Anonymous wrote:Why?

I'm 23 and supposedly most my age aren't religious, but I don't understand how you can just say you don't believe in God anymore? Do you think you're more intelligent because you're an Atheist? I'm pretty free thinking myself, so I obviously don't let religion influence my thinking. So what is it about Atheism that is appealing to you all?

Atheism is often not a conscious choice like picking the flavor of an ice cream. It's the natural state of not supposing that there is a god or gods. Most atheists have never had any good reason to believe in god, so they never started. As for those who did believe, and later decided not to, perhaps they realized that their previous belief was founded on mindless indoctrination and that there is really no basis to support that belief once they gave it some thought.

There are plenty of smart people who are religious, so I wouldn't say that I am more intelligent just because I am an atheist.

Atheism is appealing to me because it frees my mind from having to imagine things I have no evidence for.

I am the type of atheist who has examined the evidence and simply found no evidence or need for a God, or God(s). Science is an expanding body of human knowledge about the world and the universe. At any one point of time, we are correct on some things, and incorrect on others - we understand it's a spectrum and not right/wrong absolutes but often the distinctions are impractical to our level of comprehension. For example, Newtonian physics was fine for a period of time until or level of comprehension expanded.

So yes, you can always find things that Science does not have a good answer for, because there is always a boundary to our human understanding of the world and universe. But that doesn't mean science itself is somehow inadequate. Just as you wouldn't say that the concept of a library is inadequate just because you can't find one that holds all of the books ever published or will be published. This is the first irrational mistake that religious people often make when discounting the importance of science.

The second leap of irrational thinking is that then there must be some other explanation such as god(s) that created everything. There is just no evidence for it. Again, that there are gaps to our scientific knowledge does not necessitate that there be god(s).

The third leap of irrational thinking is that not only is god(s) responsible for creating the universe, but that there is only one true god and that he is personally interested in us, just us humans, and even specifically you.

Finally, you delve into madness when you start getting specific about just in what manner is god interested in us humans, what his purpose is for our existence and how he expects us to behave.

In conclusion, I don't engage in discussions of religion with people I know because many people blindly believes who are otherwise good friends. I'd rather not call them out on it. People of course are free to believe what they want to believe, but I am also free to people who believe in god are either ignorant, manipulative, or just plain stupid in that respect.

Anonymous wrote:I never get the weird obsession some people who identify as religious have with atheism. Why are there so many threads about atheists? It's so odd.

I would imagine that they either take it very personally or are genuinely concerned for the afterlife of people who do not believe. I had a friend who really believed that people who did not believe in God (as she understood God) were going to an actual, real, physical hell. She did not want people she cared about to experience that kind of suffering. It wasn't smug, it wasn't dismissive. She treated it more like the concern I would feel for someone who was driving drunk or playing Russian Roulette, but without the outside chance of survival involved with those things.

Me, I don't believe, but it's not a big part of my life what other people believe. If the OP feels comforted by her Catholicism, I think that's great. If the OP is getting shit from her friends for her Catholicism, I think that's terrible, not because I think that Catholicism is great but because people who criticize religion for being too judgmental should know better than to judge.

I never get the weird obsession some people who identify as religious have with atheism. Why are there so many threads about atheists? It's so odd.

Anonymous wrote:Why?

I'm 23 and supposedly most my age aren't religious, but I don't understand how you can just say you don't believe in God anymore? Do you think you're more intelligent because you're an Atheist? I'm pretty free thinking myself, so I obviously don't let religion influence my thinking. So what is it about Atheism that is appealing to you all?

I think the crux of it is that many people cannot reconcile the idea of an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-benevolent God (traditional definition of God) with the amount of unnecessary suffering in this world.

Also, many organized religions have given themselves a bad rep over the years and they seem like their primary goal is to control the masses.

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I'll bite the bullet. You're very young, or very dumb, or both.

