Anonymous
Post 09/27/2016 18:21     Subject: Fillmore killed....again.
Oh, OK, if we're closing Fillmore we might as well close Ross, too. Because, logic. I'm surprised DCPS hasn't cracked warp drive yet, considering all the rocket scientists it has aligned with it.

What else does logic say should be closed, now that we're on a roll?
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2016 18:13     Subject: Fillmore killed....again.
Anonymous wrote:
Sorry, I am going to fact-check you here. Only one of those schools is Title I, namely Marie Reed. The others (Ross, Key, Hyde, Stoddert) are affluent in the DCPS context.

DCPS has taken the position that yes, this is about equity across the city. The way you would rebut that would be to demonstrate that students at the Fillmore schools are receiving the DCPS average level of funding and quality of arts programming, and not significantly more.

The fact that no Fillmore programs are being planned elsewhere is not relevant. If Fillmore is indeed more expensive than the cost of specials teachers for those schools, then the extra money would be available for other DCPS schools in whatever capacity, most of which are much poorer than these schools.



And Marie Reed will have arts space for 17-18, when this happens. So no need for them to use Stoddert anymore.

Which means the only schools left to solve for are Ross, Key, Hyde and Stoddert.


Ross shouldn't be a stand-alone school, let alone have it's kids bused two miles when Dupont Circle is on it's doorstep.

Ross is a holdover from the bad old days when DCPS couldn't open the buildings on time. It is in a building that is not supposed to exceed 150 students. It's been 160+ for a couple of years because it allows non-compulsory grades of PK3 and PK4. Ross was "saved" by parents who are long gone back when it was a Title I school and DCPS kowtowed to gentrifiers. However, there is nothing that can be done with it's building and lot at 17th & R St. It can't be expanded up, down, or sideways.

DCPS would like nothing better than to rid itself of a tiny building that can't be expanded when there are/will be two elementary schools (Garrison and Reed) with more appropriate facilities less than a mile away.

There is no logical justification for Ross and certainly no reason to continue sending Ross kids to Fillmore.

Anonymous
Post 09/27/2016 16:58     Subject: Fillmore killed....again.
Anonymous wrote:An office for an art teacher? For any teacher? Seriously?

If Ross is so dismal, apply OOB for another school.


Oh okay, so the psychologist, PE teacher, Spanish teacher, etc. will all just hold meetings in the cafeteria or outside.

Who said anything about Ross being dismal? It's simply out of space. What a strange "comeback".
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2016 16:28     Subject: Fillmore killed....again.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Shut down the $100M buildout at Coolidge and you'd have a LOT of money to spend building new renovations at elementary schools that are more successful, more popular, and serve more students than Coolidge ever will.


Keep it up and you'll blow a blood vessel.




Hopefully an embolism in the current administration!
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2016 15:54     Subject: Re:Fillmore killed....again.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry people - Filmore does not make sense for the school system as a whole.
This is one area where I support DCPS. It is about basic equity.
We would all love to have our kids go to Filmore but most DCPS kids don't have this opportunity.
Art and music $$ need to be spread out equally. I don't believe for a minute that there is not one inch of spare space
at these schools. Deal is at least 30% over capacity but somehow they find space for activities.
Everyone has to make concessions including the Filmore schools. If there really isn't space, walk kids to the closest school or to Hardy or Duke Ellington.
There are ways to figure this out rather than just stonewalling.


New poster here, no dog in this, but PP has correctly stated the case that Fillmore supporters must meet. No-one is really questioning the quality of the program. It is the opposite, DCPS is saying, why do these (mostly wealthy) schools get to enjoy this unique, expensive arts offering? DCPS wants to cancel this and make sure every school has an art and a music teacher, no more no less, including the schools currently served by Fillmore. DCPS is saying that Fillmore is providing unjustifiably large benefits to some of the city's wealthiest schools. Fillmore supporters need to explain why that view is incorrect.



They could strengthen their case in any direction by identifying waste that could be eliminated. Coolidge and Ellington come to mind.


You are confusing a waste argument with an equity argument. No-one argues that Fillmore is a waste of money in the sense of providing low quality programming per dollar spent. On the contrary it is recognized as a superior arts offering compared to what the average DCPS student experiences. And that's even before we get into the distinction between operating and capital budgets. So no, DCPS does not have to cut waste elsewhere before cutting Fillmore. Fillmore supporters need to rebut the argument that they are getting a cadillac arts program in a city where the government can only afford a Toyota for the average student. Is there a rebuttal to this argument? I haven't seen one yet. I have seen references to space constraints and references to waste elsewhere that should be cut. The latter is a non sequitur, the former is a legitimate concern but not a reason to maintain higher per-pupil arts spending for those schools, regardless of location of delivery.




I see in this, an argument that DC should never have statehood.

