Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reason we ugly girls fight the "you're just a different kind of pretty" is twofold.

1) While beauty is subjective to a certain extent, there is 100% an agreed-upon objective list of physical attricbutes required to be a conventionally-attractive women in the US in 2015. That is a fact. It is also a fact that those who adhere to these conventional standards of beauty recieve preferential treatment. When you tell me that I would be attractive if I only put wnough effort in, you are telling me that all the looks-based discrimination I have dealt with was my fault because I didn't work hard enough on my appearance. That is sexist bullshit. I should not have to spend a lot of time and money on my appearance in order to be treated like a person.

2) When I say that I am not pretty, I am not telling you that I have no worth as a person, only that I do not possess a specific attribute and that I lack the priviledge that accompanies that specific attribute, and an attribute that SHOULD carry almost no weight over my overall worth, given how subject and liable to change that attribute is. When you insist that I AM pretty and that stating that I am ugly implies that I have low-self-worth, you are perpetuating a belief that my worth is IN ANY WAY related to my physical appearance. It is not and should not be related. Do not try to impose you belief that I cannot have high-self-worth AND be ugly.

Give me a break!

1) No one is denying there is looks discrimination. I'm an AA woman, so I get it 2-fold.
That's like me saying that because I'm black and there are a number of people who agree that black people are inferior, I need to buy into that bullshit and say I agree that I am inferior, but hey I have some other good qualities. You can miss me with that b.s.

2) I don't think anyone is saying that is your fault that you are not pretty. Folks are saying that sometimes there are things you can do to make yourself feel better about your looks. Cause if you did not have "ANY" feelings about how you look, you would not have even put enough effort into categorizing yourself as "ugly"

3) Exactly who is telling you that feeling good about ALL of who you are, including how you look, is anyway minimizing any other qualities you may possess? I am not defined by my looks, my smarts, or any other singular quality. I am the sum of my parts and I damn sure want to feel good about most of them, and the ones that need work to feel better about, I hope I am willing to put in the work.

4) It's almost as if a number of the posters have become so invested in their identity as "ugly", that they cannot bear for someone to challenge it. As if, they have made that a central part of their identity and don't want to dare to see themselves any different in that particular category.

There it is again... the overwhelming imperative that if a woman isn't pretty, she should "work on it" until she is pretty and that's it not enough to be satisfied with your other good qualities.

It's crazy that our society demands that women pursue "pretty" when it doesn't demand that women pursue smart or kind or power or athleticism or any other damn thing. The most important thing is that women are pretty and if they aren't, that they make themselves pretty.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you calling yourself ugly - what exactly do you think makes you that way?

I have a large nose, thin lips/small mouth, my eyes are two different shapes, and no matter my weight (which is actually well within the range of BMI normal) I always have a double chin. With my glasses I'm a dead ringer for Amy Farrah Fowler from the Big Bang Theory. I'm just not attractive and it's a fact. But as others have already stated, it doesn't matter and it doesn't particularly bother me.

She looks very nice when out of character, so don't sell yourself short

Anonymous wrote:The reason we ugly girls fight the "you're just a different kind of pretty" is twofold.

1) While beauty is subjective to a certain extent, there is 100% an agreed-upon objective list of physical attricbutes required to be a conventionally-attractive women in the US in 2015. That is a fact. It is also a fact that those who adhere to these conventional standards of beauty recieve preferential treatment. When you tell me that I would be attractive if I only put wnough effort in, you are telling me that all the looks-based discrimination I have dealt with was my fault because I didn't work hard enough on my appearance. That is sexist bullshit. I should not have to spend a lot of time and money on my appearance in order to be treated like a person.

