we feeding a self-fulfilling prophecy?

DH here. I always looked for family friendly work and my DW and I had pretty similar careers. I wanted to be egalitarian, so we sure split drop off and pickup, despite taking lots of flak from my customers. I even considered staying home since she had a chance at a big promotion.

But now that we are older parents I see how it works, how the parent networks at schools are run by moms, mostly SAHMs, and dads are really shut out there (look up any thread about the isolation of SAHDs). But now because I focused my career on work life balance for both of us, I have few paths to boost it to a breadwinner role despite us both seeing the real value of having a parent at home and that parent being the mom.

I am not advocating that women should always be the default parent but unless you do that you can severely limit future choices.

I am a WOH who works fulltime, and I think this idea of some SAHM school cabal is so overdramatic and ridiculous. My kids' school is filled with SAHMs who do a great job volunteering and who are also welcoming of me and the work I do to pitch in (which is work I do in evenings/weekends). Some of them have become my close friends. My DH, who also volunteers, has not been remotely shut out and his efforts are also welcomed. The idea that you'd change career paths based on the idea of a SAHM school cabal seems so melodramatic.

Also, let's assume for a moment you're right and imagine a fantasy world where the parent networks at school are entirely run by exclusionary SAHMs who won't even talk to you if you are a male or WOHM. What impact does that even have in your life and on your children compared to the impact of job stability, work/life balance, health insurance, etc.? Their teachers are still their teachers. Their school is still their school. They make friends of their own accord and you can't force that no matter how many playdates you try to orchestrate.

This just seems so drama llama to me.

Its not like they refuse to talk to him at school (but they do refuse to have playdates at each others house, talk at the park, or invite to coffee after drop-off),but don't kid yourself that a SAHD or your DH volunteering is treated as an outsider as far as the social aspect of school. Your involvement helps moderate it, especially if you are especially friendly and high energy -- which if you volunteer evenings and weekends, that must be. Our school doesn't have any weekend volunteer activities, never heard of that.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/506934.page

As for the impact just read this thread: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/596930.page

Okay, let's say that's entirely true. Let's say that WOHMs and SAHDs are fully socially marginalized at school. Let's say that no SAHM will allow their child to have a playdate with the child of a WOHM or SAHD, ever. What impact does that have on your life and the lives of your children that comes anywhere close to the impact that stable financial situations, flexible jobs, health insurance etc have? What you're suggesting seems so melodramatic to me.

Also, IME there is plenty of school volunteer work that can be done weekends/evenings. Most of it is organizational in nature, or is take-home work to help the teacher. But you don't have to volunteer at all, and your kids will be fine, and if they're not fine the problems likely have very little to do with whether you volunteered in their classrooms or not.

Did you even read the 2nd thread? There was a chorus of DCUM moms telling OP that her 5th grader doesn't have friends mostly because she didn't volunteer in the classroom and cultivate friendships. Invisible take it home volunteer work for the teacher? Worthless, they said -- you need to rub elbows and build those connections. So the parents roles in kids friendships, as annoying as it is, is true and that is a significant impact on the lives of our children, as you so addressed. Schools is super scheduled now, and the kids gravitate to the kids they see outside of school.

Yes. I read it. It still doesn't address my question, which was what impact there is that comes close to the impact that family financial health and security has on the outcome of kids?

Also, why on earth would you want to be part of and in fact go out of your way to join groups of people that are teaching their kids such horrific values? If there was a SAHM cabal whose members deliberately shunned the children of WOHMs and SAHDs, why would you let your children anywhere near them? Why would you quit a job to worm your way into that crowd? It seems like you'd be teaching the worst of values.

+1 This whole line of reasoning makes no sense to me. The idea that your kids can only have friends if you network at the school seems like a crazy combination of helicoptering and rationalization.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DH has pretty flexible hours but the amount of money I was being paid and him needing to be home at 4 or 3 when school/clubs were over was tough on him as he's in a large office where people come in late and stay late so he often had to call in for 5:00 meetings

It's usually tough on both working parents isn't it? Why does it seem the default is always that the woman takes the career hit because juggling work and family is "too hard for the man"? And when the decision is made based on husband's "better earning power", aren't we feeding a self-fulfilling prophecy?