Despite spending more per student than any other district, it still can't do anything right. The smartest thing DC could do is smash every instrument of municipal control that employs even one person from the Barry era - they are contaminated and ruin everything they touch.

Start over completely.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2016 15:49     Subject: Fillmore killed....again.
Anonymous wrote:Shut down the $100M buildout at Coolidge and you'd have a LOT of money to spend building new renovations at elementary schools that are more successful, more popular, and serve more students than Coolidge ever will.


Keep it up and you'll blow a blood vessel.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2016 15:48     Subject: Fillmore killed....again.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The central issue is whether DCPS finds it more or less expensive and difficult to serve just the schools impacted via Fillmore or within their schools.

It has nothing to do with broader discussions about equity or inequity. There is not wider strategic impact review or debate at this time. There is definitely no discussion happening that would lead to any additional schools getting Fillmore-like arts programs (whether or not you like those).

None of the impacted schools have the capacity right now to deliver arts at their schools. So, if Fillmore is eliminated, there would have to be plans for how to provide quality arts to those kids.

Many feel without Fillmore those would be substandard given some of the impacted schools are less affluent and the others already are maxed out in space and facilities with trailers.

If you see the first page of the threat - there are meetings going on already.


Sorry, I am going to fact-check you here. Only one of those schools is Title I, namely Marie Reed. The others (Ross, Key, Hyde, Stoddert) are affluent in the DCPS context.

DCPS has taken the position that yes, this is about equity across the city. The way you would rebut that would be to demonstrate that students at the Fillmore schools are receiving the DCPS average level of funding and quality of arts programming, and not significantly more.

The fact that no Fillmore programs are being planned elsewhere is not relevant. If Fillmore is indeed more expensive than the cost of specials teachers for those schools, then the extra money would be available for other DCPS schools in whatever capacity, most of which are much poorer than these schools.



And Marie Reed will have arts space for 17-18, when this happens. So no need for them to use Stoddert anymore.

Which means the only schools left to solve for are Ross, Key, Hyde and Stoddert.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2016 15:32     Subject: Fillmore killed....again.
Anonymous wrote:The central issue is whether DCPS finds it more or less expensive and difficult to serve just the schools impacted via Fillmore or within their schools.

It has nothing to do with broader discussions about equity or inequity. There is not wider strategic impact review or debate at this time. There is definitely no discussion happening that would lead to any additional schools getting Fillmore-like arts programs (whether or not you like those).

None of the impacted schools have the capacity right now to deliver arts at their schools. So, if Fillmore is eliminated, there would have to be plans for how to provide quality arts to those kids.

Many feel without Fillmore those would be substandard given some of the impacted schools are less affluent and the others already are maxed out in space and facilities with trailers.

If you see the first page of the threat - there are meetings going on already.


Sorry, I am going to fact-check you here. Only one of those schools is Title I, namely Marie Reed. The others (Ross, Key, Hyde, Stoddert) are affluent in the DCPS context.

DCPS has taken the position that yes, this is about equity across the city. The way you would rebut that would be to demonstrate that students at the Fillmore schools are receiving the DCPS average level of funding and quality of arts programming, and not significantly more.

The fact that no Fillmore programs are being planned elsewhere is not relevant. If Fillmore is indeed more expensive than the cost of specials teachers for those schools, then the extra money would be available for other DCPS schools in whatever capacity, most of which are much poorer than these schools.

Anonymous
Post 09/27/2016 15:16     Subject: Fillmore killed....again.
Anonymous wrote:The central issue is whether DCPS finds it more or less expensive and difficult to serve just the schools impacted via Fillmore or within their schools.

It has nothing to do with broader discussions about equity or inequity. There is not wider strategic impact review or debate at this time. There is definitely no discussion happening that would lead to any additional schools getting Fillmore-like arts programs (whether or not you like those).

None of the impacted schools have the capacity right now to deliver arts at their schools. So, if Fillmore is eliminated, there would have to be plans for how to provide quality arts to those kids.

Many feel without Fillmore those would be substandard given some of the impacted schools are less affluent and the others already are maxed out in space and facilities with trailers.

If you see the first page of the threat - there are meetings going on already.


Maybe this is true - but why not let the principals come up with a proposal for what arts education will look like next year without automatically assuming it can't be done, or that parents necessarily know better than their school administrators how to do it.

Anonymous
Post 09/27/2016 13:59     Subject: Fillmore killed....again.
The central issue is whether DCPS finds it more or less expensive and difficult to serve just the schools impacted via Fillmore or within their schools.

It has nothing to do with broader discussions about equity or inequity. There is not wider strategic impact review or debate at this time. There is definitely no discussion happening that would lead to any additional schools getting Fillmore-like arts programs (whether or not you like those).

None of the impacted schools have the capacity right now to deliver arts at their schools. So, if Fillmore is eliminated, there would have to be plans for how to provide quality arts to those kids.

