University or Rochester provides merit dollars, no application required. It's a gem of a school if location is not a priority.

Ohio University (Athens Ohio) It's lovely. It's liberal, perhaps similar enough in that regard to UVM. Five hour drive from DMV or nonstop from BWI to Columbus and the university will pick the student up. Great honors program, business school, communications, fine arts, etc.

Bumping this thread to see if anyone can answer my original question. I'm the OP

I re-read the entire thread, and the only two schools that posters reported offered $30K in merit aid were Oberlin and College of Wooster.

I don't see any publics other than Arkansas (not for DC) offering enough merit aid to match IS. Any other suggestions?

BTW, DC loves UVM. But merit aid seems scarce there, esp. if you are not a top student.

Did your kid get more than $30K in merit at a private?
Or enough merit to match IS at a public?

If so, which schools?

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Anonymous wrote:Almost all of the smaller liberal arts colleges (think Beloit, Denison, Wheaton, Hope, Eckard, etc.) offer substantial merit aid once you get below Williams and Amherst. Among larger universities, Washington Univ in St Louis and GWU are known to spread the merit aid pretty widely to boost their yields. These merit awards don't often require super stellar grades and scores. It's really just a way to fill the freshman class.

Does Washington University have trouble filling the freshman class? I find that hard to believe.

I don't think Wash U is doing much merit aid now - maybe 20 years ago.

And OPs kid isn't likely to get in with low scores. They are very score conscious. My DC was recruited for sports and the coach wanted her to take the SATs again because her scores were only 2180.

Division 3 schools don't recruit for sports. Wash U. is a Division 3 school.

They do it unofficially. My DD was recruited at a top slac. No merit money, though. But she was definitely recruited. Also, a neighbor's kid was recruited and accepted early for a sport at an Ivy. It's BS that they don't recruit!! They dont' give money, though!!

D3 and Ivy League schools openly and officially recruit athletes. They do not give money. The athletes trade their athletic ability for admission to a school where perhaps they may not easily get into otherwise. The majority of my child's high level travel team were recruited to and are going to a top ranked D3/SLAC or IVY to play their sport.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Almost all of the smaller liberal arts colleges (think Beloit, Denison, Wheaton, Hope, Eckard, etc.) offer substantial merit aid once you get below Williams and Amherst. Among larger universities, Washington Univ in St Louis and GWU are known to spread the merit aid pretty widely to boost their yields. These merit awards don't often require super stellar grades and scores. It's really just a way to fill the freshman class.

Does Washington University have trouble filling the freshman class? I find that hard to believe.

I don't think Wash U is doing much merit aid now - maybe 20 years ago.

And OPs kid isn't likely to get in with low scores. They are very score conscious. My DC was recruited for sports and the coach wanted her to take the SATs again because her scores were only 2180.

Division 3 schools don't recruit for sports. Wash U. is a Division 3 school.

They do it unofficially. My DD was recruited at a top slac. No merit money, though. But she was definitely recruited. Also, a neighbor's kid was recruited and accepted early for a sport at an Ivy. It's BS that they don't recruit!! They dont' give money, though!!

This is where we are, and we have four kids. We cannot pay $60K or whatever the EFC says. We can't. We're not crying poor. It's the cost of private colleges that's too high. In-state, we can and will pay. If OOS costs were lower, we'd have a lot more options for DC. If private tuitions were lower, we'd also have a lot more options.

The private SLACs we've visited seem outrageously outfitted. They have these gigantic sports complexes that cost $40 million, arts buildings that cost $60 million -- why?? If they didn't spend so much $$ on these expensive buildings, which do not add anything to the actual education they offer, they could charge reasonable tuition, allowing middle class kids like mine to attend. As it is, they are getting rich kids and poor kids, but the middle class are out. If that's what they want, fine. But it's not diverse, nor is it representative of the US. And isn't it the middle class that adds stability to most communities, including colleges?

PP you are joining thousands of "too rich for FA, too poor for full pay" families around here. One of the reasons UMD is on the rise is thanks to increase COA of private colleges. Families (particularly with multiple kids) have limited options and forced to look at IS schools.

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Anonymous wrote:DS is a junior. We're starting the college search. We don't qualify for FA, but can't afford more than $25K per year.