DH here. I always looked for family friendly work and my DW and I had pretty similar careers. I wanted to be egalitarian, so we sure split drop off and pickup, despite taking lots of flak from my customers. I even considered staying home since she had a chance at a big promotion.

But now that we are older parents I see how it works, how the parent networks at schools are run by moms, mostly SAHMs, and dads are really shut out there (look up any thread about the isolation of SAHDs). But now because I focused my career on work life balance for both of us, I have few paths to boost it to a breadwinner role despite us both seeing the real value of having a parent at home and that parent being the mom.

I am not advocating that women should always be the default parent but unless you do that you can severely limit future choices.

I am a WOH who works fulltime, and I think this idea of some SAHM school cabal is so overdramatic and ridiculous. My kids' school is filled with SAHMs who do a great job volunteering and who are also welcoming of me and the work I do to pitch in (which is work I do in evenings/weekends). Some of them have become my close friends. My DH, who also volunteers, has not been remotely shut out and his efforts are also welcomed. The idea that you'd change career paths based on the idea of a SAHM school cabal seems so melodramatic.

Also, let's assume for a moment you're right and imagine a fantasy world where the parent networks at school are entirely run by exclusionary SAHMs who won't even talk to you if you are a male or WOHM. What impact does that even have in your life and on your children compared to the impact of job stability, work/life balance, health insurance, etc.? Their teachers are still their teachers. Their school is still their school. They make friends of their own accord and you can't force that no matter how many playdates you try to orchestrate.

This just seems so drama llama to me.

Its not like they refuse to talk to him at school (but they do refuse to have playdates at each others house, talk at the park, or invite to coffee after drop-off),but don't kid yourself that a SAHD or your DH volunteering is treated as an outsider as far as the social aspect of school. Your involvement helps moderate it, especially if you are especially friendly and high energy -- which if you volunteer evenings and weekends, that must be. Our school doesn't have any weekend volunteer activities, never heard of that.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/506934.page

As for the impact just read this thread: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/596930.page

Okay, let's say that's entirely true. Let's say that WOHMs and SAHDs are fully socially marginalized at school. Let's say that no SAHM will allow their child to have a playdate with the child of a WOHM or SAHD, ever. What impact does that have on your life and the lives of your children that comes anywhere close to the impact that stable financial situations, flexible jobs, health insurance etc have? What you're suggesting seems so melodramatic to me.

Also, IME there is plenty of school volunteer work that can be done weekends/evenings. Most of it is organizational in nature, or is take-home work to help the teacher. But you don't have to volunteer at all, and your kids will be fine, and if they're not fine the problems likely have very little to do with whether you volunteered in their classrooms or not.

Did you even read the 2nd thread? There was a chorus of DCUM moms telling OP that her 5th grader doesn't have friends mostly because she didn't volunteer in the classroom and cultivate friendships. Invisible take it home volunteer work for the teacher? Worthless, they said -- you need to rub elbows and build those connections. So the parents roles in kids friendships, as annoying as it is, is true and that is a significant impact on the lives of our children, as you so addressed. Schools is super scheduled now, and the kids gravitate to the kids they see outside of school.

Yes. I read it. It still doesn't address my question, which was what impact there is that comes close to the impact that family financial health and security has on the outcome of kids?

Also, why on earth would you want to be part of and in fact go out of your way to join groups of people that are teaching their kids such horrific values? If there was a SAHM cabal whose members deliberately shunned the children of WOHMs and SAHDs, why would you let your children anywhere near them? Why would you quit a job to worm your way into that crowd? It seems like you'd be teaching the worst of values.

+1 This whole line of reasoning makes no sense to me. The idea that your kids can only have friends if you network at the school seems like a crazy combination of helicoptering and rationalization.

Anonymous wrote:Not if I look at my children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DH has pretty flexible hours but the amount of money I was being paid and him needing to be home at 4 or 3 when school/clubs were over was tough on him as he's in a large office where people come in late and stay late so he often had to call in for 5:00 meetings

It's usually tough on both working parents isn't it? Why does it seem the default is always that the woman takes the career hit because juggling work and family is "too hard for the man"? And when the decision is made based on husband's "better earning power", aren't we feeding a self-fulfilling prophecy?

