Anonymous wrote:Makeup's oppressive in this heat, am I right or what?

Fixed it for you.

Makeup's oppressive in this heat, am I right or what?

[imghttp://images.luuux.com/0000F93F7A608588DF2E6B52C831B844/middle/Melting.jpg[/img]

Anonymous wrote:Is makeup another tool for oppressing women?

Think about it. Common knowledge says that women's natural skin and features are not good enough to be presented in society. Thus, she must cover, conceal,enhance and beautify her face.

There are women who genuinely believe that makeup is a choice and they do it "for themselves."

Well,

OP you're "oppressed" only if someone is doing something TO YOU that you are helpless to change.

This is such fucking bullshit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish you would have been more diplomatic, PP, but I agree with you. I support women's rights to make decisions for themselves first and foremost, but grit my teeth at this pablum about "feeling more confident" and "doing it for myself" when all they are doing is supporting the patriarchal doctrine that women's faces (bodies, hair, breasts) are not beautiful in their natural and unaltered form. Women should feel confident because of their accomplishments and abilities, not their makeup or how their breasts look.

You, even being somewhat more diplomatic than our militantly unwell friend, are still off-base. Yes, I shave my legs and underarms (when I bother to) basically because society says I should. But part of that is self-maintenance. Where do you draw the line? What's acceptable to you and Ms. Militant? Is shampoo acceptable? Is conditioner over the top because we don't really need it? Should pixie cuts be mandatory lest some woman feel pretty with shoulder length hair? Is my plucking my full beard acceptable, or do I need to be one of the uncommon women who just has a beard because only "society" deems it unacceptable? Is wearing a bra bad in your minds because you think I want my H's to look better or because I don't want a sweat rash and an aching back at the end of the day. Does my wearing makeup for myself mean more to you because I'm a SAHM and, legitimately, no one but my children usually sees me until 5:00 pm? Is it alright with you if I carve out this adult ritual as something separate and apart just for from changing diapers, wiping noses, cleaning and playing children's games, or am I still a sheep brainwashed and made dumb by the patriarchy?

You may have made your argument more eloquently, but you're both still condescending, rude and full of assumptions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know if I'd call it oppressive, but it's absolutely true that in cultures where women have less power, they wear more makeup. Women in highly patriarchal societies (and parts of the U.S.) are more likely to wear much more makeup. It becomes one more way women compete to snag a man, in order to establish social status. Some examples: the Bible Belt south, Italy, Mexico, Japan. Some examples of more egalitarian and less made up places: liberal arts colleges, Scandinavia, Canada, blue states in general.

I guess the continent of Africa kind of throws your theory out the window.

Yeah, they have to have their clitorises removed to be considered marriageable. not oppressive at all. Just substitute whatever body modification you wish - foot binding, plastic surgery, corsets, makeup, high heels, the thighmaster, and so on --women having to undergo painful or uncomfortable or time consuming procedures or fashions to be atttractive. seriously people, this is anthropology 101

You're seriously equating shit like foot binding and genital mutilation with makeup and high heels and Seen On TV bs exercise machines?

The fact that you can't see the relationship between all of these things shows your ignorance.

Either you're a super dedicated troll, or you actually believe all the bs you're spouting. Either way, I'm only posting reaction memes to your nonsense, because that's the level of discourse you deserve.

I am not the PP who talked about corsets, etc., but your reaction memes are the only level of discourse you can rise to. If you can't see that makeup and plastic surgery are on the continuum with other procedures women have endured due to narrow perceptions of female beauty, then, yes, you are stupid. Makeup is not physically painful for most (allergies aside) but it represents the same idea. Women must be altered to be beautiful.

Anonymous wrote:is make up "oppressive"? bahahahhaaa!!!!

bahahahhaaa is oppressive too.

stop it.

I don't think it's insulting or judgmental to point out that women do not freely choose to wear makeup. They do this is the context of real consequences of refusing to adhere to a certain standard of beauty.

