NP here. Married 20+ years, I've detached for a few years now and it has definitely helped, as OP and PPs have noted.

I have a question for this group. My husband is great around the house, with meals, kids, etc. but his issue is that he has a hard time with his temper. The other day, we were talking about an activity I wanted to do. Without going into detail, it would have involved me going over to a stranger's house. I was fine with it (the stranger was someone I had checked out and was a legit guy) but I broached the subject with him to see if he was comfortable. We were two or three sentences into the discussion, and out of the blue he said "Do whatever the fuck you want." Totally inappropriate to jump to DEFCON 5 in my book. Had he said "Hey, I'm just not comfortable with you doing that. Can you find another way to do it?" I would've of course said "yeah, I hear you. Let me rethink this."

This is typical of him - he goes from nice/reasonable to upset/nasty in a flash. He does this maybe 2-3 times a year. Clearly, this is his issue, not mine. But two days later, I'm feeling hurt and around the house we are being polite but barely speaking. He is not an apologizer, so I do not expect an apology. Also, I know that if I try to sit down and discuss this with him, he will drag out all my past "transgressions" (in other post-argument discussions past, one such transgression was that I went out to dinner with a group of moms from my son's sports team the week before I went on a vacation. So in my view at least, his thinking is a little bizarre...).

Anyway, I am wondering how you fellow detachers would handle this. I typically eventually act like nothing's wrong and move on. Again, it's his issue, not mine. Thanks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know that I really agree with this line of thinking. Maybe my husband is more..malleable than many men? I wouldn't have thought so but my take on this kind of thing is that bottom line, I don't take crap. I deserve to be treated a certain way and I am going to get that treatment.

When we were first married, he did that thing many men do where they go to the grocery store and came back with a bunch of junk. Unh uh, sorry, your ass is going back to the store to get the real food we need. And yes I will ridicule you because you deserve to be. Thirty years old and you can't scan the cupboards to see what we need? Fucking no. He leaves his dirty dishes by the sink for me to clean or whiskers in the sink? I'm not your fucking maid, this is unacceptable, clean them now before you go to work. You thought I was going to do all the night wakings and take care of the kid by myself while you "baby sit" some times? No fucking way, I will divorce your ass over this. You're going to tell me you'll do some house project so we don't have to waste money on hiring it out but then not do it? Yeah I will inform you how childish and irresponsible that type of behavior. I'm not going to play nice about bullshit like that. Point blank, if you want to be with me, you will treat me the way I want.

We've been married over ten years, together for 15, and I've basically turned him into the husband and father I wanted for myself and my children. Don't take crap, ladies. You're better than that.

You sound angry and unhappy.

I get angry on behalf of other women when I think about how overburdened we are compared to men when it comes to societal expectations. Cook, clean, keep house, be the perfect mother at all times, stay in tip top shape, lose the baby weight lickety split, put out every night, oh and work 50 hours a week in a demanding career. It is bullshit. We *should* expect our husbands to meet us halfway and, more importantly, *hold* them to that expectation.

This! PLUS all of the mental gymnastics: keeping track of where everyone is during the day and where they have to go, scheduling and attending play dates because you have to help your children cultivate friendships, dealing with the school and keeping track of all those details, keeping track of medical and dental appointments, even keeping tracks of seasonal changes to make the necessary adjustment to the children's wardrobes. Then add in all the default parenting. It's exhausting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is so much power in stepping back and disentangling yourself, not being in a highly reactive state all the time. It took me two decades of struggle with my partner.

It was only when I truly, finally understood at a gut level that I can't control others, only myself, that I started to find more peace. This applies even more if your partner has serious issues they are working on.

I am angry, no doubt about it, at injustices in my partnership, in the world, in life. That's the kind of person I am. But it's on me to handle my feelings and reactions to the world around me.

I let go of thinking I could change or control my parther's actions or feelings. I put all my focus into figuring out how to handle myself, into making life more positive for myself and everyone around me, and into communicating and dealing with him in a positive way.