He's applying in-state, but wants a few more options. (3.87 unweighted gpa, but poor PSAT math scores, probably English/theater major). He's considering East Coast schools that offer merit aid like Juniata, Ursinus, U Vermont, Allegheny, Lesley, Fairfield, Muhlenberg, Mary Washington, Saint Michael's, Clark, Washington College (MD), College of New Jersey, etc.

BUT, I'm wondering, has ANYONE with similar stats received more than $30K in merit aid at any of these or similar private colleges? Anyone received in-state price at public OOS schools?

I don't want to waste our time applying if there's no hope that merit aid awards will bring DS's cost down to around $25K.

Thanks!

Wrong approach. You need to apply and let it play out.

Worst advice EVER.

How so?

Generally speaking, people with family incomes north of $180k (i.e., DCUM "middle class) and two kids will receive ZERO financial aid. Let me say that again: ZERO. The cost to attend college will be in the neighborhood of $60k per year unless the student goes to an in-state public or an OOS public with reasonable OOS tuition (i.e, not Michigan, UVA, W&M, or any UC), or unless the student is awarded merit aid by a private college that gives merit aid. (Most of the USNWR top-rated schools give financial aid only, no merit aid.)

Estimate your expected family contribution using the on-line estimator and look at that number closely. It's likely a low-ball of what colleges will expect you to pay. If you can't afford that number, it's time to take a good, hard, realistic look at where your kid can go to college. If you can't afford your EFC, your kid should not waste any time looking at Ivy League schools and their ilk.

This is where we are, and we have four kids. We cannot pay $60K or whatever the EFC says. We can't. We're not crying poor. It's the cost of private colleges that's too high. In-state, we can and will pay. If OOS costs were lower, we'd have a lot more options for DC. If private tuitions were lower, we'd also have a lot more options.

The private SLACs we've visited seem outrageously outfitted. They have these gigantic sports complexes that cost $40 million, arts buildings that cost $60 million -- why?? If they didn't spend so much $$ on these expensive buildings, which do not add anything to the actual education they offer, they could charge reasonable tuition, allowing middle class kids like mine to attend. As it is, they are getting rich kids and poor kids, but the middle class are out. If that's what they want, fine. But it's not diverse, nor is it representative of the US. And isn't it the middle class that adds stability to most communities, including colleges?

If your kid wants to go OOS what about public OOS? My DD got merit aid from Rutgers, Penn State and Temple. Because these schools are cheaper than private, with the merit aid it was about the same as in state. Her scores were high but didn't have high grades.

I've heard Univ of S. Carolina gives good merit aid also.

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Anonymous wrote:Op, you ask a very reasonable question. With the same uw GPA and 710 math as a STEM major, DD got 1/2 OOS tuition at a flagship public and 1/3 off at a STEM focused private. Those were 2 very good (money) results out of 10. We would never have been able to anticipate the end results, so I'd advise to apply widely. Just make sure DC has financial safeties from which to choose. A problem your DC will have is Theatre is such a competitive major, students are lucky to get into the major at all.

Hmmm. Thank you. Good to know. DS is thinking of coming up with something different than a straight theater major to differentiate himself. But it's good to know there may be some OOS options. The problem for us is our budget is capped at $25K per year, so 1/3 off a private is not going to be enough. sigh.

Why is your budget capped at 25K per year? Will your child take out loans to move the 25K max? Will you get any FA?

Not eligible for FA. Won't take out loans or let our kids take out loans. So our kids go in-state or OOS with merit aid. Just trying to find OOS options, should there be any, for DC#2.

Everyone takes out loans...I still have 60K! That's the reality of being a millennial.

OP here. We are not "everyone." We will not take out loans. I do not want my kids saddled with huge debt when they graduate. DC#1 was admitted to several prestigious colleges, but since we're not eligible for FA, DC#1 did not go to any of them. In-state is the most affordable option, but not the only one. A friend's child got a free ride at an OOS flagship, so I know it's possible.

There is a difference between being "saddled" with loans and your child making an informed decision to take out a reasonable amount of loans per year to attend a college that is a good fit for the profession he wants to pursue.

A much better approach in my opinion is to have many conversations with your child to make sure he understands that if he is going to pursue acting his expected earnings are "x", and that can buy "y" types of lifestyle. One if the most valuable discussions my father had with me as I was looking at colleges was how much each profession pays and what that means for the lifestyle I will live, including paying back student loans. Based on those discussions I decided I didn't want to be a history teacher because the return on investment was low, instead I went to an expensive college (with loans) and pursued a career with a high return rate. My 40k in student loans were no big deal because I'm in a high paying profession. If I decided I really wanted to be a history I knew what schools made sense financially given my future earnings.