2) When I say that I am not pretty, I am not telling you that I have no worth as a person, only that I do not possess a specific attribute and that I lack the priviledge that accompanies that specific attribute, and an attribute that SHOULD carry almost no weight over my overall worth, given how subject and liable to change that attribute is. When you insist that I AM pretty and that stating that I am ugly implies that I have low-self-worth, you are perpetuating a belief that my worth is IN ANY WAY related to my physical appearance. It is not and should not be related. Do not try to impose you belief that I cannot have high-self-worth AND be ugly.

Give me a break!

1) No one is denying there is looks discrimination. I'm an AA woman, so I get it 2-fold.
That's like me saying that because I'm black and there are a number of people who agree that black people are inferior, I need to buy into that bullshit and say I agree that I am inferior, but hey I have some other good qualities. You can miss me with that b.s.

2) I don't think anyone is saying that is your fault that you are not pretty. Folks are saying that sometimes there are things you can do to make yourself feel better about your looks. Cause if you did not have "ANY" feelings about how you look, you would not have even put enough effort into categorizing yourself as "ugly"

3) Exactly who is telling you that feeling good about ALL of who you are, including how you look, is anyway minimizing any other qualities you may possess? I am not defined by my looks, my smarts, or any other singular quality. I am the sum of my parts and I damn sure want to feel good about most of them, and the ones that need work to feel better about, I hope I am willing to put in the work.

4) It's almost as if a number of the posters have become so invested in their identity as "ugly", that they cannot bear for someone to challenge it. As if, they have made that a central part of their identity and don't want to dare to see themselves any different in that particular category.

Anonymous wrote:I would that anyone who considerrs themselves "aveerage" is not ugly but just not willing to make some effort to up the looks level. A good haircut, invest in clothes that fit perfectly (its worth using a professional shopper), good skin care, make up lessons, maybe high lights. Its some upfront work but can make a lifetime of difference. Maybe its a southern thing but my mom always said thats what distinguishes us from the other ladies, the allocation of effort knowing that small things can make a big difference.

You realize all these things require money?

I am not attractive. I am obese with a very curved spine and limp. My face is fat with beady eyes and a large nose. While I so wear some makeup which improves my looks a bit I do not dress well or shave, which is probably the thing about me that most people think is the most ugly.
It's fine. I have a great (and very conventionally beautiful child) and a very handsome husband if I want to look at things that are pleasing to the eye.

Anonymous wrote:The reason we ugly girls fight the "you're just a different kind of pretty" is twofold.

1) While beauty is subjective to a certain extent, there is 100% an agreed-upon objective list of physical attricbutes required to be a conventionally-attractive women in the US in 2015. That is a fact. It is also a fact that those who adhere to these conventional standards of beauty recieve preferential treatment. When you tell me that I would be attractive if I only put wnough effort in, you are telling me that all the looks-based discrimination I have dealt with was my fault because I didn't work hard enough on my appearance. That is sexist bullshit. I should not have to spend a lot of time and money on my appearance in order to be treated like a person.

2) When I say that I am not pretty, I am not telling you that I have no worth as a person, only that I do not possess a specific attribute and that I lack the priviledge that accompanies that specific attribute, and an attribute that SHOULD carry almost no weight over my overall worth, given how subject and liable to change that attribute is. When you insist that I AM pretty and that stating that I am ugly implies that I have low-self-worth, you are perpetuating a belief that my worth is IN ANY WAY related to my physical appearance. It is not and should not be related. Do not try to impose you belief that I cannot have high-self-worth AND be ugly.

+1

You rock! Thank you! I was having trouble articulating this.

Also, beauty standards are "youth centric." If you tell people to work on it, you are asking them to chase a standard that is not possible for most of us as we age, rather than acknowledge that loss of objective, physical beauty occurs as we age, but that we gain money, wisdom, and experience in exchange. Middle age women run so much in our communities, but we don't celebrate them for their power. We tsk-tsk them because they are no longer physically beautiful.

Anonymous wrote:But what is objectively ugly? I have days where I feel ugly and I almost never walk into a room with assurance that I'm one of the best looking women in there... But it doesn't necessarily mean I'm truly ugly. I also agree that everyone can be pretty in their own way.