DH here. I always looked for family friendly work and my DW and I had pretty similar careers. I wanted to be egalitarian, so we sure split drop off and pickup, despite taking lots of flak from my customers. I even considered staying home since she had a chance at a big promotion.

But now that we are older parents I see how it works, how the parent networks at schools are run by moms, mostly SAHMs, and dads are really shut out there (look up any thread about the isolation of SAHDs). But now because I focused my career on work life balance for both of us, I have few paths to boost it to a breadwinner role despite us both seeing the real value of having a parent at home and that parent being the mom.

I am not advocating that women should always be the default parent but unless you do that you can severely limit future choices.

I am a WOH who works fulltime, and I think this idea of some SAHM school cabal is so overdramatic and ridiculous. My kids' school is filled with SAHMs who do a great job volunteering and who are also welcoming of me and the work I do to pitch in (which is work I do in evenings/weekends). Some of them have become my close friends. My DH, who also volunteers, has not been remotely shut out and his efforts are also welcomed. The idea that you'd change career paths based on the idea of a SAHM school cabal seems so melodramatic.

Also, let's assume for a moment you're right and imagine a fantasy world where the parent networks at school are entirely run by exclusionary SAHMs who won't even talk to you if you are a male or WOHM. What impact does that even have in your life and on your children compared to the impact of job stability, work/life balance, health insurance, etc.? Their teachers are still their teachers. Their school is still their school. They make friends of their own accord and you can't force that no matter how many playdates you try to orchestrate.

This just seems so drama llama to me.

Its not like they refuse to talk to him at school (but they do refuse to have playdates at each others house, talk at the park, or invite to coffee after drop-off),but don't kid yourself that a SAHD or your DH volunteering is treated as an outsider as far as the social aspect of school. Your involvement helps moderate it, especially if you are especially friendly and high energy -- which if you volunteer evenings and weekends, that must be. Our school doesn't have any weekend volunteer activities, never heard of that.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/506934.page

As for the impact just read this thread: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/596930.page

Okay, let's say that's entirely true. Let's say that WOHMs and SAHDs are fully socially marginalized at school. Let's say that no SAHM will allow their child to have a playdate with the child of a WOHM or SAHD, ever. What impact does that have on your life and the lives of your children that comes anywhere close to the impact that stable financial situations, flexible jobs, health insurance etc have? What you're suggesting seems so melodramatic to me.

Also, IME there is plenty of school volunteer work that can be done weekends/evenings. Most of it is organizational in nature, or is take-home work to help the teacher. But you don't have to volunteer at all, and your kids will be fine, and if they're not fine the problems likely have very little to do with whether you volunteered in their classrooms or not.

Did you even read the 2nd thread? There was a chorus of DCUM moms telling OP that her 5th grader doesn't have friends mostly because she didn't volunteer in the classroom and cultivate friendships. Invisible take it home volunteer work for the teacher? Worthless, they said -- you need to rub elbows and build those connections. So the parents roles in kids friendships, as annoying as it is, is true and that is a significant impact on the lives of our children, as you so addressed. Schools is super scheduled now, and the kids gravitate to the kids they see outside of school.

Yes. I read it. It still doesn't address my question, which was what impact there is that comes close to the impact that family financial health and security has on the outcome of kids?

Also, why on earth would you want to be part of and in fact go out of your way to join groups of people that are teaching their kids such horrific values? If there was a SAHM cabal whose members deliberately shunned the children of WOHMs and SAHDs, why would you let your children anywhere near them? Why would you quit a job to worm your way into that crowd? It seems like you'd be teaching the worst of values.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

DH has pretty flexible hours but the amount of money I was being paid and him needing to be home at 4 or 3 when school/clubs were over was tough on him as he's in a large office where people come in late and stay late so he often had to call in for 5:00 meetings

It's usually tough on both working parents isn't it? Why does it seem the default is always that the woman takes the career hit because juggling work and family is "too hard for the man"? And when the decision is made based on husband's "better earning power", aren't we feeding a self-fulfilling prophecy?