And it has nothing to do with you being religious. You sound like you believe because that's what you think you're supposed to be (ie, "was born and will die a Catholic"). Like you don't have an option, and that it's the paradigm you're in no matter what.

There are a lot of intelligent religious people who make informed and educated understandings about faith and religion. They really research. They believe they have a choice about what to believe and identify as. They don't just go to church because it's what they're supposed to be and die as, but because of a sincere search.

So maybe you have some growing up to do, or maybe you should really study religion (not just Catholicism, but other traditions) so you have an informed understanding. You could be young, you could be dumb, but it has nothing to do with belief/unbelief.

I have an option and I've made my choice. At the same time I openly question my faith because their are parts of it I don't agree with and more stuff I'd like to understand. Why did God make me this way, why don't I look like this, why do I have go through these trials and tribulations...that stuff. I'm fairly knowledgeable about other religions, so I don't know why you would think I'm not. As far as I'm concerned, God is real, my Atheist dad is in heaven, the rest of my family is in heaven and there is no reason to think otherwise.

But why did you start the thread?
Did you accomplish what you'd hoped?

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Anonymous wrote:Technically, you cannot prove or deny the existence of God. Just because there is no physical proof that doesn't mean he doesn't exist. Just because you have a bible and a bunch of stories, that doesn't mean he exists.

In a perfect world, we'd all be Agnostic.

+1

I honestly don't know how people can say "you can't deny science" with a straight face. Yes, you can. In fact, scientific theories are disproven all the time. Okay, today scientists think the Universe came out of nowhere 13.8 billion years ago. Who's to say it was not 13.9 or 13.7 billion years ago? A mathematical model? Give me a break. For ages we've been taught about the Big Bang. Now many say it is highly questionable. I won't even mention that science doesn't bother to explain what was before the Big Bang. And these people will lecture others about the scientific method? Pathetic. (And I'm not even religious in the traditional sense.)

Why can you accept that God is eternal, but not accept that the Universe is eternal and continuously expands and contracts?

I am the PP, and I can accept pretty much anything. For instance, brain science tells us our field of focus is like 12 inches in diameter. The rest is made up by the brain. Which makes all this talk about observed reality quite interesting. Why can't you imagine (not even accept) that there's more to life than meets the eye?

There's your problem.

There is a huge difference between knowing that our observations are imperfect and therefore should be treated skeptically and saying "Anything goes." No point in arguing with you. You embrace the irrational.

No point exactly, since no one said 'anything goes.' Is this all your rational mind is capable of?

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'll bite the bullet. You're very young, or very dumb, or both.

And it has nothing to do with you being religious. You sound like you believe because that's what you think you're supposed to be (ie, "was born and will die a Catholic"). Like you don't have an option, and that it's the paradigm you're in no matter what.

There are a lot of intelligent religious people who make informed and educated understandings about faith and religion. They really research. They believe they have a choice about what to believe and identify as. They don't just go to church because it's what they're supposed to be and die as, but because of a sincere search.

So maybe you have some growing up to do, or maybe you should really study religion (not just Catholicism, but other traditions) so you have an informed understanding. You could be young, you could be dumb, but it has nothing to do with belief/unbelief.

I have an option and I've made my choice. At the same time I openly question my faith because their are parts of it I don't agree with and more stuff I'd like to understand. Why did God make me this way, why don't I look like this, why do I have go through these trials and tribulations...that stuff. I'm fairly knowledgeable about other religions, so I don't know why you would think I'm not. As far as I'm concerned, God is real, my Atheist dad is in heaven, the rest of my family is in heaven and there is no reason to think otherwise.

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Anonymous wrote:God created matter, time , physical laws, and science. He exists outside of all these creations. That's a lot for our tiny minds to comprehend. I'm sure our heads would explode quickly if we were exposed to Gods intellect in their present capacity.

I mean, you can't deny science. The Universe was made 13.8 billion years ago. Until I see otherwise I'm inclined to beleive so. God may have played a part, but I don't know about that.

