Anonymous
06/25/2015 14:30
Subject: Re:IB Program- What is it? IB or AP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Most IB programs in FCPS have no critical mass of IB diploma candidates. The numbers are underwhelming, to put it mildly.
Can you put up the numbers? What do you consider underwhelming?
IB diploma rates like 3.1% at Mount Vernon, 4.6% at Annandale, 6.3% at Lee, 7.8% at Edison, and 8.0% at Stuart for the Class of 2013. IB diploma candidates failing at rates like 30% at Edison, 40% at Mount Vernon and 46% at Stuart - same class.
That's particularly disappointing when you consider that each of those schools has a dedicated IB coordinator paid for by FCPS taxpayers.
I can't believe those numbers. Can you provide link?
They were in a FCPS press release summarizing AP and IB results for the Class of 2013.
Maybe I am looking at the wrong data but this link says 76% got IB diploma. http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/apibtest.shtml
Avg worldwide success level is about 80% so FCPS number's pretty close to avg. What am I missing?
Thanks for the link. So there are about twice as many AP schools as IB schools in FCPS, but about six times as many AP Scholars and AP Scholars with Distinction, and three times as many AP Scholars with Honor, as IB diploma graduates? In addition, the College Board recognizes "National AP Scholars," which reflects higher levels of performance than required for other AP Scholars OR for an IB diploma.
Looking at this, I can see why people prefer AP.
People prefer IB because it's easier to look impressive. It is a lot easier to become AP scholars and scholars with honors and distinctions than it is to get an IB diploma.
I'll assume you meant AP in your first sentence and not exploit your inability to edit.
Objectively, it's easier to become an AP Scholar or an AP Scholar with Honor than to get an IB diploma. AP Scholars with Distinction probably are comparable to IB diploma recipients, but there are far more of them because there's a much larger pool of high-achieving kids at AP schools. National AP Scholars have credentials that exceed those necessary for an IB diploma. But, you are correct in the sense that people may prefer an AP program with multiple categories of recognition. It's more "all or nothing" in IB, and usually it's nothing for IB students in FCPS.
Anonymous
06/25/2015 13:48
Subject: Re:IB Program- What is it? IB or AP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Most IB programs in FCPS have no critical mass of IB diploma candidates. The numbers are underwhelming, to put it mildly.
Can you put up the numbers? What do you consider underwhelming?
IB diploma rates like 3.1% at Mount Vernon, 4.6% at Annandale, 6.3% at Lee, 7.8% at Edison, and 8.0% at Stuart for the Class of 2013. IB diploma candidates failing at rates like 30% at Edison, 40% at Mount Vernon and 46% at Stuart - same class.
That's particularly disappointing when you consider that each of those schools has a dedicated IB coordinator paid for by FCPS taxpayers.
I can't believe those numbers. Can you provide link?
They were in a FCPS press release summarizing AP and IB results for the Class of 2013.
Maybe I am looking at the wrong data but this link says 76% got IB diploma. http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/apibtest.shtml
Avg worldwide success level is about 80% so FCPS number's pretty close to avg. What am I missing?
Thanks for the link. So there are about twice as many AP schools as IB schools in FCPS, but about six times as many AP Scholars and AP Scholars with Distinction, and three times as many AP Scholars with Honor, as IB diploma graduates? In addition, the College Board recognizes "National AP Scholars," which reflects higher levels of performance than required for other AP Scholars OR for an IB diploma.
Looking at this, I can see why people prefer AP.
People prefer IB because it's easier to look impressive. It is a lot easier to become AP scholars and scholars with honors and distinctions than it is to get an IB diploma.
Anonymous
06/25/2015 13:38
Subject: Re:IB Program- What is it? IB or AP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Most IB programs in FCPS have no critical mass of IB diploma candidates. The numbers are underwhelming, to put it mildly.
Can you put up the numbers? What do you consider underwhelming?
IB diploma rates like 3.1% at Mount Vernon, 4.6% at Annandale, 6.3% at Lee, 7.8% at Edison, and 8.0% at Stuart for the Class of 2013. IB diploma candidates failing at rates like 30% at Edison, 40% at Mount Vernon and 46% at Stuart - same class.
That's particularly disappointing when you consider that each of those schools has a dedicated IB coordinator paid for by FCPS taxpayers.
I can't believe those numbers. Can you provide link?
They were in a FCPS press release summarizing AP and IB results for the Class of 2013.
Maybe I am looking at the wrong data but this link says 76% got IB diploma. http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/apibtest.shtml
Avg worldwide success level is about 80% so FCPS number's pretty close to avg. What am I missing?