I am pretty with "good" skin, but without makeup, my face looks pretty plain. I wear light makeup (really light makeup - tinted moisturizer + blush + lipstick) to work and to social events because I think I look more attractive and feel more confident with it. I think people who do not know me respond to me more positively when I wear makeup.

I periodically reread Leandra Medine's blog post on why she doesn't wear makeup, even after being called "ugly as fuck" and wonder if I am brave enough to go without makeup:

“Makeup is meant to enhance the natural beauty of a woman, Leandra, so, really, why wouldn’t you use it?”

I contemplated her question for a moment but frankly, the answer is simple.

I’m not making a statement. I’m not trying to act like the most extreme, hyper-literal and violent version of a man repeller. If you read this site you know by now that Man Repelling is an attitude. It is a state of existence. It is not whether you do your hair or curl your lashes, or even what you wear. It is how you approach doing those things. Why you do those things, and perhaps most importantly, it is a love letter to individuality, which is something that manifests itself in plentifully different ways.

So the reason I don’t wear makeup is because I am lazy. And don’t get me wrong — I am as much a sucker for the newest “anti-aging miracle cream” as the next guy. Just because I don’t wear much makeup doesn’t mean I don’t believe in good skin. I want to know that if I don’t wash my face, I won’t tarnish my pillow. I don’t want to see the ingredients that constructed my previous night’s visage wiped off into a towel. I also read somewhere that if you sleep with mascara on your lashes they are 70% more likely to fall out so as far as I’m concerned, maintaining real lashes that aren’t quite as plump as they can be is ten times more compelling than having none at all.

More important than that though, I am comfortable with how I look. I don’t hate what I see when I look in the mirror. Even if legions of others don’t agree. I have accepted the reflection that reliably bounces back at me for its perks and its flaws. I understand that there are thick, dark circles under my eyes. I have grown to appreciate them. I have noticed that my nose grows a little hookier on a near-monthly basis. That’s fine. I know there are wrinkles ready to stake their claim as full time residents on my forehead any moment now. My dad has those, too, and I find that endearing.

My eyes will never be blue, my bone structure will never allow for you to mistake me for a Scandinavian model. I am who I am and even if that infers “ugly as fuck,” I think it’s, I don’t know, beautiful.

http://www.manrepeller.com/2014/04/why-i-dont-wear-makeup.html

One can enjoy makeup and understand marketing. If you look back through history, women didn't start using clothes and makeup to look a certain way only after fashion magazines told them to do it.

If you'd like to see how much fun makeup can be, I suggest you check out some of Kevin Aucoin's books.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish you would have been more diplomatic, PP, but I agree with you. I support women's rights to make decisions for themselves first and foremost, but grit my teeth at this pablum about "feeling more confident" and "doing it for myself" when all they are doing is supporting the patriarchal doctrine that women's faces (bodies, hair, breasts) are not beautiful in their natural and unaltered form. Women should feel confident because of their accomplishments and abilities, not their makeup or how their breasts look.

You, even being somewhat more diplomatic than our militantly unwell friend, are still off-base. Yes, I shave my legs and underarms (when I bother to) basically because society says I should. But part of that is self-maintenance. Where do you draw the line? What's acceptable to you and Ms. Militant? Is shampoo acceptable? Is conditioner over the top because we don't really need it? Should pixie cuts be mandatory lest some woman feel pretty with shoulder length hair? Is my plucking my full beard acceptable, or do I need to be one of the uncommon women who just has a beard because only "society" deems it unacceptable? Is wearing a bra bad in your minds because you think I want my H's to look better or because I don't want a sweat rash and an aching back at the end of the day. Does my wearing makeup for myself mean more to you because I'm a SAHM and, legitimately, no one but my children usually sees me until 5:00 pm? Is it alright with you if I carve out this adult ritual as something separate and apart just for from changing diapers, wiping noses, cleaning and playing children's games, or am I still a sheep brainwashed and made dumb by the patriarchy?

You may have made your argument more eloquently, but you're both still condescending, rude and full of assumptions.