Science is a creation. God exists outside of science.

Where is your measurable proof of this? Which god are you talking about? What are your sources?

Proof is existance, order and life. Even a child knows that.

BWAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH!



That's the funniest thing I've heard in a week!

Physics and chemistry explain existence, order and life. You need a better education.

Is that so? Create matter from a vacuum. Bring a dead fish back to life ( all the chemicals are present).

What explains the existance of science itself? Science was put here for us like an Easter egg hunt. All the science we know and ever will know already has been created.

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Anonymous wrote:Technically, you cannot prove or deny the existence of God. Just because there is no physical proof that doesn't mean he doesn't exist. Just because you have a bible and a bunch of stories, that doesn't mean he exists.

In a perfect world, we'd all be Agnostic.

+1

I honestly don't know how people can say "you can't deny science" with a straight face. Yes, you can. In fact, scientific theories are disproven all the time. Okay, today scientists think the Universe came out of nowhere 13.8 billion years ago. Who's to say it was not 13.9 or 13.7 billion years ago? A mathematical model? Give me a break. For ages we've been taught about the Big Bang. Now many say it is highly questionable. I won't even mention that science doesn't bother to explain what was before the Big Bang. And these people will lecture others about the scientific method? Pathetic. (And I'm not even religious in the traditional sense.)

Why can you accept that God is eternal, but not accept that the Universe is eternal and continuously expands and contracts?

I am the PP, and I can accept pretty much anything. For instance, brain science tells us our field of focus is like 12 inches in diameter. The rest is made up by the brain. Which makes all this talk about observed reality quite interesting. Why can't you imagine (not even accept) that there's more to life than meets the eye?

There's your problem.

There is a huge difference between knowing that our observations are imperfect and therefore should be treated skeptically and saying "Anything goes." No point in arguing with you. You embrace the irrational.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Technically, you cannot prove or deny the existence of God. Just because there is no physical proof that doesn't mean he doesn't exist. Just because you have a bible and a bunch of stories, that doesn't mean he exists.

In a perfect world, we'd all be Agnostic.

+1

I honestly don't know how people can say "you can't deny science" with a straight face. Yes, you can. In fact, scientific theories are disproven all the time. Okay, today scientists think the Universe came out of nowhere 13.8 billion years ago. Who's to say it was not 13.9 or 13.7 billion years ago? A mathematical model? Give me a break. For ages we've been taught about the Big Bang. Now many say it is highly questionable. I won't even mention that science doesn't bother to explain what was before the Big Bang. And these people will lecture others about the scientific method? Pathetic. (And I'm not even religious in the traditional sense.)

Why can you accept that God is eternal, but not accept that the Universe is eternal and continuously expands and contracts?

I am the PP, and I can accept pretty much anything. For instance, brain science tells us our field of focus is like 12 inches in diameter. The rest is made up by the brain. Which makes all this talk about observed reality quite interesting. Why can't you imagine (not even accept) that there's more to life than meets the eye?

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Anonymous wrote:It is the latest American fashion, nothing else. I will die out just like it did in most cultures that tried to instill it as the official state religion.

I grew up in a mostly atheist household, although my parents were not nearly as militant as some atheists on DCUM LOL I find atheism kind of pointless and very narrow-minded. It's a pitiful way to go through life. I'd rather be happy (or at least at peace) than right.

That sounds really sad, that you seem to not be able to have or even perceive happiness or peace without religion and/or God. I guess I just don't really understand that.

My family, my friends, community, the outdoors, hobbies, interests, and even experiences with other humans give me plenty of happiness, peace, and joy. I feel fulfilled, and feel like my life is full in this life. I don't need to concern myself with an "afterlife" - my happiness in the present is enough. That doesn't mean it's perfect, but I feel plenty of contentment and purpose, as is, right now.

I am happy for you. Enjoy feeling superior to me. I guess it is one way to feel content

Huh? Where are you getting "superior" from? That sounds like insecurity speaking. I very genuinely wish you peace and happiness in your life, as is, right now.