Thanks for the link. So there are about twice as many AP schools as IB schools in FCPS, but about six times as many AP Scholars and AP Scholars with Distinction, and three times as many AP Scholars with Honor, as IB diploma graduates? In addition, the College Board recognizes "National AP Scholars," which reflects higher levels of performance than required for other AP Scholars OR for an IB diploma.
Looking at this, I can see why people prefer AP.
Anonymous
06/25/2015 13:21
Subject: Re:IB Program- What is it? IB or AP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Most IB programs in FCPS have no critical mass of IB diploma candidates. The numbers are underwhelming, to put it mildly.
Can you put up the numbers? What do you consider underwhelming?
IB diploma rates like 3.1% at Mount Vernon, 4.6% at Annandale, 6.3% at Lee, 7.8% at Edison, and 8.0% at Stuart for the Class of 2013. IB diploma candidates failing at rates like 30% at Edison, 40% at Mount Vernon and 46% at Stuart - same class.
That's particularly disappointing when you consider that each of those schools has a dedicated IB coordinator paid for by FCPS taxpayers.
I can't believe those numbers. Can you provide link?
They were in a FCPS press release summarizing AP and IB results for the Class of 2013.
Maybe I am looking at the wrong data but this link says 76% got IB diploma. http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/apibtest.shtml
Avg worldwide success level is about 80% so FCPS number's pretty close to avg. What am I missing?
Different year, and the information you cited doesn't address the low pass and participation rates at some schools.
The percentage of graduates of most IB schools in FCPS getting IB diplomas is very low, and at least in 2013 there weren't any schools over 20%. In effect, 80 to 97% of the graduates of IB schools were leaving without the credential that the entire school is expected to revolve around under the IBO guidelines.
http://www.fcps.edu/cco/pr/apib/2013/table11.pdf
Anonymous
06/25/2015 13:02
Subject: Re:IB Program- What is it? IB or AP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Most IB programs in FCPS have no critical mass of IB diploma candidates. The numbers are underwhelming, to put it mildly.
Can you put up the numbers? What do you consider underwhelming?
IB diploma rates like 3.1% at Mount Vernon, 4.6% at Annandale, 6.3% at Lee, 7.8% at Edison, and 8.0% at Stuart for the Class of 2013. IB diploma candidates failing at rates like 30% at Edison, 40% at Mount Vernon and 46% at Stuart - same class.
That's particularly disappointing when you consider that each of those schools has a dedicated IB coordinator paid for by FCPS taxpayers.
I can't believe those numbers. Can you provide link?
They were in a FCPS press release summarizing AP and IB results for the Class of 2013.
Maybe I am looking at the wrong data but this link says 76% got IB diploma. http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/apibtest.shtml
Avg worldwide success level is about 80% so FCPS number's pretty close to avg. What am I missing?
Anonymous
06/25/2015 13:02
Subject: Re:IB Program- What is it? IB or AP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
You have made your point many times over. What are you trying to do - shame OP into pupil-placing in AP school because IB is SOOO BAAADDD for society?
Touch a nerve?
The point is that if we put AP in the IB schools, FCPS would save over 1.5 Million dollars. That is a start. It is not insignificant.
But newsflash! Not everyone wants to do AP. Many people don't like a program that focuses so much on passing multiple choice tests and prefer and approach that involves critical thinking and writing.
If we got rid of AAP centers we could save even more money and taxpayers wouldn't be paying to give a bunch of above average kids a special education.
I've had kids in both AP and IB classes, and I'd say this is a false dichotomy. The IB classes covered less material, but there was more classroom discussion and writing. AP classes in the humanities required critical thinking and writing, but they covered more material at a faster pace, and there were more tests to confirm students were keeping up.
Overall, I felt both had their benefits, but that IB is more aligned with the approach associated with European universities and that AP is better preparation for American universities, or at least the types of classes that students tend to take during their first and second years. I think it would be easier to transition from the AP approach to the IB approach than vice versa.
Anonymous
06/25/2015 12:52
Subject: Re:IB Program- What is it? IB or AP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Most IB programs in FCPS have no critical mass of IB diploma candidates. The numbers are underwhelming, to put it mildly.
Can you put up the numbers? What do you consider underwhelming?
IB diploma rates like 3.1% at Mount Vernon, 4.6% at Annandale, 6.3% at Lee, 7.8% at Edison, and 8.0% at Stuart for the Class of 2013. IB diploma candidates failing at rates like 30% at Edison, 40% at Mount Vernon and 46% at Stuart - same class.
That's particularly disappointing when you consider that each of those schools has a dedicated IB coordinator paid for by FCPS taxpayers.
I can't believe those numbers. Can you provide link?
They were in a FCPS press release summarizing AP and IB results for the Class of 2013.
Anonymous
06/25/2015 12:44
Subject: Re:IB Program- What is it? IB or AP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Most IB programs in FCPS have no critical mass of IB diploma candidates. The numbers are underwhelming, to put it mildly.