Keep in mind, you have to do this with an understanding of what acceptable limits are on how you are treated and what you accept from others. There's a fine line between being resigned to and accepting others' behaviors and actually enabling others to get away with dumping things on you.

I think women really struggle with these issues with our partners because we get into childrearing mode, where we are always telling our kids what to do, teaching them, molding their behaviors, as it's part of our jobs as parents. NOT parenting our partners or random strangers means we have to make a conscious effort to switch that off.

New poster. Can you give some examples of this? This is where I am struggling. I do much more around the house than my husband but I can't think of a way to make him want to do more.

Reframe the question. What do you want to do, PP. Take your husband out of the picture. What are the things around the house that matter to you. Do those. Leave everything else to the side. What might happen is that you will stop doing things he really wants taken care of. In which case, he'll do them because you're not going to.

For example, I hate dealing with dry cleaning. The hours are awful, I am always rushed and the bulk of my clothes I don't need to dry clean that often. My husband gets his dress shirts cleaned on a weekly basis. I explained to him that I was only going to the dry cleaner once a month (with my stuff). His dirty shirts piled up, he asked me to go, I told him I didn't need anything cleaned and walked out the door to work. He took his stuff with him and now is keeping track of this. Because it matters to him. Not me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know that I really agree with this line of thinking. Maybe my husband is more..malleable than many men? I wouldn't have thought so but my take on this kind of thing is that bottom line, I don't take crap. I deserve to be treated a certain way and I am going to get that treatment.

When we were first married, he did that thing many men do where they go to the grocery store and came back with a bunch of junk. Unh uh, sorry, your ass is going back to the store to get the real food we need. And yes I will ridicule you because you deserve to be. Thirty years old and you can't scan the cupboards to see what we need? Fucking no. He leaves his dirty dishes by the sink for me to clean or whiskers in the sink? I'm not your fucking maid, this is unacceptable, clean them now before you go to work. You thought I was going to do all the night wakings and take care of the kid by myself while you "baby sit" some times? No fucking way, I will divorce your ass over this. You're going to tell me you'll do some house project so we don't have to waste money on hiring it out but then not do it? Yeah I will inform you how childish and irresponsible that type of behavior. I'm not going to play nice about bullshit like that. Point blank, if you want to be with me, you will treat me the way I want.

We've been married over ten years, together for 15, and I've basically turned him into the husband and father I wanted for myself and my children. Don't take crap, ladies. You're better than that.

Yes, whenever someone pipes up with this - "I wouldn't put up with that" - it's really because you have a husband who is open to your influence and you haven't really had to. Your examples don't even scratch the surface. I see this with a lot of women I know. The ones who think they have "trained" their husbands had a husband who hasn't been that difficult to work with. And no, I don't really believe you would have divorced his ass over it.

This! It's easy to say you would never put up with something and get a divorce. The reality is that the awfulness of divorce (and it ain't great) versus the awfulness of your marriage is sometimes influenced by your perspective and experience. It's easy to talk in the abstract.

Have you ever tried having a "Come to Jesus Talk" with your husband? You need to put it to him in direct terms: either you change for the better or I will leave. But I will not put up with this. I'm not your mother, I'm not your maid, I'm not the hired nanny and it is completely unacceptable for you to treat me as any of these things. Try turning it around on him. Would he be ok with you completely abdicating adult roles around the house? What if you stopped paying attention to the budget? How would he like that?

+ 1

If a super frank conversation like this doesn't work, why would you WANT to be married to such a man who basically expects you to mother him and clean up after him? You can do better! There are a lot of men out there who act like responsible, grown adults who take care of their households and families because THAT'S WHAT ADULTS DO.

+ 1

I don't know that "detachment" is really the right strategy here if it leads to the wife doing everything without putting any expectations on the husband because he'll only fail anyway and she doesn't want to get upset anymore. Seems win/win for the husband and exactly what he wanted in the first place.

