Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You didn't back up any of your arguments with anything of value. I stated 3 things that MCPS did. You claimed all they did was redistrict. Where is your citation that real estate growth rates are lagging for Falls Grove? The RMIB program was established in 1987--the same year that the redistricting occurred. You stated that they did it afterwards. Donald, you can't win here, either.

np - No need to attack the pp just because you have a different opinion. You think RM is great, PP doesn't. Different people can have different opinions on the same topic. Grow up.

people have used facts to backup the claim that RM is a great school. What facts do naysayers use to backup their claim that RM is terrible without IB? As stated before the MS feeder JW is rated highly. Majority go to RM. So, discounting the 100 spots per class for test-in magnets from other schools (and remember that 25 additional spots go to inbound RM) the rest of the student body is made mostly up by the JW feeder students. So, if JW students are doing well, how do they magically turn out to be underachievers when they hit HS?

Anonymous wrote:

You didn't back up any of your arguments with anything of value. I stated 3 things that MCPS did. You claimed all they did was redistrict. Where is your citation that real estate growth rates are lagging for Falls Grove? The RMIB program was established in 1987--the same year that the redistricting occurred. You stated that they did it afterwards. Donald, you can't win here, either.

np - No need to attack the pp just because you have a different opinion. You think RM is great, PP doesn't. Different people can have different opinions on the same topic. Grow up.

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Anonymous wrote:To me it would depend on what would be the goal of such an effort? If it is to alleviate over crowding, I am all for it. If it is for "diversity" than forget it. I dont want my kid bussed across the county to some gang school. FWIW we are in RM cluster, not W

Which school or schools are gang schools in your opinion?

The one we moved away from, Watkins Mill. I would also include Gaithersburg, Seneca Valley, SS schools.

What a snob you are. Did you have a child who actually attended any of these schools? My children are students at one of the schools you listed. They are not afraid to go to school. There are not gang fights in the hallways. My relative's children recently graduated from Watkins Mill, where they were involved in a lot of activities and enjoyed their high school experience; their kids were not afraid to go to school, either.

There are plenty of students from good, caring families at the schools you listed, and teachers/administrators who care about their students. If you wanted to move away because you didn't want your kids to go there, fine, but don't put down a school you don't have any experience with.

Its funny as RM was not a good or nice school when I was growing up. It was one to be avoided. If they truly think RM is better, good luck to them.

RM of today is so not the RM of 20 yrs ago. It has a gs rating of 8. You might say it's the IB program but the MS feeder school JW, which doesn't have a test in magnet program, has a GS rating of 9.

More rich people move to the area so now its well regarded and yet other schools are bashed. RM has had some very serious issues and incidents. But, yes, lets just cover them all up and pretend all is good now. Not a chance I'd send my kids there.

? Because W schools are without incidences? I've read about a few, and know someone who definitely knows that many of the issues at those schools get covered up by wealth parents' money.

And to the other PP who stated it's just the IB, you totally disregarded the second sentence about JW being rated 9. But since it doesn't fit into your narrative, you just can't accept it, can you?

The RM cluster is really the god standard of turning around schools for MCPS. Prior to 1987, JW and RM were in serious trouble. There was extreme underenrollment and the student bodies of the schools were severely underperforming goals. The solution was a multipronged, but highly controversial, set of actions:

(1) Redistrict higher SES areas to JW and RM.
(2) Improve the paper performance of the school to make it more desirable (on paper at least).
(3) Develop new construction into the district targeting families with higher SES.

Redistricting was accomplished by moving Ritchie Park Elementary School from the Frost/Wootton cluster to JW/RM. The families of Ritchie Park were livid and fought this hard. Home values have been affected, but the longterm effects have been blunted. Short-term effects were clear.

Improvement of paper scores was accomplished by bringing in the IB magnet, which initially made up a large percent of the school population. Not only did this improve the paper view of the school--encouraging higher SES families to move to or remain in the district, but it may have positively affected the non-magnet population of the school with increased population and budgets for non-magnet programs, too.