Although my children are in elementary school I am already having that discussion with them so they understand risk/benefit tradeoffs.

Excellent post from another thread. I wish that I could take credit for it.

Lots of misinformation in this thread. Attempting to sort fact from fiction:

--There is a difference between financial aid and merit aid. Financial aid is based on the student’s need, as determined by the college/university (and often based on the FAFSA). Merit aid is based on merit, again as determined by the college/university. Obviously, what one college deems “meritorious” may not be considered out of the ordinary (or even acceptable) at another college.

--Most of the top-rated colleges & universities give *financial* aid only. This includes all Ivy League schools, as well as Stanford, MIT, CalTech, Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Middlebury. Some top-rated schools give a very small handful of students merit scholarships each year (e.g. Chicago, Duke, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Vanderbilt, Wash U, Rice, Notre Dame).

--Only about 60 colleges & universities in the US pledge to meet “100%” of students’ need (as determined by the school). Most of these schools are highly rated and accept only top students. Even among those schools that do meet full need, most of them meet that need with a combination of grants and loans. Only the following schools pledge to meet 100% of need without including loans in the aid package: Amherst, Bowdoin, Colby, Columbia, Connecticut College, Davidson, Franklin & Marshall, Olin, Harvard, Haverford, Pomona, Princeton, Stanford, Swarthmore, Penn, Vanderbilt, Washington & Lee, and Yale. (A handful of schools meet 100% of need without loans for lower income families: Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth, MIT, Rice, Chicago, UVA, Vassar, Wash U, Wellesley, Wesleyan). But note who is not on this list: Virtually every state university in the country. Almost every state U in the country includes loans in students' financial aid packages.

--All students can borrow money through the Stafford loan program, even if the financial aid package offered by the school doesn’t include loans—and even if the student doesn’t qualify for financial aid at all. So if a school offers a financial aid package that includes $3,000 “work study” or if the school deems that the family can pay $10k or $20k or $60k a year, the student/family can opt to borrow money to cover some or all of that amount. Under the Stafford loan program, dependent students can borrow (without a cosigner) up to $5500 freshman year, up to $6500 sophomore year, and up to $7500 junior year and beyond, for a maximum total amount of $31,000. For lower income families, a portion of the amount borrowed may be subsidized (i.e., no accrual of interested until after graduation). Students who want to borrow more money (beyond the Stafford limits) often can do so as long as they have a cosigner.

--For many students, attending a school that meets 100% need may be no more expensive—and may be cheaper—than attending an in-state public. This can be true even if the school is a pricey private that includes loans in the package, since most in-state publics (a) don’t meet 100% of need and (b) will include loans in their packages.

--For many students, attending a pricey private that doesn’t meet 100% need but does offer substantial merit scholarships may be no more expensive—and may be cheaper—than attending an in-state public. This will especially be true for students with good grades/test scores/etc. who also qualify for some financial aid.

--A student with a 31 ACT plus good (not necessarily great) grades in rigorous classes, and good (not necessarily great) activities will be a candidate for significant merit aid ($20k-$30k) at many mid-tier private schools, and some in-state and out-of-state publics as well. (Say, ranked 30+ on the USNWR university and SLAC rankings.) Again, for these students, attending a pricey private may be no more expensive than attending an in-state public.

You cannot rely on the calculators. You will only know after you have filed the FAFSA, the CSS and the IDOC. They will ask you for every possible bit of financial information, including all assets, debts, house information, car information, no. of kids, etc. The calculators can be of some help, but limited. Even on the calculator page it has spaces for gross income, income from other assets, no. of kids in college, divorced, remarried, etc.

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Anonymous wrote:We make more than 180K and our kids both got merit aid at decent LAC's. There's some formula you can find on College confidential.com that has to do with the size of the school's endowment, and it involves looking up the school's tax records, rather than going by what's on their websites. We're grateful that both of our children go to schools with really large endowment where there is extra money 'floating around' to finance summer internships in other cities, study abroad, etc. in addition to the merit aid.

The poster above is incorrect when she says not to even bother. There are some schools where something like 80 percent of the students receive some financial aid. That includes people at the upper ends as well as the lower ends. Particularly people with multiple kids in college at the same time.