I love it! I'm militant and unwell because I can see that all of this shit is on a continuum? You people are hilarious and really really defensive. You honestly don't get the difference between basic hygiene and all the beauty industry bullshit we really don't need? How is pointing out this obvious thing rude or condescending? I have touched a very sensitive nerve. Really, step back and think about it.

Anonymous wrote:I wish you would have been more diplomatic, PP, but I agree with you. I support women's rights to make decisions for themselves first and foremost, but grit my teeth at this pablum about "feeling more confident" and "doing it for myself" when all they are doing is supporting the patriarchal doctrine that women's faces (bodies, hair, breasts) are not beautiful in their natural and unaltered form. Women should feel confident because of their accomplishments and abilities, not their makeup or how their breasts look.

You, even being somewhat more diplomatic than our militantly unwell friend, are still off-base. Yes, I shave my legs and underarms (when I bother to) basically because society says I should. But part of that is self-maintenance. Where do you draw the line? What's acceptable to you and Ms. Militant? Is shampoo acceptable? Is conditioner over the top because we don't really need it? Should pixie cuts be mandatory lest some woman feel pretty with shoulder length hair? Is my plucking my full beard acceptable, or do I need to be one of the uncommon women who just has a beard because only "society" deems it unacceptable? Is wearing a bra bad in your minds because you think I want my H's to look better or because I don't want a sweat rash and an aching back at the end of the day. Does my wearing makeup for myself mean more to you because I'm a SAHM and, legitimately, no one but my children usually sees me until 5:00 pm? Is it alright with you if I carve out this adult ritual as something separate and apart just for from changing diapers, wiping noses, cleaning and playing children's games, or am I still a sheep brainwashed and made dumb by the patriarchy?

You may have made your argument more eloquently, but you're both still condescending, rude and full of assumptions.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
You're not nuts, but you aren't making a great argument, and you [i]still[/i] can't make a point without insulting a group of well-educated women. No one is lashing out in a defensive way, we're telling you that your argument isn't good if you can't make it without calling us sheep.

- a rare soul[/quote]

The fact that my argument is insulting to you, i.e., that you are sheep who refuse to see the reality of what you do to yourselves, doesn't make it bad or wrong. Change is hard, I know. Accepting that you make bad choices is hard. Learn about marketing and get back to me.[/quote]

Omfg. You're mental.

I wish you would have been more diplomatic, PP, but I agree with you. I support women's rights to make decisions for themselves first and foremost, but grit my teeth at this pablum about "feeling more confident" and "doing it for myself" when all they are doing is supporting the patriarchal doctrine that women's faces (bodies, hair, breasts) are not beautiful in their natural and unaltered form. Women should feel confident because of their accomplishments and abilities, not their makeup or how their breasts look.

[quote=Anonymous]
You're not nuts, but you aren't making a great argument, and you [i]still[/i] can't make a point without insulting a group of well-educated women. No one is lashing out in a defensive way, we're telling you that your argument isn't good if you can't make it without calling us sheep.

- a rare soul[/quote]

The fact that my argument is insulting to you, i.e., that you are sheep who refuse to see the reality of what you do to yourselves, doesn't make it bad or wrong. Change is hard, I know. Accepting that you make bad choices is hard. Learn about marketing and get back to me.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I love how women talk about something being oppressive while they sit back and tell other women about how they are incapable of making their own decisions about it.

How about I have my own makeup preferences and trust other women can make a decision that suits them? [/quote]

+1

a bunch of privileged women with every choice in the world are complaining about make-up (which is used voluntarily) being oppressive.

Hint: we're not oppressed. [/quote]

You really don't get it. You have been fed a line of bullshit for your entire life that you must look a certain way to be valued as a woman. You have bought it hook-line-and-sinker. You can't see that you are making decisions based on faulty information designed only to get you to spend money on products you don't need. Unless you can acknowledge the influence of the culture you live in and the messages you have been surrounded by and influenced by your whole life prior to making your decision, you are deluding yourself.

If you can acknowledge that it is unfair to tell women that it is not acceptable to appear in public without "correcting" all these "flaws" with makeup and other products and then say, "but I know this and decide to go along with it", then you aren't truly making your own decision about it. Educate yourself and try some introspection.