Development of new construction for higher SES families was a huge success with both the Falls Grove and Rose Hill communities. Falls Grove's large houses can sell for over $1m, though there is also mixed development and more urban development. Rose Hill is not mixed, and most homes there currently market for $1m or more when they are even available.

Today, the RM and JW district is highly performing--even for the non-IB-magnet students--a complete turnaround from 30 years ago. Downtown rockville has become much more desirable, and large and expensive construction has continued there, bringing higher SES students to RM as well. Just look at the school ratings of the feeder schools to RM, of which only College Gardens has an immersion program to bring in outside-district students:

College Gardens: 9
Ritchie Park: 8
Beall: 8
Twinbrook: 4
Julius West: 9

Clearly, only Twinbrook is lagging in rating. The district is pretty good. It is the gold standard of how to improve a cluster.

Long term effects? Those that were redistricted see a continued $150K+ drop in value to their homes. I don't think that is blunted. They also moved access to the kids easily walking to Frost and Wootton (since the entire neighborhood is LITERALLY right next to Wootton) and now bus them to JW and RM. So yeah, I think they have the right to be royally pissed off. Loss of $150K in equity, loss of being able to walk to school, and sent to a shitty ass school. There are so many in those developments that go to private schools. Bullis, St E's, St Raphaels, JDS, etc... That is also a loss of $$. You think that is what should happen? You think the county should go in and redistrict nice neighborhoods in great schools to subpar schools? Put middle class families that paid a premium for homes for a certain school and gut them financially?

The Non-W schools are the forgotten ones. Those neighborhoods see their other neighborhood schools like Beverly Farms and Cold Spring with barely 70% capacity while Ritchie Park has taken on the entire Fallsgrove neighborhood and Park Potomac and they are 135% capacity with 7 portables parked outside on the blacktops they used to play on. Promised a 5th elementary school for years and years. Who knows if it will ever come. Meanwhile Beverly Farms looks like a f'ing middle school and Cold Spring has a ridiculous amount of land and will be getting a complete renovation soon.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me it would depend on what would be the goal of such an effort? If it is to alleviate over crowding, I am all for it. If it is for "diversity" than forget it. I dont want my kid bussed across the county to some gang school. FWIW we are in RM cluster, not W

Which school or schools are gang schools in your opinion?

The one we moved away from, Watkins Mill. I would also include Gaithersburg, Seneca Valley, SS schools.

What a snob you are. Did you have a child who actually attended any of these schools? My children are students at one of the schools you listed. They are not afraid to go to school. There are not gang fights in the hallways. My relative's children recently graduated from Watkins Mill, where they were involved in a lot of activities and enjoyed their high school experience; their kids were not afraid to go to school, either.

There are plenty of students from good, caring families at the schools you listed, and teachers/administrators who care about their students. If you wanted to move away because you didn't want your kids to go there, fine, but don't put down a school you don't have any experience with.

Anonymous wrote:To claim busing students won't hurt the students from high SEC schools is simply a lie. It has been studied and has been confirmed again and again that it requires some sacrifices of the richer party.

Searching "Does Segregation Still Matter? The impact of student Composition on Academic achievement in High school", you will find the well regarded and highly cited study by Russell Rumberger and Palardy. If you have no patience to read through the paper as it's scientific and data driven which can be boring to a lot of people, go directly to figure 4 on page 21, which titles "Estimated achievement growth during 4 years of high school for disadvantaged, average and advantaged White and Black students in low-, middle-, and high-SES high schools".

What it says is that you place a student in higher-SES schools, regardless his/her race or academic performance level or family SEC status, he/she will do better than if he is in lower-SES schools, vice versa. What it means is that if you mix low-SES with high-SES school students to make the school middle-SES, the kids who are from the low-SES schools will do better and those who are from the high-SES schools will do worse than they were.