Disfigurement is usually ugly. Really weird proportions or asymmetry. There probably isn't much that can be done for these things. But they're also pretty rare, so I have to agree with you that most people posting here are objectively low average rather than truly ugly. When I think "ugly," I think "grotesque" -- like Hunchback of Notre Dame. There just aren't that many people out there who look like that. Maybe they have all somehow found this thread, but I doubt it. I am average to low average myself -- definitely looked better 1 baby and 20 pounds ago. I have never thought I looked that great but I've never had the awful experiences others have recounted on this thread.

I was thinking about this thread on my commute today and looking around me on the metro. Really, most people are average to attractive. There were some who weren't great looking and a few who were really nice looking, but mostly that was in the presentation -- makeup, hair. I think I saw only one truly beautiful woman -- I mean beautiful regardless of what she was wearing -- and she was dressed in a landscaping company uniform, wearing no visible makeup, and planting flowerbeds near the Mayflower hotel.

And, of course, there is so much subjectivity. Lupita Nyong'o is one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen. (At least in makeup and on the red carpet, which is the only way I've ever seen her.) The blond, heavily made-up sorority-girl look doesn't do it for me; I think "cute," not "beautiful." I think Anne Hathaway is gorgeous but she gets so much hate! But of course, if you grow up with the standard of beauty being the blond sorority girl, and you don't look like that, it's easy to think of yourself as ugly.

Anonymous wrote:Being ugly has defined my life also. Basically, I was cute from 0-4. At 4 or 5 I entered the awkward phase and at 38 have never left it. I was bullied all through school, to the point that it's good there were no guns in our house. Kids used to constantly tell me pre-10/31 "Um, Halloween isn't here yet so you should take off your mask" and post-10/31 "Halloween is over; you can take off your mask now." When my older brother delivered newspapers to neighbors, he came home one day and sheepishly admitted a kid in my grade gave him a dog biscuit to give me. My mother shrugged and told him to give it to our dog. I was really disappointed that she said nothing to console me. During class pictures kids would try to push me out of the picture saying I'd break the camera and would argue about who had to sit next to me.

Nobody ever asked me out in high school or college. I didn't even know when my prom was. Nobody asked to sign my yearbook (and I didn't bother getting one). I was not invited to any graduation parties. I invited about a dozen kids to mine - NONE came. I was so embarrassed that I lied to the relatives and told them my mom said I had to have a separate party for friends, and there was so much extra food that my brother got told to invite his friends over to eat. Usually I don't bother trying to look good, just aim for acceptable/appropriate. For my brother's wedding I did EVERYTHING I could possibly do to look good. When I saw pictures they were so bad that I cried because after all that effort, I still looked awful.

I am forgotten and ignored by the general public. I just hope that I don't die of suspicious causes that require an autopsy because it'd be embarrassing for them to find out I'm a virgin.

This is really sad. I think perhaps a discussion with a therapist might help the self esteem part? Most people don't really care much about looks, but you do have to be willing to try to make friends, which is hard after a lifetime of snubs. (real or perceived)

This just makes me sad. I know I'm repeating myself...just wish I could help.

Anonymous wrote:I would that anyone who considerrs themselves "aveerage" is not ugly but just not willing to make some effort to up the looks level. A good haircut, invest in clothes that fit perfectly (its worth using a professional shopper), good skin care, make up lessons, maybe high lights. Its some upfront work but can make a lifetime of difference. Maybe its a southern thing but my mom always said thats what distinguishes us from the other ladies, the allocation of effort knowing that small things can make a big difference.

Lol ... effort is what takes me from ugly to average. So.

Anonymous wrote:Those of you calling yourself ugly - what exactly do you think makes you that way?