You have to let go of some stuff. You're basically a single mom. So what are you going to let go? Half of the cleaning? Half of the kid stuff? Purchase more prepared meals to eat? Out source help? Cut back on work hours?

And we're advocating this as the best approach? Maybe some of these women *should* divorce their husbands or at least threaten them with divorce in a CTJT (and mean it - you have to mean it). How do you know they can't find a better man who will be more of a 50/50 partner to her?

Because you are still dealing with the issues of coparenting, support, logistics, and other crap that will make your children's lives infinitely more complicated. It's not about finding another man, it's about finding your own sense of peace. For some people, they can do this while being married and operating the way the women and this thread have spoken about.

Anonymous wrote:There is so much power in stepping back and disentangling yourself, not being in a highly reactive state all the time. It took me two decades of struggle with my partner.

It was only when I truly, finally understood at a gut level that I can't control others, only myself, that I started to find more peace. This applies even more if your partner has serious issues they are working on.

I am angry, no doubt about it, at injustices in my partnership, in the world, in life. That's the kind of person I am. But it's on me to handle my feelings and reactions to the world around me.

I let go of thinking I could change or control my parther's actions or feelings. I put all my focus into figuring out how to handle myself, into making life more positive for myself and everyone around me, and into communicating and dealing with him in a positive way.

Keep in mind, you have to do this with an understanding of what acceptable limits are on how you are treated and what you accept from others. There's a fine line between being resigned to and accepting others' behaviors and actually enabling others to get away with dumping things on you.

I think women really struggle with these issues with our partners because we get into childrearing mode, where we are always telling our kids what to do, teaching them, molding their behaviors, as it's part of our jobs as parents. NOT parenting our partners or random strangers means we have to make a conscious effort to switch that off.

OP here. That is what I realized in a strange way. When I pulled back and took a hard look at myself and what I wanted and focused less on what my husband wants or what I want from my husband, there was a lot more space to really see things clearly. I don't believe ultimatums are a good idea, particularly when you are wrapped up in the resentment haze. There is a bit of clarity I achieved that made me realize that my husband does much more than I was willing to give him credit for and I did not need to tie my emotional happiness to the question of whether he's happy. We have crappy days. But I am only responsible for making myself feel whole and happy. I share that with my husband. And he shares his happiness with me. But I don't think it's a bad thing to stop caring so much about what he thinks or does and focus on what you think and what you want to do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know that I really agree with this line of thinking. Maybe my husband is more..malleable than many men? I wouldn't have thought so but my take on this kind of thing is that bottom line, I don't take crap. I deserve to be treated a certain way and I am going to get that treatment.

When we were first married, he did that thing many men do where they go to the grocery store and came back with a bunch of junk. Unh uh, sorry, your ass is going back to the store to get the real food we need. And yes I will ridicule you because you deserve to be. Thirty years old and you can't scan the cupboards to see what we need? Fucking no. He leaves his dirty dishes by the sink for me to clean or whiskers in the sink? I'm not your fucking maid, this is unacceptable, clean them now before you go to work. You thought I was going to do all the night wakings and take care of the kid by myself while you "baby sit" some times? No fucking way, I will divorce your ass over this. You're going to tell me you'll do some house project so we don't have to waste money on hiring it out but then not do it? Yeah I will inform you how childish and irresponsible that type of behavior. I'm not going to play nice about bullshit like that. Point blank, if you want to be with me, you will treat me the way I want.

We've been married over ten years, together for 15, and I've basically turned him into the husband and father I wanted for myself and my children. Don't take crap, ladies. You're better than that.

You sound angry and unhappy.

I get angry on behalf of other women when I think about how overburdened we are compared to men when it comes to societal expectations. Cook, clean, keep house, be the perfect mother at all times, stay in tip top shape, lose the baby weight lickety split, put out every night, oh and work 50 hours a week in a demanding career. It is bullshit. We *should* expect our husbands to meet us halfway and, more importantly, *hold* them to that expectation.