This gives a valid argument that busing would reduce the achievement gap. Ideally, the families from high-SES schools will comply for the noble goal of equality, but in reality it's hard to sell.
Here is a quote from another Rumberger paper:
"recognize that schools alone cannot be the sole area for the improvement of student performance. Existing research provides substantial evidence that most of the
differences in students’ achievement are due to differences in their families and communities, not the schools they attend. Therefore, to improve student outcomes and address the achievement gap will require addressing the pervasive inequalities found in family and community resources" (underlined added by me)

Here is an article you might find interesting titled "Schools alone cannot close Achievement gap":
http://issues.org/29-3/beatty/

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Anonymous wrote:To me it would depend on what would be the goal of such an effort? If it is to alleviate over crowding, I am all for it. If it is for "diversity" than forget it. I dont want my kid bussed across the county to some gang school. FWIW we are in RM cluster, not W

Which school or schools are gang schools in your opinion?

The one we moved away from, Watkins Mill. I would also include Gaithersburg, Seneca Valley, SS schools.

What a snob you are. Did you have a child who actually attended any of these schools? My children are students at one of the schools you listed. They are not afraid to go to school. There are not gang fights in the hallways. My relative's children recently graduated from Watkins Mill, where they were involved in a lot of activities and enjoyed their high school experience; their kids were not afraid to go to school, either.

There are plenty of students from good, caring families at the schools you listed, and teachers/administrators who care about their students. If you wanted to move away because you didn't want your kids to go there, fine, but don't put down a school you don't have any experience with.

Its funny as RM was not a good or nice school when I was growing up. It was one to be avoided. If they truly think RM is better, good luck to them.

RM of today is so not the RM of 20 yrs ago. It has a gs rating of 8. You might say it's the IB program but the MS feeder school JW, which doesn't have a test in magnet program, has a GS rating of 9.

More rich people move to the area so now its well regarded and yet other schools are bashed. RM has had some very serious issues and incidents. But, yes, lets just cover them all up and pretend all is good now. Not a chance I'd send my kids there.

? Because W schools are without incidences? I've read about a few, and know someone who definitely knows that many of the issues at those schools get covered up by wealth parents' money.

And to the other PP who stated it's just the IB, you totally disregarded the second sentence about JW being rated 9. But since it doesn't fit into your narrative, you just can't accept it, can you?

The RM cluster is really the god standard of turning around schools for MCPS. Prior to 1987, JW and RM were in serious trouble. There was extreme underenrollment and the student bodies of the schools were severely underperforming goals. The solution was a multipronged, but highly controversial, set of actions:

(1) Redistrict higher SES areas to JW and RM.
(2) Improve the paper performance of the school to make it more desirable (on paper at least).
(3) Develop new construction into the district targeting families with higher SES.

Redistricting was accomplished by moving Ritchie Park Elementary School from the Frost/Wootton cluster to JW/RM. The families of Ritchie Park were livid and fought this hard. Home values have been affected, but the longterm effects have been blunted. Short-term effects were clear.

Improvement of paper scores was accomplished by bringing in the IB magnet, which initially made up a large percent of the school population. Not only did this improve the paper view of the school--encouraging higher SES families to move to or remain in the district, but it may have positively affected the non-magnet population of the school with increased population and budgets for non-magnet programs, too.

Development of new construction for higher SES families was a huge success with both the Falls Grove and Rose Hill communities. Falls Grove's large houses can sell for over $1m, though there is also mixed development and more urban development. Rose Hill is not mixed, and most homes there currently market for $1m or more when they are even available.

Today, the RM and JW district is highly performing--even for the non-IB-magnet students--a complete turnaround from 30 years ago. Downtown rockville has become much more desirable, and large and expensive construction has continued there, bringing higher SES students to RM as well. Just look at the school ratings of the feeder schools to RM, of which only College Gardens has an immersion program to bring in outside-district students:

College Gardens: 9
Ritchie Park: 8
Beall: 8
Twinbrook: 4
Julius West: 9

Clearly, only Twinbrook is lagging in rating. The district is pretty good. It is the gold standard of how to improve a cluster.

Long term effects? Those that were redistricted see a continued $150K+ drop in value to their homes. I don't think that is blunted. They also moved access to the kids easily walking to Frost and Wootton (since the entire neighborhood is LITERALLY right next to Wootton) and now bus them to JW and RM. So yeah, I think they have the right to be royally pissed off. Loss of $150K in equity, loss of being able to walk to school, and sent to a shitty ass school. There are so many in those developments that go to private schools. Bullis, St E's, St Raphaels, JDS, etc... That is also a loss of $$. You think that is what should happen? You think the county should go in and redistrict nice neighborhoods in great schools to subpar schools? Put middle class families that paid a premium for homes for a certain school and gut them financially?

