Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. A lifetime of not having to prove how smart you are...especially important for women.

2. Some organizations only higher Ivies (especially in high-level finance and top law firms)

3. You never have to apologize for where you went.
(For example...why would you go to Bates and pay private tuition when a great state university would be cheaper/better).

4. If you have to ask...

I don't think even the whitest of white shoe firms cares THAT much about where you did your undergraduate if you went to a top-ranked law school. You are right that there are firms that recruit exclusively from the top 5 or so law schools, but if you do well at Stanford or Yale Law, it's not going to matter that you got your undergraduate degree at Oberlin instead of Brown.

This. Law school and class rank are all that matter.

My Ivy degrees (2) allow me to comment with complete smugness on many DCUM threads!!

And realize generalizations are generally ridiculous sounding. All the Ivys provide opportunities for their students - major research institutions, all the amenities you think you should expect at a college (some have majors or tracks within that mimic SLAC like experiences, some other areas/classes might have 500 kids like a big state school), a certain reputation and cache in certain circles (not in others - and there are some friend cliques that solidify forever), some fields and employers where the degree counts more than others. That said, from my freshman hallway (having been on the recent facebook reunion page) - there's a yoga teacher, a top firm lawyer, a major CEO, a stay at home mom, non profit execs, middling managers, etc.
Overall, lots and lots of options and opportunities for experiences and classes etc while you are there with many of the top profs in the world. Can give you boosts to reach for the stars in a particular way of elitist culture... but certainly not a uniform thing.

And, there's still the DCUM thing

To answer the OP's original scenario, the Harvard student will, compared to the Bucknell student, encounter:

* Smarter peers (as measured by HS GPA and SAT/ACT)
* More famous faculty
* Nicer facilities
* Much better OCR opportunities.
* A significant minority of people will be impressed by his credentials.

The last point needs some explanation. As an Ivy grad, I find most people, especially potential employers, are not impressed by the credential on its own. But a minority ARE. This has helped me greatly, as I've gotten jobs largely on the strength of the name on my degree, even despite some major black marks on my resume.

To return to the question in the title, if we move beyond the Harvard vs. Bucknell comparison, there's nothing magical about being in the Ivy League. There are non-Ivy schools as good as some Ivy schools. HYP may be in a class of their own (arguably), but if you compare Penn and JHU or Columbia and U Chicago, things are much more even.

Another issue is that some of the Ivies (notably Harvard) don't have that great an undergraduate teaching ethos. That's okay, many non-Ivies (JHU comes to mind) and state universities don't either. This isn't so much about Ivies vs. non-Ivies as about research universities vs. liberal arts colleges.

My experience is significantly different than others on this board. I am a scientist -- with a PhD. My BS was from a large state school; my PhD was from a smaller program but with an excellent advisor.

My field has about 400 people total; I know them all, and they know me. I see really good people that graduated from lousy schools and really mediocre people from Caltech or MIT.

The nice thing about the sciences, is the reputation is based on what you have done and not who you know.

Anonymous wrote:Connections. My DC at an ivy, was as to land a great internship after freshman year with an alumn .

*able to

Connections. My DC at an ivy, was as to land a great internship after freshman year with an alumn .

Yes but to get into top 10 law school it helps to come from a top twenty college or university. Ofourse you must have good grades and scores, but law schools do look at where an undergraduate comes from.

My experience is that schools with big endowments, including the Ivies, provide a lot more opportunties for their students including univeristy stipends for internships, financial support for study abroad, etc.

Also school with active committed alumni are a big help.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. A lifetime of not having to prove how smart you are...especially important for women.

2. Some organizations only higher Ivies (especially in high-level finance and top law firms)

3. You never have to apologize for where you went.
(For example...why would you go to Bates and pay private tuition when a great state university would be cheaper/better).