I agree to a point, but I would say it is women--not men--who put the expectations on other women, not men.

My MIL expects me to be Sally Homemaker and Birthday Rememberer, not DH. Anna Wintour pushed for anorexic chic, not Hugh Hefner.

I don't know, seems to me there are a lot of men on this board and irl complaining about wives who never lost the baby weight and never want to have sex anymore (maybe because they have to do everything around the house? just a guess)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know that I really agree with this line of thinking. Maybe my husband is more..malleable than many men? I wouldn't have thought so but my take on this kind of thing is that bottom line, I don't take crap. I deserve to be treated a certain way and I am going to get that treatment.

When we were first married, he did that thing many men do where they go to the grocery store and came back with a bunch of junk. Unh uh, sorry, your ass is going back to the store to get the real food we need. And yes I will ridicule you because you deserve to be. Thirty years old and you can't scan the cupboards to see what we need? Fucking no. He leaves his dirty dishes by the sink for me to clean or whiskers in the sink? I'm not your fucking maid, this is unacceptable, clean them now before you go to work. You thought I was going to do all the night wakings and take care of the kid by myself while you "baby sit" some times? No fucking way, I will divorce your ass over this. You're going to tell me you'll do some house project so we don't have to waste money on hiring it out but then not do it? Yeah I will inform you how childish and irresponsible that type of behavior. I'm not going to play nice about bullshit like that. Point blank, if you want to be with me, you will treat me the way I want.

We've been married over ten years, together for 15, and I've basically turned him into the husband and father I wanted for myself and my children. Don't take crap, ladies. You're better than that.

Yes, whenever someone pipes up with this - "I wouldn't put up with that" - it's really because you have a husband who is open to your influence and you haven't really had to. Your examples don't even scratch the surface. I see this with a lot of women I know. The ones who think they have "trained" their husbands had a husband who hasn't been that difficult to work with. And no, I don't really believe you would have divorced his ass over it.

This! It's easy to say you would never put up with something and get a divorce. The reality is that the awfulness of divorce (and it ain't great) versus the awfulness of your marriage is sometimes influenced by your perspective and experience. It's easy to talk in the abstract.

Have you ever tried having a "Come to Jesus Talk" with your husband? You need to put it to him in direct terms: either you change for the better or I will leave. But I will not put up with this. I'm not your mother, I'm not your maid, I'm not the hired nanny and it is completely unacceptable for you to treat me as any of these things. Try turning it around on him. Would he be ok with you completely abdicating adult roles around the house? What if you stopped paying attention to the budget? How would he like that?

+ 1

If a super frank conversation like this doesn't work, why would you WANT to be married to such a man who basically expects you to mother him and clean up after him? You can do better! There are a lot of men out there who act like responsible, grown adults who take care of their households and families because THAT'S WHAT ADULTS DO.

+ 1

I don't know that "detachment" is really the right strategy here if it leads to the wife doing everything without putting any expectations on the husband because he'll only fail anyway and she doesn't want to get upset anymore. Seems win/win for the husband and exactly what he wanted in the first place.

You have to let go of some stuff. You're basically a single mom. So what are you going to let go? Half of the cleaning? Half of the kid stuff? Purchase more prepared meals to eat? Out source help? Cut back on work hours?

And we're advocating this as the best approach? Maybe some of these women *should* divorce their husbands or at least threaten them with divorce in a CTJT (and mean it - you have to mean it). How do you know they can't find a better man who will be more of a 50/50 partner to her?

Anonymous wrote:There is so much power in stepping back and disentangling yourself, not being in a highly reactive state all the time. It took me two decades of struggle with my partner.

It was only when I truly, finally understood at a gut level that I can't control others, only myself, that I started to find more peace. This applies even more if your partner has serious issues they are working on.