The Non-W schools are the forgotten ones. Those neighborhoods see their other neighborhood schools like Beverly Farms and Cold Spring with barely 70% capacity while Ritchie Park has taken on the entire Fallsgrove neighborhood and Park Potomac and they are 135% capacity with 7 portables parked outside on the blacktops they used to play on. Promised a 5th elementary school for years and years. Who knows if it will ever come. Meanwhile Beverly Farms looks like a f'ing middle school and Cold Spring has a ridiculous amount of land and will be getting a complete renovation soon.

You didn't back up any of your arguments with anything of value. I stated 3 things that MCPS did. You claimed all they did was redistrict. Where is your citation that real estate growth rates are lagging for Falls Grove? The RMIB program was established in 1987--the same year that the redistricting occurred. You stated that they did it afterwards. Donald, you can't win here, either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OK, so the JW students (close to a 1000 students) who are making the school have a rating of 9 somehow magically disappear or become underachievers when they go to RM, and its *only* because of the IB program there that RM has a high rating? Okaaay. Someone's in lala land.

I think you are.

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Anonymous wrote:To me it would depend on what would be the goal of such an effort? If it is to alleviate over crowding, I am all for it. If it is for "diversity" than forget it. I dont want my kid bussed across the county to some gang school. FWIW we are in RM cluster, not W

Which school or schools are gang schools in your opinion?

The one we moved away from, Watkins Mill. I would also include Gaithersburg, Seneca Valley, SS schools.

What a snob you are. Did you have a child who actually attended any of these schools? My children are students at one of the schools you listed. They are not afraid to go to school. There are not gang fights in the hallways. My relative's children recently graduated from Watkins Mill, where they were involved in a lot of activities and enjoyed their high school experience; their kids were not afraid to go to school, either.

There are plenty of students from good, caring families at the schools you listed, and teachers/administrators who care about their students. If you wanted to move away because you didn't want your kids to go there, fine, but don't put down a school you don't have any experience with.

Its funny as RM was not a good or nice school when I was growing up. It was one to be avoided. If they truly think RM is better, good luck to them.

RM of today is so not the RM of 20 yrs ago. It has a gs rating of 8. You might say it's the IB program but the MS feeder school JW, which doesn't have a test in magnet program, has a GS rating of 9.

More rich people move to the area so now its well regarded and yet other schools are bashed. RM has had some very serious issues and incidents. But, yes, lets just cover them all up and pretend all is good now. Not a chance I'd send my kids there.

? Because W schools are without incidences? I've read about a few, and know someone who definitely knows that many of the issues at those schools get covered up by wealth parents' money.

And to the other PP who stated it's just the IB, you totally disregarded the second sentence about JW being rated 9. But since it doesn't fit into your narrative, you just can't accept it, can you?

The RM cluster is really the god standard of turning around schools for MCPS. Prior to 1987, JW and RM were in serious trouble. There was extreme underenrollment and the student bodies of the schools were severely underperforming goals. The solution was a multipronged, but highly controversial, set of actions:

(1) Redistrict higher SES areas to JW and RM.
(2) Improve the paper performance of the school to make it more desirable (on paper at least).
(3) Develop new construction into the district targeting families with higher SES.

Redistricting was accomplished by moving Ritchie Park Elementary School from the Frost/Wootton cluster to JW/RM. The families of Ritchie Park were livid and fought this hard. Home values have been affected, but the longterm effects have been blunted. Short-term effects were clear.

Improvement of paper scores was accomplished by bringing in the IB magnet, which initially made up a large percent of the school population. Not only did this improve the paper view of the school--encouraging higher SES families to move to or remain in the district, but it may have positively affected the non-magnet population of the school with increased population and budgets for non-magnet programs, too.

Development of new construction for higher SES families was a huge success with both the Falls Grove and Rose Hill communities. Falls Grove's large houses can sell for over $1m, though there is also mixed development and more urban development. Rose Hill is not mixed, and most homes there currently market for $1m or more when they are even available.

