Anonymous wrote:

Yes to all of this. And it's true you essentially are taking a pay cut when you work in a high FARMS school because of how much you end up spending out of your own pocket.

And, in some of those schools, the teachers deserve a stipend for just how difficult it is. I taught in such a school. I loved the kids, but some days I felt that I should be getting "combat pay" for the number of fights I had to stop.

Yes to all of this. And it's true you essentially are taking a pay cut when you work in a high FARMS school because of how much you end up spending out of your own pocket.

Anonymous wrote:Regarding merit pay--I work in a high FARMS school and my friend works in a school with a very affluent population. We both teach the same grade. I plan for and instruct 6 reading groups in my class ranging from 3 years below grade level to 1 year above grade level. She plans for 3 reading groups and the lowest group is on grade level. Small group instruction in math has a similar breakdown.

I provide and document interventions for all of my students who are performing below grade level. I advocate for my students who are not responding to interventions to go to EMT and screening meetings, but often find the process stalled because the parents don't respond to meeting requests or say they'll come but don't show up.

I work with students during my lunchtime and run after school clubs (unpaid). I use my own money to pay for supplies and materials outside of the small amount that the school provides us with. When students come to school without supplies--I provide the supplies. We are also asked to contribute to school-wide activities like family breakfasts and raffle prizes out of our own pockets. My friend is provided with hundreds of dollars from the PTA in addition to the money the school budget provides, and they get all the books on their wishlist from the book fair.

The field trips we go on are local, and one of the most important factors in deciding where to go is cost. Many families are not able to pay $5 or $10 for a field trip. Field trips are great opportunities to build background knowledge for many concepts that the curriculum writers assume that all students have. My friend's school goes on field trips to interesting places outside of the county in which we live because they have parents who will pay the cost of the buses. Many students are experiencing these places for the second or third time because they have already been with their families.

All of this may sound like sour grapes, but I truly enjoy working at my school and subjectively and objectively I'm good at what I do. But our data and test scores are not even close to my friend's school. We teach from the same curriculum, but it's apples and oranges. My district doesn't care about progress. They don't care that my lowest students made 1 and a half years worth of growth last year. They are still below grade level and their scores are in the red zone. So ultimately I'm a failure in the district's eyes.

So if merit pay comes to my district I'm going to have to hightail it out of there and into a school where students meet and exceed proficiency just by coming to school and doing the work assigned. Because as much as I feel like I can make a difference where I am, if they start paying my friend more than they pay me because her students score higher on tests then it's messing with my ability to provide for my family, which is ultimately more important to me. It would be difficult to keep good teachers in schools with high FARMS populations.

Kids are not just data points, as much as the education bigwigs and politicians (and even building level administrators) would like to have us believe.

Anonymous wrote:Regarding merit pay--I work in a high FARMS school and my friend works in a school with a very affluent population. We both teach the same grade. I plan for and instruct 6 reading groups in my class ranging from 3 years below grade level to 1 year above grade level. She plans for 3 reading groups and the lowest group is on grade level. Small group instruction in math has a similar breakdown.

I provide and document interventions for all of my students who are performing below grade level. I advocate for my students who are not responding to interventions to go to EMT and screening meetings, but often find the process stalled because the parents don't respond to meeting requests or say they'll come but don't show up.

I work with students during my lunchtime and run after school clubs (unpaid). I use my own money to pay for supplies and materials outside of the small amount that the school provides us with. When students come to school without supplies--I provide the supplies. We are also asked to contribute to school-wide activities like family breakfasts and raffle prizes out of our own pockets. My friend is provided with hundreds of dollars from the PTA in addition to the money the school budget provides, and they get all the books on their wishlist from the book fair.

The field trips we go on are local, and one of the most important factors in deciding where to go is cost. Many families are not able to pay $5 or $10 for a field trip. Field trips are great opportunities to build background knowledge for many concepts that the curriculum writers assume that all students have. My friend's school goes on field trips to interesting places outside of the county in which we live because they have parents who will pay the cost of the buses. Many students are experiencing these places for the second or third time because they have already been with their families.

All of this may sound like sour grapes, but I truly enjoy working at my school and subjectively and objectively I'm good at what I do. But our data and test scores are not even close to my friend's school. We teach from the same curriculum, but it's apples and oranges. My district doesn't care about progress. They don't care that my lowest students made 1 and a half years worth of growth last year. They are still below grade level and their scores are in the red zone. So ultimately I'm a failure in the district's eyes.

So if merit pay comes to my district I'm going to have to hightail it out of there and into a school where students meet and exceed proficiency just by coming to school and doing the work assigned. Because as much as I feel like I can make a difference where I am, if they start paying my friend more than they pay me because her students score higher on tests then it's messing with my ability to provide for my family, which is ultimately more important to me. It would be difficult to keep good teachers in schools with high FARMS populations.