I am angry, no doubt about it, at injustices in my partnership, in the world, in life. That's the kind of person I am. But it's on me to handle my feelings and reactions to the world around me.

I let go of thinking I could change or control my parther's actions or feelings. I put all my focus into figuring out how to handle myself, into making life more positive for myself and everyone around me, and into communicating and dealing with him in a positive way.

Keep in mind, you have to do this with an understanding of what acceptable limits are on how you are treated and what you accept from others. There's a fine line between being resigned to and accepting others' behaviors and actually enabling others to get away with dumping things on you.

I think women really struggle with these issues with our partners because we get into childrearing mode, where we are always telling our kids what to do, teaching them, molding their behaviors, as it's part of our jobs as parents. NOT parenting our partners or random strangers means we have to make a conscious effort to switch that off.

New poster. Can you give some examples of this? This is where I am struggling. I do much more around the house than my husband but I can't think of a way to make him want to do more.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know that I really agree with this line of thinking. Maybe my husband is more..malleable than many men? I wouldn't have thought so but my take on this kind of thing is that bottom line, I don't take crap. I deserve to be treated a certain way and I am going to get that treatment.

When we were first married, he did that thing many men do where they go to the grocery store and came back with a bunch of junk. Unh uh, sorry, your ass is going back to the store to get the real food we need. And yes I will ridicule you because you deserve to be. Thirty years old and you can't scan the cupboards to see what we need? Fucking no. He leaves his dirty dishes by the sink for me to clean or whiskers in the sink? I'm not your fucking maid, this is unacceptable, clean them now before you go to work. You thought I was going to do all the night wakings and take care of the kid by myself while you "baby sit" some times? No fucking way, I will divorce your ass over this. You're going to tell me you'll do some house project so we don't have to waste money on hiring it out but then not do it? Yeah I will inform you how childish and irresponsible that type of behavior. I'm not going to play nice about bullshit like that. Point blank, if you want to be with me, you will treat me the way I want.

We've been married over ten years, together for 15, and I've basically turned him into the husband and father I wanted for myself and my children. Don't take crap, ladies. You're better than that.

Yes, whenever someone pipes up with this - "I wouldn't put up with that" - it's really because you have a husband who is open to your influence and you haven't really had to. Your examples don't even scratch the surface. I see this with a lot of women I know. The ones who think they have "trained" their husbands had a husband who hasn't been that difficult to work with. And no, I don't really believe you would have divorced his ass over it.

This! It's easy to say you would never put up with something and get a divorce. The reality is that the awfulness of divorce (and it ain't great) versus the awfulness of your marriage is sometimes influenced by your perspective and experience. It's easy to talk in the abstract.

Have you ever tried having a "Come to Jesus Talk" with your husband? You need to put it to him in direct terms: either you change for the better or I will leave. But I will not put up with this. I'm not your mother, I'm not your maid, I'm not the hired nanny and it is completely unacceptable for you to treat me as any of these things. Try turning it around on him. Would he be ok with you completely abdicating adult roles around the house? What if you stopped paying attention to the budget? How would he like that?

+ 1

If a super frank conversation like this doesn't work, why would you WANT to be married to such a man who basically expects you to mother him and clean up after him? You can do better! There are a lot of men out there who act like responsible, grown adults who take care of their households and families because THAT'S WHAT ADULTS DO.

+ 1

I don't know that "detachment" is really the right strategy here if it leads to the wife doing everything without putting any expectations on the husband because he'll only fail anyway and she doesn't want to get upset anymore. Seems win/win for the husband and exactly what he wanted in the first place.

You have to let go of some stuff. You're basically a single mom. So what are you going to let go? Half of the cleaning? Half of the kid stuff? Purchase more prepared meals to eat? Out source help? Cut back on work hours?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know that I really agree with this line of thinking. Maybe my husband is more..malleable than many men? I wouldn't have thought so but my take on this kind of thing is that bottom line, I don't take crap. I deserve to be treated a certain way and I am going to get that treatment.