You are not the first on to assume that faith is for the weak. Strong successful people don't need its solace. Well, you are wrong. That's as much as I care to say.

Wrong? Where am I making strong claims about right/wrong?

Everybody needs solace, including "strong successful people" (whatever that means). The source is different. For me, the source is the present. I find value in things here, in my life, however small, all the time. It does sound extremely sad that people can't find value in the present. It has nothing to do with superiority, and I'm not sure what kind of insecurity you seem to be projecting. You do sound kind of sad and discontent.

OK. Whatever

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Anonymous wrote:I lot of what religions teach is irreconcilable with the observable world and truth, contradictory, and deeply offensive. It's easy enough.

NP. I think this is a source of frustration for me regarding atheism. Religion =/= God.

Not pp. How are you determining belief in God, or attributes about God, without religion? What is informing your ideas that, for example, God is a loving and understanding being, rather than a hateful and vengeful being? What are you using to determine how you describe your belief in God?

I'm not trying to snark, I'm genuinely trying to understand what informs this kind of belief in a god, but not religion.

For me, my relationship with God is very personal and is not informed by dogma or tradition. My understanding of and faith in God is intuitive - no one taught me about God. I've always been a seeker: of truth, of light.

FWIW my dad's an atheist and my mom's a Christian on paper only. Starting at age 11/12 I became intrigued by religion and read texts on Judaism, Hinduism, Taoism, Buddhism...you name it. At 14 I joined a church of my own volition.

My faith just is. I hope this answers your question.

I think there is a difference between people who proactively and vocally self-identify as atheists and non-religious people who, if asked, will say that they don't believe in God/gods/divinity/whatever but who are not offended by or dismissive of the beliefs of others. I'm in the latter category. Religion was just not part of my life growing up. It's not part of my life now. I don't really understand religion and have difficulty explaining it to my 5 year old.

I don't think less of you because you believe. You have a cultural experience and personal beliefs that are different than mine, but as long as you're not an asshole about them, I'm happy to celebrate the differences between us. If you feel inspired by your spiritual life, I think that's really cool. If you feel inspired when you read the teachings of Jesus, I can relate to that on the level of feeling inspired by secular thinkers I admire. I think Jesus's messages (in so far as they have been passed down) are healthy and good. I just don't see them as fundamentally different than other philosophies or guides to living.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:It is the latest American fashion, nothing else. I will die out just like it did in most cultures that tried to instill it as the official state religion.

I grew up in a mostly atheist household, although my parents were not nearly as militant as some atheists on DCUM LOL I find atheism kind of pointless and very narrow-minded. It's a pitiful way to go through life. I'd rather be happy (or at least at peace) than right.

That sounds really sad, that you seem to not be able to have or even perceive happiness or peace without religion and/or God. I guess I just don't really understand that.

My family, my friends, community, the outdoors, hobbies, interests, and even experiences with other humans give me plenty of happiness, peace, and joy. I feel fulfilled, and feel like my life is full in this life. I don't need to concern myself with an "afterlife" - my happiness in the present is enough. That doesn't mean it's perfect, but I feel plenty of contentment and purpose, as is, right now.

I am happy for you. Enjoy feeling superior to me. I guess it is one way to feel content

Huh? Where are you getting "superior" from? That sounds like insecurity speaking. I very genuinely wish you peace and happiness in your life, as is, right now.

You are not the first on to assume that faith is for the weak. Strong successful people don't need its solace. Well, you are wrong. That's as much as I care to say.

Wrong? Where am I making strong claims about right/wrong?

Everybody needs solace, including "strong successful people" (whatever that means). The source is different. For me, the source is the present. I find value in things here, in my life, however small, all the time. It does sound extremely sad that people can't find value in the present. It has nothing to do with superiority, and I'm not sure what kind of insecurity you seem to be projecting. You do sound kind of sad and discontent.