You are conflating merit and (not need-based) and financial aid (purely need-based). If your HHI is >$180,000, then at some schools, it doesn't matter how fabulous a student you are - you will not get any need-based aid. These are the schools at the top of the USNWR rankings. Therefore the PP who says "don't even bother" is correct, because these schools will not give you any aid. None. Zilch. Zip.

If you go down those USNWR rankings, however, to lower-ranked schools that do give merit aid - not need-based; merit-based - then yes, you should look closely at your options. You could be a billionaire, but if your child is a high-performer who scored well on SATs/ACT, then those schools will give your child significant scholarship money.

By using the Net Price Calculator (NPC) for each of these schools, you can guesstimate what kind of merit aid your child is likely to get, and what the bottom line will be for you to pay for tuition, room and board.

It is true some top tier schools (Ivy schools mostly) do not offer merit aids but most schools DO have merit aids.

Please list top schools that give lots of merit. We all want our kids to apply there.

This entire chain is misinformed. Please look at the financial aid websites for the colleges that you are interested in. The person who claims that a HHI of $180k will receive none, zip, zilch in aid is just flat out wrong! At the end of the day, you don't care if it is need-based, merit aid, a partial athletic scholarship or prize money from the Miss America pageant; dollars are dollars. And arguably need-based dollars are more durable in that they are not linked to continued athletic participation or maintenance of a particular GPA. See the FACTS from the Harvard FA website below. Under their arrangement, a student from a family making $180k would receive roughly $45k per year in aid. This is not a typo and I know this to be the case, first hand.

The Basics
•Close to 60% of our undergraduates receive Harvard Scholarship.
•20% of our parents have total incomes less than $65,000 and are not expected to contribute.
•Families with incomes between $65,000 and $150,000 will contribute from 0-10% of their income, and those with incomes above $150,000 will be asked to pay proportionately more than 10%, based on their individual circumstances. Families at all income levels who have significant assets will continue to pay more than those in less fortunate circumstances

The total annual cost is roughly $65k. So, if the HHI is $180k then the family pays 10% on the first $150k ($15k) plus 15% of the next $30k ($4.5k), for a total family contribution of just less than $20k. 65-20=45.

I think your post using Harvard as an example is misleading. People who follow colleges know Harvard is an unique case along with very few (and highly selective) need blind schools. Using Harvard (or one of the need blind schools) as an example will put families down the wrong path. My two cents.

Earlier poster is pretty clear that none of the schools at the top of the USNW rankings would provide any aid at $180k HHI. You now have four examples that disprove this (Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford). Walking away with his/her conclusion that one should "not even bother" is much more dangerous and misleading than the PP's advice to sort through the specifics at the schools of interest.

Stanford, Yale, and Princeton have pretty similar formulas for determination of family contribution. This is not surprising as they see themselves as direct competitors. So perhaps the second half of the top 50 is less generous. The very top seems to want to make economics not the deciding factor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We make more than 180K and our kids both got merit aid at decent LAC's. There's some formula you can find on College confidential.com that has to do with the size of the school's endowment, and it involves looking up the school's tax records, rather than going by what's on their websites. We're grateful that both of our children go to schools with really large endowment where there is extra money 'floating around' to finance summer internships in other cities, study abroad, etc. in addition to the merit aid.

The poster above is incorrect when she says not to even bother. There are some schools where something like 80 percent of the students receive some financial aid. That includes people at the upper ends as well as the lower ends. Particularly people with multiple kids in college at the same time.

You are conflating merit and (not need-based) and financial aid (purely need-based). If your HHI is >$180,000, then at some schools, it doesn't matter how fabulous a student you are - you will not get any need-based aid. These are the schools at the top of the USNWR rankings. Therefore the PP who says "don't even bother" is correct, because these schools will not give you any aid. None. Zilch. Zip.

If you go down those USNWR rankings, however, to lower-ranked schools that do give merit aid - not need-based; merit-based - then yes, you should look closely at your options. You could be a billionaire, but if your child is a high-performer who scored well on SATs/ACT, then those schools will give your child significant scholarship money.

By using the Net Price Calculator (NPC) for each of these schools, you can guesstimate what kind of merit aid your child is likely to get, and what the bottom line will be for you to pay for tuition, room and board.