DH here. I always looked for family friendly work and my DW and I had pretty similar careers. I wanted to be egalitarian, so we sure split drop off and pickup, despite taking lots of flak from my customers. I even considered staying home since she had a chance at a big promotion.

But now that we are older parents I see how it works, how the parent networks at schools are run by moms, mostly SAHMs, and dads are really shut out there (look up any thread about the isolation of SAHDs). But now because I focused my career on work life balance for both of us, I have few paths to boost it to a breadwinner role despite us both seeing the real value of having a parent at home and that parent being the mom.

I am not advocating that women should always be the default parent but unless you do that you can severely limit future choices.

I am a WOH who works fulltime, and I think this idea of some SAHM school cabal is so overdramatic and ridiculous. My kids' school is filled with SAHMs who do a great job volunteering and who are also welcoming of me and the work I do to pitch in (which is work I do in evenings/weekends). Some of them have become my close friends. My DH, who also volunteers, has not been remotely shut out and his efforts are also welcomed. The idea that you'd change career paths based on the idea of a SAHM school cabal seems so melodramatic.

Also, let's assume for a moment you're right and imagine a fantasy world where the parent networks at school are entirely run by exclusionary SAHMs who won't even talk to you if you are a male or WOHM. What impact does that even have in your life and on your children compared to the impact of job stability, work/life balance, health insurance, etc.? Their teachers are still their teachers. Their school is still their school. They make friends of their own accord and you can't force that no matter how many playdates you try to orchestrate.

This just seems so drama llama to me.

Its not like they refuse to talk to him at school (but they do refuse to have playdates at each others house, talk at the park, or invite to coffee after drop-off),but don't kid yourself that a SAHD or your DH volunteering is treated as an outsider as far as the social aspect of school. Your involvement helps moderate it, especially if you are especially friendly and high energy -- which if you volunteer evenings and weekends, that must be. Our school doesn't have any weekend volunteer activities, never heard of that.

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/506934.page

As for the impact just read this thread: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/596930.page

Okay, let's say that's entirely true. Let's say that WOHMs and SAHDs are fully socially marginalized at school. Let's say that no SAHM will allow their child to have a playdate with the child of a WOHM or SAHD, ever. What impact does that have on your life and the lives of your children that comes anywhere close to the impact that stable financial situations, flexible jobs, health insurance etc have? What you're suggesting seems so melodramatic to me.

Also, IME there is plenty of school volunteer work that can be done weekends/evenings. Most of it is organizational in nature, or is take-home work to help the teacher. But you don't have to volunteer at all, and your kids will be fine, and if they're not fine the problems likely have very little to do with whether you volunteered in their classrooms or not.

Did you even read the 2nd thread? There was a chorus of DCUM moms telling OP that her 5th grader doesn't have friends mostly because she didn't volunteer in the classroom and cultivate friendships. Invisible take it home volunteer work for the teacher? Worthless, they said -- you need to rub elbows and build those connections. So the parents roles in kids friendships, as annoying as it is, is true and that is a significant impact on the lives of our children, as you so addressed. Schools is super scheduled now, and the kids gravitate to the kids they see outside of school.

Anonymous wrote:I am glad to be a SAHM but in some ways I do regret it. I imagined I would be able to do much more for my kids. There are a few things underestkmated

1) there is a lot of freaking housework. I pictured myself doing crafts and preparing healthy meals from scratch and teaching them sight words and leading playgroups. Maybr some super moms can do it all but not me. I now appreciate the entire team of individuals that worked at daycare so much more.

2) when both my husband and I worked it seemed genuinely equitable between us in terms of parenting stress. Now they are VERY attached to me which iOS sometimes hard (separation anxiety) and it also feels like I stole a littl something from their very giving and committed dad.

3) my wardrobe, hair, exercise regimen etc all suck now - was much easier to have that little piece of myself when I was a working mom.

4) I had both kids after 40 and they are exhausting. And I am starting to feel my age. I sometimes feel like maybe at my age I bit off more than I could chew by trying to stay home with hem. I am tired, my back is seriously going and I have had some cancer scares already.

Otherwise, no regrets, I love spending this time with them!!