Today, the RM and JW district is highly performing--even for the non-IB-magnet students--a complete turnaround from 30 years ago. Downtown rockville has become much more desirable, and large and expensive construction has continued there, bringing higher SES students to RM as well. Just look at the school ratings of the feeder schools to RM, of which only College Gardens has an immersion program to bring in outside-district students:

College Gardens: 9
Ritchie Park: 8
Beall: 8
Twinbrook: 4
Julius West: 9

Clearly, only Twinbrook is lagging in rating. The district is pretty good. It is the gold standard of how to improve a cluster.

My child goes to RM. It sucks to be honest. It is not a gold standard. All they did was redistrict the entire Ritchie Park from Wootton to RM (major major uproar when it happened.) Then they promised Fallsgrove would go to Wootton and after building, decided to move them to RP and into RM. Another major disappointment. Real estate is lagging there. Then they bring in the IB program. So of course doing those 3 things will increase scores. It doesn't fix the system, it masks it.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me it would depend on what would be the goal of such an effort? If it is to alleviate over crowding, I am all for it. If it is for "diversity" than forget it. I dont want my kid bussed across the county to some gang school. FWIW we are in RM cluster, not W

Which school or schools are gang schools in your opinion?

The one we moved away from, Watkins Mill. I would also include Gaithersburg, Seneca Valley, SS schools.

What a snob you are. Did you have a child who actually attended any of these schools? My children are students at one of the schools you listed. They are not afraid to go to school. There are not gang fights in the hallways. My relative's children recently graduated from Watkins Mill, where they were involved in a lot of activities and enjoyed their high school experience; their kids were not afraid to go to school, either.

There are plenty of students from good, caring families at the schools you listed, and teachers/administrators who care about their students. If you wanted to move away because you didn't want your kids to go there, fine, but don't put down a school you don't have any experience with.

Its funny as RM was not a good or nice school when I was growing up. It was one to be avoided. If they truly think RM is better, good luck to them.

RM of today is so not the RM of 20 yrs ago. It has a gs rating of 8. You might say it's the IB program but the MS feeder school JW, which doesn't have a test in magnet program, has a GS rating of 9.

More rich people move to the area so now its well regarded and yet other schools are bashed. RM has had some very serious issues and incidents. But, yes, lets just cover them all up and pretend all is good now. Not a chance I'd send my kids there.

? Because W schools are without incidences? I've read about a few, and know someone who definitely knows that many of the issues at those schools get covered up by wealth parents' money.

And to the other PP who stated it's just the IB, you totally disregarded the second sentence about JW being rated 9. But since it doesn't fit into your narrative, you just can't accept it, can you?

The RM cluster is really the god standard of turning around schools for MCPS. Prior to 1987, JW and RM were in serious trouble. There was extreme underenrollment and the student bodies of the schools were severely underperforming goals. The solution was a multipronged, but highly controversial, set of actions:

(1) Redistrict higher SES areas to JW and RM.
(2) Improve the paper performance of the school to make it more desirable (on paper at least).
(3) Develop new construction into the district targeting families with higher SES.

Redistricting was accomplished by moving Ritchie Park Elementary School from the Frost/Wootton cluster to JW/RM. The families of Ritchie Park were livid and fought this hard. Home values have been affected, but the longterm effects have been blunted. Short-term effects were clear.

Improvement of paper scores was accomplished by bringing in the IB magnet, which initially made up a large percent of the school population. Not only did this improve the paper view of the school--encouraging higher SES families to move to or remain in the district, but it may have positively affected the non-magnet population of the school with increased population and budgets for non-magnet programs, too.

Development of new construction for higher SES families was a huge success with both the Falls Grove and Rose Hill communities. Falls Grove's large houses can sell for over $1m, though there is also mixed development and more urban development. Rose Hill is not mixed, and most homes there currently market for $1m or more when they are even available.