When we were first married, he did that thing many men do where they go to the grocery store and came back with a bunch of junk. Unh uh, sorry, your ass is going back to the store to get the real food we need. And yes I will ridicule you because you deserve to be. Thirty years old and you can't scan the cupboards to see what we need? Fucking no. He leaves his dirty dishes by the sink for me to clean or whiskers in the sink? I'm not your fucking maid, this is unacceptable, clean them now before you go to work. You thought I was going to do all the night wakings and take care of the kid by myself while you "baby sit" some times? No fucking way, I will divorce your ass over this. You're going to tell me you'll do some house project so we don't have to waste money on hiring it out but then not do it? Yeah I will inform you how childish and irresponsible that type of behavior. I'm not going to play nice about bullshit like that. Point blank, if you want to be with me, you will treat me the way I want.

We've been married over ten years, together for 15, and I've basically turned him into the husband and father I wanted for myself and my children. Don't take crap, ladies. You're better than that.

You sound angry and unhappy.

I get angry on behalf of other women when I think about how overburdened we are compared to men when it comes to societal expectations. Cook, clean, keep house, be the perfect mother at all times, stay in tip top shape, lose the baby weight lickety split, put out every night, oh and work 50 hours a week in a demanding career. It is bullshit. We *should* expect our husbands to meet us halfway and, more importantly, *hold* them to that expectation.

I agree to a point, but I would say it is women--not men--who put the expectations on other women, not men.

My MIL expects me to be Sally Homemaker and Birthday Rememberer, not DH. Anna Wintour pushed for anorexic chic, not Hugh Hefner.

Anonymous wrote:To the pps who decided to not give a damn anymore -- did your dhs know that you flipped the switch? Or did they just go one being oblivious and thoughtless while you felt a lot better? Or did you say -- F it, you do you?

This happened in my marriage, too. I fought and fought with him and the way our marriage was. I was trying everything to make it work. I thought about divorce. We talked about divorce. I decided not to divorce him because we have a kid with special needs who really needs to live with both of his parents. I told DH that I was done fighting about the marriage, that I would stay until the kids were adults, but that I was planning on leaving when that happened. Very clear about my intent.

DH did a 180. He is working very hard to try to figure out how to convince me not to leave him in 10 years. He tries really, really hard. I don't know what will happen in 10 years. I can still take it or leave it, but the marriage is a lot better now. (Before this, I was definitely in the "leave it" camp.)

There is so much power in stepping back and disentangling yourself, not being in a highly reactive state all the time. It took me two decades of struggle with my partner.

It was only when I truly, finally understood at a gut level that I can't control others, only myself, that I started to find more peace. This applies even more if your partner has serious issues they are working on.

I am angry, no doubt about it, at injustices in my partnership, in the world, in life. That's the kind of person I am. But it's on me to handle my feelings and reactions to the world around me.

I let go of thinking I could change or control my parther's actions or feelings. I put all my focus into figuring out how to handle myself, into making life more positive for myself and everyone around me, and into communicating and dealing with him in a positive way.

Keep in mind, you have to do this with an understanding of what acceptable limits are on how you are treated and what you accept from others. There's a fine line between being resigned to and accepting others' behaviors and actually enabling others to get away with dumping things on you.

I think women really struggle with these issues with our partners because we get into childrearing mode, where we are always telling our kids what to do, teaching them, molding their behaviors, as it's part of our jobs as parents. NOT parenting our partners or random strangers means we have to make a conscious effort to switch that off.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know that I really agree with this line of thinking. Maybe my husband is more..malleable than many men? I wouldn't have thought so but my take on this kind of thing is that bottom line, I don't take crap. I deserve to be treated a certain way and I am going to get that treatment.