And if you truly get it and still *decide* that this is what you want for *yourself*, you would not feel the need to insult those who *decide* for *themselves* not to wear makeup or use other products as "ugly", "frumpy" or any other derogatory names, as many have done on this thread. The minute you do that, you reveal that you are truly sucked in to the oppressive, yes oppressive, messages about narrow standards of acceptable beauty for women.[/quote]
Jesus! Enjoying makeup does not mean I'm deluded or oppressed. You sound a little nuts.

Is there anything related to fashion that you actually enjoy? [/quote]

Yes, clothing and makeup can be art!

It is not fashion and makeup themselves that are the problem. It is the narrow-minded rules about what is attractive or not, the idea that women must wear makeup or they are "letting themselves go" or the idea that without makeup you are automatically unattractive that I object to. I think there may be a few rare souls out there who truly wear makeup because they just like it, but [b]most are doing it out of insecurities foisted on them by the beauty industry[/b]. Worst of all, it is other women who are the worst judges/critics of other women and the worst about upholding the narrow standards of beauty. Most men I know could really give two shits whether women wear makeup or not.

And if you try to point out to these women that makeup is part of all these messages, they do as PP did above; they just say you sound nuts. I'm not nuts; [b]I'm just not ignorant about the messages around me. [/b] It is really hard to admit when someone calls you out on being ignorant. Reaction is usually defensive and then lashing out. Just look at this thread.

[/quote]

You're not nuts, but you aren't making a great argument, and you [i]still[/i] can't make a point without insulting a group of well-educated women. No one is lashing out in a defensive way, we're telling you that your argument isn't good if you can't make it without calling us sheep.

- a rare soul

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I love how women talk about something being oppressive while they sit back and tell other women about how they are incapable of making their own decisions about it.

How about I have my own makeup preferences and trust other women can make a decision that suits them? [/quote]

+1

a bunch of privileged women with every choice in the world are complaining about make-up (which is used voluntarily) being oppressive.

Hint: we're not oppressed. [/quote]

You really don't get it. You have been fed a line of bullshit for your entire life that you must look a certain way to be valued as a woman. You have bought it hook-line-and-sinker. You can't see that you are making decisions based on faulty information designed only to get you to spend money on products you don't need. Unless you can acknowledge the influence of the culture you live in and the messages you have been surrounded by and influenced by your whole life prior to making your decision, you are deluding yourself.

If you can acknowledge that it is unfair to tell women that it is not acceptable to appear in public without "correcting" all these "flaws" with makeup and other products and then say, "but I know this and decide to go along with it", then you aren't truly making your own decision about it. Educate yourself and try some introspection.

And if you truly get it and still *decide* that this is what you want for *yourself*, you would not feel the need to insult those who *decide* for *themselves* not to wear makeup or use other products as "ugly", "frumpy" or any other derogatory names, as many have done on this thread. The minute you do that, you reveal that you are truly sucked in to the oppressive, yes oppressive, messages about narrow standards of acceptable beauty for women.[/quote]
Jesus! Enjoying makeup does not mean I'm deluded or oppressed. You sound a little nuts.

Is there anything related to fashion that you actually enjoy? [/quote]

Yes, clothing and makeup can be art!

It is not fashion and makeup themselves that are the problem. It is the narrow-minded rules about what is attractive or not, the idea that women must wear makeup or they are "letting themselves go" or the idea that without makeup you are automatically unattractive that I object to. I think there may be a few rare souls out there who truly wear makeup because they just like it, but most are doing it out of insecurities foisted on them by the beauty industry. Worst of all, it is other women who are the worst judges/critics of other women and the worst about upholding the narrow standards of beauty. Most men I know could really give two shits whether women wear makeup or not.

And if you try to point out to these women that makeup is part of all these messages, they do as PP did above; they just say you sound nuts. I'm not nuts; I'm just not ignorant about the messages around me. It is really hard to admit when someone calls you out on being ignorant. Reaction is usually defensive and then lashing out. Just look at this thread.