Can you put up the numbers? What do you consider underwhelming?
IB diploma rates like 3.1% at Mount Vernon, 4.6% at Annandale, 6.3% at Lee, 7.8% at Edison, and 8.0% at Stuart for the Class of 2013. IB diploma candidates failing at rates like 30% at Edison, 40% at Mount Vernon and 46% at Stuart - same class.
That's particularly disappointing when you consider that each of those schools has a dedicated IB coordinator paid for by FCPS taxpayers.
I can't believe those numbers. Can you provide link?
Anonymous
06/25/2015 12:40
Subject: Re:IB Program- What is it? IB or AP?
Anonymous wrote:
You have made your point many times over. What are you trying to do - shame OP into pupil-placing in AP school because IB is SOOO BAAADDD for society?
Touch a nerve?
The point is that if we put AP in the IB schools, FCPS would save over 1.5 Million dollars. That is a start. It is not insignificant.
But newsflash! Not everyone wants to do AP. Many people don't like a program that focuses so much on passing multiple choice tests and prefer and approach that involves critical thinking and writing.
If we got rid of AAP centers we could save even more money and taxpayers wouldn't be paying to give a bunch of above average kids a special education.
Anonymous
06/25/2015 12:20
Subject: IB Program- What is it? IB or AP?
What about Marshall, South Lakes and Robinson? I'd be interested to know the number for higher SES schools (both full diploma & fail rates-- because kids can certainly get a lot from the program without getting the diploma(but then, it is more like an AP system...). Also do any FCPS schools havE the AP Capstone program yet? How are capstone numbers compared to IB fill diploma numbers? TIA...
Anonymous
06/25/2015 11:29
Subject: Re:IB Program- What is it? IB or AP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Most IB programs in FCPS have no critical mass of IB diploma candidates. The numbers are underwhelming, to put it mildly.
Can you put up the numbers? What do you consider underwhelming?
IB diploma rates like 3.1% at Mount Vernon, 4.6% at Annandale, 6.3% at Lee, 7.8% at Edison, and 8.0% at Stuart for the Class of 2013. IB diploma candidates failing at rates like 30% at Edison, 40% at Mount Vernon and 46% at Stuart - same class.
That's particularly disappointing when you consider that each of those schools has a dedicated IB coordinator paid for by FCPS taxpayers.
Anonymous
06/25/2015 10:34
Subject: Re:IB Program- What is it? IB or AP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is a fact and I don't have to prove it to you. I imagine most people know that already.
I don't really have the dog in this fight, but this is priceless.
I understood what the PP was saying. People have dug up the relevant sections before from the FCPS budget, which runs hundreds of pages, and IB clearly is more expensive on a per student basis. Something isn't false merely because you haven't engaged in the same time-consuming exercise yet again.
Maybe once IB is more widely implemented, the cost/student will come down. We need more IB schools.
The costs for both of these programs keeps going up despite each year more people participating in them. Over one year AP went up $9 per student and IB went up $18 per student. I'm guessing the IB program will keep increasing ahead of AP because there are more salaries involved.
You have made your point many times over. What are you trying to do - shame OP into pupil-placing in AP school because IB is SOOO BAAADDD for society?
I've only posted twice on this thread. I was merely discrediting the person who questioned whether IB was really more expensive (it is) and whether the cost will come down if it's more widely implemented (it won't).
Anonymous
06/25/2015 08:24
Subject: Re:IB Program- What is it? IB or AP?
Anonymous wrote:Most IB programs in FCPS have no critical mass of IB diploma candidates. The numbers are underwhelming, to put it mildly.
Can you put up the numbers? What do you consider underwhelming?
Anonymous
06/25/2015 08:16
Subject: Re:IB Program- What is it? IB or AP?
Most IB programs in FCPS have no critical mass of IB diploma candidates. The numbers are underwhelming, to put it mildly.
Anonymous
06/25/2015 01:30
Subject: Re:IB Program- What is it? IB or AP?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is a fact and I don't have to prove it to you. I imagine most people know that already.
I don't really have the dog in this fight, but this is priceless.
I understood what the PP was saying. People have dug up the relevant sections before from the FCPS budget, which runs hundreds of pages, and IB clearly is more expensive on a per student basis. Something isn't false merely because you haven't engaged in the same time-consuming exercise yet again.
Maybe once IB is more widely implemented, the cost/student will come down. We need more IB schools.
??? Have you seen the participation rate at some of the existing IB school? If anything we need fewer. Look at the numbers for Stuart, Lee, and Mt. Vernon.
With some luck and even more IB, we can get that 5% diploma rate at some of those schools down to a more reasonable 2-3%.
IB has been in those schools for about 20 years. Also, not sure what your numbers mean.