When we were first married, he did that thing many men do where they go to the grocery store and came back with a bunch of junk. Unh uh, sorry, your ass is going back to the store to get the real food we need. And yes I will ridicule you because you deserve to be. Thirty years old and you can't scan the cupboards to see what we need? Fucking no. He leaves his dirty dishes by the sink for me to clean or whiskers in the sink? I'm not your fucking maid, this is unacceptable, clean them now before you go to work. You thought I was going to do all the night wakings and take care of the kid by myself while you "baby sit" some times? No fucking way, I will divorce your ass over this. You're going to tell me you'll do some house project so we don't have to waste money on hiring it out but then not do it? Yeah I will inform you how childish and irresponsible that type of behavior. I'm not going to play nice about bullshit like that. Point blank, if you want to be with me, you will treat me the way I want.

We've been married over ten years, together for 15, and I've basically turned him into the husband and father I wanted for myself and my children. Don't take crap, ladies. You're better than that.

You sound angry and unhappy.

I get angry on behalf of other women when I think about how overburdened we are compared to men when it comes to societal expectations. Cook, clean, keep house, be the perfect mother at all times, stay in tip top shape, lose the baby weight lickety split, put out every night, oh and work 50 hours a week in a demanding career. It is bullshit. We *should* expect our husbands to meet us halfway and, more importantly, *hold* them to that expectation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know that I really agree with this line of thinking. Maybe my husband is more..malleable than many men? I wouldn't have thought so but my take on this kind of thing is that bottom line, I don't take crap. I deserve to be treated a certain way and I am going to get that treatment.

When we were first married, he did that thing many men do where they go to the grocery store and came back with a bunch of junk. Unh uh, sorry, your ass is going back to the store to get the real food we need. And yes I will ridicule you because you deserve to be. Thirty years old and you can't scan the cupboards to see what we need? Fucking no. He leaves his dirty dishes by the sink for me to clean or whiskers in the sink? I'm not your fucking maid, this is unacceptable, clean them now before you go to work. You thought I was going to do all the night wakings and take care of the kid by myself while you "baby sit" some times? No fucking way, I will divorce your ass over this. You're going to tell me you'll do some house project so we don't have to waste money on hiring it out but then not do it? Yeah I will inform you how childish and irresponsible that type of behavior. I'm not going to play nice about bullshit like that. Point blank, if you want to be with me, you will treat me the way I want.

We've been married over ten years, together for 15, and I've basically turned him into the husband and father I wanted for myself and my children. Don't take crap, ladies. You're better than that.

Yes, whenever someone pipes up with this - "I wouldn't put up with that" - it's really because you have a husband who is open to your influence and you haven't really had to. Your examples don't even scratch the surface. I see this with a lot of women I know. The ones who think they have "trained" their husbands had a husband who hasn't been that difficult to work with. And no, I don't really believe you would have divorced his ass over it.

This! It's easy to say you would never put up with something and get a divorce. The reality is that the awfulness of divorce (and it ain't great) versus the awfulness of your marriage is sometimes influenced by your perspective and experience. It's easy to talk in the abstract.

Have you ever tried having a "Come to Jesus Talk" with your husband? You need to put it to him in direct terms: either you change for the better or I will leave. But I will not put up with this. I'm not your mother, I'm not your maid, I'm not the hired nanny and it is completely unacceptable for you to treat me as any of these things. Try turning it around on him. Would he be ok with you completely abdicating adult roles around the house? What if you stopped paying attention to the budget? How would he like that?

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If a super frank conversation like this doesn't work, why would you WANT to be married to such a man who basically expects you to mother him and clean up after him? You can do better! There are a lot of men out there who act like responsible, grown adults who take care of their households and families because THAT'S WHAT ADULTS DO.

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I don't know that "detachment" is really the right strategy here if it leads to the wife doing everything without putting any expectations on the husband because he'll only fail anyway and she doesn't want to get upset anymore. Seems win/win for the husband and exactly what he wanted in the first place.