Today, the RM and JW district is highly performing--even for the non-IB-magnet students--a complete turnaround from 30 years ago. Downtown rockville has become much more desirable, and large and expensive construction has continued there, bringing higher SES students to RM as well. Just look at the school ratings of the feeder schools to RM, of which only College Gardens has an immersion program to bring in outside-district students:

College Gardens: 9
Ritchie Park: 8
Beall: 8
Twinbrook: 4
Julius West: 9

Clearly, only Twinbrook is lagging in rating. The district is pretty good. It is the gold standard of how to improve a cluster.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me it would depend on what would be the goal of such an effort? If it is to alleviate over crowding, I am all for it. If it is for "diversity" than forget it. I dont want my kid bussed across the county to some gang school. FWIW we are in RM cluster, not W

Which school or schools are gang schools in your opinion?

The one we moved away from, Watkins Mill. I would also include Gaithersburg, Seneca Valley, SS schools.

What a snob you are. Did you have a child who actually attended any of these schools? My children are students at one of the schools you listed. They are not afraid to go to school. There are not gang fights in the hallways. My relative's children recently graduated from Watkins Mill, where they were involved in a lot of activities and enjoyed their high school experience; their kids were not afraid to go to school, either.

There are plenty of students from good, caring families at the schools you listed, and teachers/administrators who care about their students. If you wanted to move away because you didn't want your kids to go there, fine, but don't put down a school you don't have any experience with.

Its funny as RM was not a good or nice school when I was growing up. It was one to be avoided. If they truly think RM is better, good luck to them.

RM of today is so not the RM of 20 yrs ago. It has a gs rating of 8. You might say it's the IB program but the MS feeder school JW, which doesn't have a test in magnet program, has a GS rating of 9.

More rich people move to the area so now its well regarded and yet other schools are bashed. RM has had some very serious issues and incidents. But, yes, lets just cover them all up and pretend all is good now. Not a chance I'd send my kids there.

? Because W schools are without incidences? I've read about a few, and know someone who definitely knows that many of the issues at those schools get covered up by wealth parents' money.

And to the other PP who stated it's just the IB, you totally disregarded the second sentence about JW being rated 9. But since it doesn't fit into your narrative, you just can't accept it, can you?

The RM cluster is really the god standard of turning around schools for MCPS. Prior to 1987, JW and RM were in serious trouble. There was extreme underenrollment and the student bodies of the schools were severely underperforming goals. The solution was a multipronged, but highly controversial, set of actions:

(1) Redistrict higher SES areas to JW and RM.
(2) Improve the paper performance of the school to make it more desirable (on paper at least).
(3) Develop new construction into the district targeting families with higher SES.

Redistricting was accomplished by moving Ritchie Park Elementary School from the Frost/Wootton cluster to JW/RM. The families of Ritchie Park were livid and fought this hard. Home values have been affected, but the longterm effects have been blunted. Short-term effects were clear.

Improvement of paper scores was accomplished by bringing in the IB magnet, which initially made up a large percent of the school population. Not only did this improve the paper view of the school--encouraging higher SES families to move to or remain in the district, but it may have positively affected the non-magnet population of the school with increased population and budgets for non-magnet programs, too.

Development of new construction for higher SES families was a huge success with both the Falls Grove and Rose Hill communities. Falls Grove's large houses can sell for over $1m, though there is also mixed development and more urban development. Rose Hill is not mixed, and most homes there currently market for $1m or more when they are even available.

Today, the RM and JW district is highly performing--even for the non-IB-magnet students--a complete turnaround from 30 years ago. Downtown rockville has become much more desirable, and large and expensive construction has continued there, bringing higher SES students to RM as well. Just look at the school ratings of the feeder schools to RM, of which only College Gardens has an immersion program to bring in outside-district students:

College Gardens: 9
Ritchie Park: 8
Beall: 8
Twinbrook: 4
Julius West: 9

Clearly, only Twinbrook is lagging in rating. The district is pretty good. It is the gold standard of how to improve a cluster.

Anonymous wrote:

OK, so the JW students (close to a 1000 students) who are making the school have a rating of 9 somehow magically disappear or become underachievers when they go to RM, and its *only* because of the IB program there that RM has a high rating? Okaaay. Someone's in lala land.

I think you are.