Many feel without Fillmore those would be substandard given some of the impacted schools are less affluent and the others already are maxed out in space and facilities with trailers.

If you see the first page of the threat - there are meetings going on already.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2016 13:59     Subject: Re:Fillmore killed....again.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry people - Filmore does not make sense for the school system as a whole.
This is one area where I support DCPS. It is about basic equity.
We would all love to have our kids go to Filmore but most DCPS kids don't have this opportunity.
Art and music $$ need to be spread out equally. I don't believe for a minute that there is not one inch of spare space
at these schools. Deal is at least 30% over capacity but somehow they find space for activities.
Everyone has to make concessions including the Filmore schools. If there really isn't space, walk kids to the closest school or to Hardy or Duke Ellington.
There are ways to figure this out rather than just stonewalling.


New poster here, no dog in this, but PP has correctly stated the case that Fillmore supporters must meet. No-one is really questioning the quality of the program. It is the opposite, DCPS is saying, why do these (mostly wealthy) schools get to enjoy this unique, expensive arts offering? DCPS wants to cancel this and make sure every school has an art and a music teacher, no more no less, including the schools currently served by Fillmore. DCPS is saying that Fillmore is providing unjustifiably large benefits to some of the city's wealthiest schools. Fillmore supporters need to explain why that view is incorrect.



They could strengthen their case in any direction by identifying waste that could be eliminated. Coolidge and Ellington come to mind.


You are confusing a waste argument with an equity argument. No-one argues that Fillmore is a waste of money in the sense of providing low quality programming per dollar spent. On the contrary it is recognized as a superior arts offering compared to what the average DCPS student experiences. And that's even before we get into the distinction between operating and capital budgets. So no, DCPS does not have to cut waste elsewhere before cutting Fillmore. Fillmore supporters need to rebut the argument that they are getting a cadillac arts program in a city where the government can only afford a Toyota for the average student. Is there a rebuttal to this argument? I haven't seen one yet. I have seen references to space constraints and references to waste elsewhere that should be cut. The latter is a non sequitur, the former is a legitimate concern but not a reason to maintain higher per-pupil arts spending for those schools, regardless of location of delivery.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2016 13:28     Subject: Fillmore killed....again.
There is a difference between capital budgets (Coolidge, Ellington) and operating budgets (Fillmore). If you don't understand that, don't expect your advocacy to be taken seriously.

Anonymous
Post 09/27/2016 12:25     Subject: Re:Fillmore killed....again.
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry people - Filmore does not make sense for the school system as a whole.
This is one area where I support DCPS. It is about basic equity.
We would all love to have our kids go to Filmore but most DCPS kids don't have this opportunity.
Art and music $$ need to be spread out equally. I don't believe for a minute that there is not one inch of spare space
at these schools. Deal is at least 30% over capacity but somehow they find space for activities.
Everyone has to make concessions including the Filmore schools. If there really isn't space, walk kids to the closest school or to Hardy or Duke Ellington.
There are ways to figure this out rather than just stonewalling.


New poster here, no dog in this, but PP has correctly stated the case that Fillmore supporters must meet. No-one is really questioning the quality of the program. It is the opposite, DCPS is saying, why do these (mostly wealthy) schools get to enjoy this unique, expensive arts offering? DCPS wants to cancel this and make sure every school has an art and a music teacher, no more no less, including the schools currently served by Fillmore. DCPS is saying that Fillmore is providing unjustifiably large benefits to some of the city's wealthiest schools. Fillmore supporters need to explain why that view is incorrect.



They could strengthen their case in any direction by identifying waste that could be eliminated. Coolidge and Ellington come to mind.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2016 11:25     Subject: Re:Fillmore killed....again.
Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry people - Filmore does not make sense for the school system as a whole.
This is one area where I support DCPS. It is about basic equity.
We would all love to have our kids go to Filmore but most DCPS kids don't have this opportunity.
Art and music $$ need to be spread out equally. I don't believe for a minute that there is not one inch of spare space
at these schools. Deal is at least 30% over capacity but somehow they find space for activities.
Everyone has to make concessions including the Filmore schools. If there really isn't space, walk kids to the closest school or to Hardy or Duke Ellington.
There are ways to figure this out rather than just stonewalling.


New poster here, no dog in this, but PP has correctly stated the case that Fillmore supporters must meet. No-one is really questioning the quality of the program. It is the opposite, DCPS is saying, why do these (mostly wealthy) schools get to enjoy this unique, expensive arts offering? DCPS wants to cancel this and make sure every school has an art and a music teacher, no more no less, including the schools currently served by Fillmore. DCPS is saying that Fillmore is providing unjustifiably large benefits to some of the city's wealthiest schools. Fillmore supporters need to explain why that view is incorrect.
Anonymous
Post 09/27/2016 04:55     Subject: Fillmore killed....again.
Walk kids from Key to Hardy? Your map skills are lacking.