Kids are not just data points, as much as the education bigwigs and politicians (and even building level administrators) would like to have us believe.

It's nice that you put in all that extra effort. To OP's point however, some kids are just assholes

Anonymous wrote:

Former teacher here. Many times those kids either have a neurodevelopmental issue that isn't getting proper intervention such as ADHD or there is major home stress such as an ill parent, father abandoned family or abuse. I found it rare a kid was just evil. I would not call any kid a jackass even privately. Adjusting your attitude toward the student and trying to figure out the underlying issue might help you manage the student

I also am a former teacher--but I taught primary grades. I did teach kids with serious problems and I would never call them jackasses (the parents, maybe!)
However, it sounds like the teacher who made the comment probably taught older kids. That is likely tougher.

The most serious problem child I taught--and I taught many over the years--had been sexually molested. She was in first grade and her mom was 20 years old. The mom did the best she knew how--but she was a child, herself. The little girl was a constant challenge. Constant. I felt very sorry for her and did the best I knew to help her--but I also began to resent her because of how she was impacting all the other kids in the class. If you have not seen this, it is very difficult to understand. She poked, hit, screamed, etc.etc. In the classroom, I had to keep her by my side most of the time.
She belonged in an ED class--but it would have required an hour bus ride and the school system felt that would not be good for her. The LD teacher took her out of my class for an hour a day, even though she did not yet fall into the "federal formula" for LD service. I had taught for a number of years in challenging situations, but this child was, by far, the most difficult challenge I ever had.

Anonymous wrote:

Former teacher here. Many times those kids either have a neurodevelopmental issue that isn't getting proper intervention such as ADHD or there is major home stress such as an ill parent, father abandoned family or abuse. I found it rare a kid was just evil. I would not call any kid a jackass even privately. Adjusting your attitude toward the student and trying to figure out the underlying issue might help you manage the student

I also am a former teacher--but I taught primary grades. I did teach kids with serious problems and I would never call them jackasses (the parents, maybe!)
However, it sounds like the teacher who made the comment probably taught older kids. That is likely tougher.

The most serious problem child I taught--and I taught many over the years--had been sexually molested. She was in first grade and her mom was 20 years old. The mom did the best she knew how--but she was a child, herself. The little girl was a constant challenge. Constant. I felt very sorry for her and did the best I knew to help her--but I also began to resent her because of how she was impacting all the other kids in the class. If you have not seen this, it is very difficult to understand. She poked, hit, screamed, etc.etc. In the classroom, I had to keep her by my side most of the time.
She belonged in an ED class--but it would have required an hour bus ride and the school system felt that would not be good for her. The LD teacher took her out of my class for an hour a day, even though she did not yet fall into the "federal formula" for LD service. I had taught for a number of years in challenging situations, but this child was, by far, the most difficult challenge I ever had.

Former teacher here. Many times those kids either have a neurodevelopmental issue that isn't getting proper intervention such as ADHD or there is major home stress such as an ill parent, father abandoned family or abuse. I found it rare a kid was just evil. I would not call any kid a jackass even privately. Adjusting your attitude toward the student and trying to figure out the underlying issue might help you manage the student

Anonymous wrote:I was one of those who left citing "dissatisfaction" with the profession. What I hated was the lack of support from the administration on discipline issues. Every year I'd get one or two jackasses who wanted to make me miserable for unknown reasons. The kind of kid who never stops talking and distracting their neighbors, gives you attitude, refuses to cooperate or do the work, tells you to fuck off. The kind of kid you used to be able to kick out of your class but now have to keep because the admin doesn't want to be involved. It was bullshit and eventually I just had enough abuse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think a lot of it is probably the lack of growth/advancement opportunities. It's a good job straight out of school compared to what is available, but when you are five years in and see your friends starting to get promotions and raises it starts to feel like you are missing out. I think it would be good if schools had positions like "senior teacher" where you get paid more and get more admin resources, to give younger teachers something to work towards

I am a team leader at my school but there is no extra pay for it and we aren't given a lighter class load either. We rotate the job every year because it is exhausting. School districts just don't have the money for this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm curious what are the experiences of teachers at TJ or Sidwell - i.e. places with 'self-selecting' student bodies.

Is teacher satisfaction up super high in those schools?

At private schools, teachers are paid MUCH less and the jobs usually don't come with benefits. In addition, sometimes you have to deal with pushy parents, etc. However, the class sizes are reasonable, the resources are better, and the students tend to be better behaved.

I worked at a school similar to TJ/Blair. It had it's own challenges, but all the students were well behaved in class and generally wanted to learn. The hours were still long Jobs at the "best" schools tend to be harder to get and pull the top teachers away from schools that have more challenges.