I have a large nose, thin lips/small mouth, my eyes are two different shapes, and no matter my weight (which is actually well within the range of BMI normal) I always have a double chin. With my glasses I'm a dead ringer for Amy Farrah Fowler from the Big Bang Theory. I'm just not attractive and it's a fact. But as others have already stated, it doesn't matter and it doesn't particularly bother me.

I would that anyone who considerrs themselves "aveerage" is not ugly but just not willing to make some effort to up the looks level. A good haircut, invest in clothes that fit perfectly (its worth using a professional shopper), good skin care, make up lessons, maybe high lights. Its some upfront work but can make a lifetime of difference. Maybe its a southern thing but my mom always said thats what distinguishes us from the other ladies, the allocation of effort knowing that small things can make a big difference.

The reason we ugly girls fight the "you're just a different kind of pretty" is twofold.

1) While beauty is subjective to a certain extent, there is 100% an agreed-upon objective list of physical attricbutes required to be a conventionally-attractive women in the US in 2015. That is a fact. It is also a fact that those who adhere to these conventional standards of beauty recieve preferential treatment. When you tell me that I would be attractive if I only put wnough effort in, you are telling me that all the looks-based discrimination I have dealt with was my fault because I didn't work hard enough on my appearance. That is sexist bullshit. I should not have to spend a lot of time and money on my appearance in order to be treated like a person.

2) When I say that I am not pretty, I am not telling you that I have no worth as a person, only that I do not possess a specific attribute and that I lack the priviledge that accompanies that specific attribute, and an attribute that SHOULD carry almost no weight over my overall worth, given how subject and liable to change that attribute is. When you insist that I AM pretty and that stating that I am ugly implies that I have low-self-worth, you are perpetuating a belief that my worth is IN ANY WAY related to my physical appearance. It is not and should not be related. Do not try to impose you belief that I cannot have high-self-worth AND be ugly.

Google "Freckles are beautiful" and look at the images. C'mon.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aging is the great equalizer - we all become a bit "invisible" as we age in this youth-obsessed culture, no matter how beautiful we are or were.

I wonder if it's easier for someone who has never been beautiful to age because they never felt their identity and value was intertwined with their looks; to go from turning heads to gradually noticing that not even the construction workers whistle anymore when you walk by -- that's a game-changer.

This might be true. I am the freckle poster from above and strangely I feel like they are slightly beneficial wrt aging because they help hide wrinkles. Fwiw, I have always gotten catcalls and looks from men in bars etc. but I always thought that had more to do with my body, which I don't think has anything to do with being "pretty." Good body, nice hair, average to ugly face because of the freckles.

I seriously don't get the "freckles = ugly" thing. I don't think that at all. (And I'm not freckled.) I'm the PP who said my mom is a freckled redhead and was completely beautiful until she was close to 60. I mean, like hit on all the time, even after she was married and had kids. REALLY beautiful. Not just a little freckles, either - a totally freckled person. She never wore much makeup, and just looked like a J. Crew model, except with boobs.
My daughter takes after her coloring, and I hope she looks the same, freckles and all! I certainly hope she doesn't think freckles are ugly. How crazy!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you calling yourself ugly - what exactly do you think makes you that way?

Not attractive in the conventional way. A cross between Kathy Bates, Rosie O'Donnell and Mayim Bailik.
Can I look nice and put together? Yes. Have all but a very few selection of men ignored me my entire life? yes. Do I have a great sense of humor combined with being a fantastic conversationalist? yes.

Also, long body- so that I need to shop in Tall for tops. Short legs, so I have to shop in petite for pants. Apple shaped and 42G. Exercise and eat right (1500-1800 calories since I was 18, now that I am 50 it is 1200-1500), yet still weigh 40 lbs more than my doctor thinks I should be. When I was in college I ate 2/3 of what anyone else ate and walked more than anyone I knew and was still 20-30 lb more than any of my friends. Fitter than most but still considered obese. Me and my clan will rule during the famine.