4. If you have to ask...

I don't think even the whitest of white shoe firms cares THAT much about where you did your undergraduate if you went to a top-ranked law school. You are right that there are firms that recruit exclusively from the top 5 or so law schools, but if you do well at Stanford or Yale Law, it's not going to matter that you got your undergraduate degree at Oberlin instead of Brown.

This. Law school and class rank are all that matter.

Anonymous wrote:My DH went to Yale undergrad and I went to JMU with the plebes. We met in (the same) law school and have equivalent careers. It doesn't seem like the huge cost difference for undergrad is really worth it.

plebs* (plebe is a different word)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Immediate, comprehensive, universal access. Different to such a degree that those who did not graduate from an Ivy or something very, very close really do not understand.

I went to Harvard. I don't understand. I guess I slept through the lecture on the secret handshake.

I think pp was joking.

See? That Harvard education is useless. I missed the humor seminar, too.

Ironically, if you want to be a TV comedy writer, a few mediocre Harvard Lampoon pieces can get you on a top sitcom or SNL right out of undergrad and set you up for life. Trying doing *that* out of any other school!

Anonymous wrote:"My DH went to Yale undergrad and I went to JMU with the plebes. We met in (the same) law school and have equivalent careers. It doesn't seem like the huge cost difference for undergrad is really worth it."

Have you ever considered the idea that you are smarter than your husband? Maybe a lot smarter. Some people just never understand their true abilities. They don't always show up in grades or test scores.

My guess is he needed the Yale leg up to keep up with you. If you had gone to Yale, you might be surprised where you would have ended up.

I too have a JMU like undergraduate degree. My graduate and academic career often surprises people given what they see as my humble beginnings.

Eventually, if they actually get to know me, they find out that I flunked out of an Ivy and you can almost see the light bulb go on over their heads.

Project much? Sorry you didn't make it at your Ivy, but maybe you need to get over it and stop suggesting that other people haven't lived up to their potential because they didn't attend an ivy, but are secretly brilliant.

"My DH went to Yale undergrad and I went to JMU with the plebes. We met in (the same) law school and have equivalent careers. It doesn't seem like the huge cost difference for undergrad is really worth it."

Have you ever considered the idea that you are smarter than your husband? Maybe a lot smarter. Some people just never understand their true abilities. They don't always show up in grades or test scores.

My guess is he needed the Yale leg up to keep up with you. If you had gone to Yale, you might be surprised where you would have ended up.

I too have a JMU like undergraduate degree. My graduate and academic career often surprises people given what they see as my humble beginnings.

Eventually, if they actually get to know me, they find out that I flunked out of an Ivy and you can almost see the light bulb go on over their heads.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Connections.

Will someone please explain these "connections". Are there really employers where everyone went to the same school and they only hire people from that school?

No they mean what your buddies end up doing later in life.

Even with the ivies I think nI it matters which one wrt quality of peer group. I went to Cornell. I wouldn't say my peer group is particularly famous or that well connected.

Anonymous wrote:West Pointers and Navy grads are better than anything the Ivys produce? Why? They are taught to be leaders? They also are taught to realize that success or failure will come from how well you work with the man or woman to your left or right. I've heard at the Ivies, esp. Harvard, there is a degree of cutthroat competition where students will actually engage in a bit of schadenfreude at the failure of a classmate or friend. We did a tour of Harvard and one student said she loves the school but hates her classmates.

I'd like to believe this, being patriotic and all, but the former West Pointers and Navy grads I've come across in the private sector have been pretty average. They haven't stood out as leaders, and have tended to be quite linear and a bit at bay if they aren't given very specific instructions on how to do a task.

The Ivy Leaguers, on the other hand, are pretty much as described elsewhere. Some are terrible BSers and wash out quickly. However, others are incredibly smart and hard-working.

My DH went to Yale undergrad and I went to JMU with the plebes. We met in (the same) law school and have equivalent careers. It doesn't seem like the huge cost difference for undergrad is really worth it.