It is true some top tier schools (Ivy schools mostly) do not offer merit aids but most schools DO have merit aids.

Please list top schools that give lots of merit. We all want our kids to apply there.

This entire chain is misinformed. Please look at the financial aid websites for the colleges that you are interested in. The person who claims that a HHI of $180k will receive none, zip, zilch in aid is just flat out wrong! At the end of the day, you don't care if it is need-based, merit aid, a partial athletic scholarship or prize money from the Miss America pageant; dollars are dollars. And arguably need-based dollars are more durable in that they are not linked to continued athletic participation or maintenance of a particular GPA. See the FACTS from the Harvard FA website below. Under their arrangement, a student from a family making $180k would receive roughly $45k per year in aid. This is not a typo and I know this to be the case, first hand.

The Basics
•Close to 60% of our undergraduates receive Harvard Scholarship.
•20% of our parents have total incomes less than $65,000 and are not expected to contribute.
•Families with incomes between $65,000 and $150,000 will contribute from 0-10% of their income, and those with incomes above $150,000 will be asked to pay proportionately more than 10%, based on their individual circumstances. Families at all income levels who have significant assets will continue to pay more than those in less fortunate circumstances

The total annual cost is roughly $65k. So, if the HHI is $180k then the family pays 10% on the first $150k ($15k) plus 15% of the next $30k ($4.5k), for a total family contribution of just less than $20k. 65-20=45.

I think your post using Harvard as an example is misleading. People who follow colleges know Harvard is an unique case along with very few (and highly selective) need blind schools. Using Harvard (or one of the need blind schools) as an example will put families down the wrong path. My two cents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We make more than 180K and our kids both got merit aid at decent LAC's. There's some formula you can find on College confidential.com that has to do with the size of the school's endowment, and it involves looking up the school's tax records, rather than going by what's on their websites. We're grateful that both of our children go to schools with really large endowment where there is extra money 'floating around' to finance summer internships in other cities, study abroad, etc. in addition to the merit aid.

The poster above is incorrect when she says not to even bother. There are some schools where something like 80 percent of the students receive some financial aid. That includes people at the upper ends as well as the lower ends. Particularly people with multiple kids in college at the same time.

You are conflating merit and (not need-based) and financial aid (purely need-based). If your HHI is >$180,000, then at some schools, it doesn't matter how fabulous a student you are - you will not get any need-based aid. These are the schools at the top of the USNWR rankings. Therefore the PP who says "don't even bother" is correct, because these schools will not give you any aid. None. Zilch. Zip.

If you go down those USNWR rankings, however, to lower-ranked schools that do give merit aid - not need-based; merit-based - then yes, you should look closely at your options. You could be a billionaire, but if your child is a high-performer who scored well on SATs/ACT, then those schools will give your child significant scholarship money.

By using the Net Price Calculator (NPC) for each of these schools, you can guesstimate what kind of merit aid your child is likely to get, and what the bottom line will be for you to pay for tuition, room and board.

It is true some top tier schools (Ivy schools mostly) do not offer merit aids but most schools DO have merit aids.

Please list top schools that give lots of merit. We all want our kids to apply there.

This entire chain is misinformed. Please look at the financial aid websites for the colleges that you are interested in. The person who claims that a HHI of $180k will receive none, zip, zilch in aid is just flat out wrong! At the end of the day, you don't care if it is need-based, merit aid, a partial athletic scholarship or prize money from the Miss America pageant; dollars are dollars. And arguably need-based dollars are more durable in that they are not linked to continued athletic participation or maintenance of a particular GPA. See the FACTS from the Harvard FA website below. Under their arrangement, a student from a family making $180k would receive roughly $45k per year in aid. This is not a typo and I know this to be the case, first hand.

The Basics
•Close to 60% of our undergraduates receive Harvard Scholarship.
•20% of our parents have total incomes less than $65,000 and are not expected to contribute.
•Families with incomes between $65,000 and $150,000 will contribute from 0-10% of their income, and those with incomes above $150,000 will be asked to pay proportionately more than 10%, based on their individual circumstances. Families at all income levels who have significant assets will continue to pay more than those in less fortunate circumstances

The total annual cost is roughly $65k. So, if the HHI is $180k then the family pays 10% on the first $150k ($15k) plus 15% of the next $30k ($4.5k), for a total family contribution of just less than $20k. 65-20=45.