Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Whereas, for advanced learners, none of that exists.

Generally, advanced learners have parents who are pretty good advocates. Sorry, though, GT is not a special needs program.

Ah, riiight. Somehow the parents of advanced learners were gifted with the magical Operators Guide to the Universe.

Parents of kids with SN weren't 'gifted' either. Somehow, they seemed to learn to advocate for their kids. I'd much rather have an advanced learner than one needing special education. What happens when an 'advanced' learner falls through the cracks? Not as much (if anything) as what happens to a special ed kid.

Again, with the arrogant, condescending, oversimplifying "oh, just organize and learn to advocate like we SN families did" - You weren't the one who organized and got IDEA passed into law.

What happens when an advanced learner falls through the cracks? They stagnate, get bored, disillusioned, frustrated, may become disruptive, maybe even quite school altogether (oh, no big deal). Yes, drop out. Many high-IQ kids have. Yes, some do go on to find other success, but some end up feeling betrayed, screwed and let down by the system and have a hard time recovering.

You seem to suffer from some very magical thinking about advanced learners, as though they were handed a golden ticket to life. It really doesn't work that way.

No one is handed a golden ticket to life, but some people are handed better chances for the ticket and advanced learners are in that group.

You are not going to convince anyone that being the parent of an advanced learner is a harder row to hoe than being the parent of a child with special needs. I feel ridiculous even typing it. Newflash- I have a child who is both an advanced learner (or gifted- or whatever people are calling it now) and has special needs and the giftedness part is the easiest part to address. By far. Especially in this area that has rich resources for parents to use to stimulate the most intelligent child. Plus, there are plenty of public schools in the area that do gifted education incredibly well. Don't live in one of them- easy peasy- move.

The "oh woe is me" I have an advance learner is hogwash.

Anonymous wrote:At least you have law protecting SN, at least you have SN consultants, even if they are expensive. That's a lot more than what anyone else has.

There are consultants for gifted children. They are as easy to find (and as expensive) as the ones for SN children (who may or not also be gifted).

The law was year (decades) in the making and still the schools have to be held to the fire to abide by it.

At least you have law protecting SN, at least you have SN consultants, even if they are expensive. That's a lot more than what anyone else has.

^ 9:22 = "I got mine, screw everyone else"

Screw you too.

Parents of kids with SN weren't 'gifted' either. Somehow, they seemed to learn to advocate for their kids. I'd much rather have an advanced learner than one needing special education. What happens when an 'advanced' learner falls through the cracks? Not as much (if anything) as what happens to a special ed kid.


Again, with the arrogant, condescending, oversimplifying "oh, just organize and learn to advocate like we SN families did" - You weren't the one who organized and got IDEA passed into law.

What happens when an advanced learner falls through the cracks? They stagnate, get bored, disillusioned, frustrated, may become disruptive, maybe even quite school altogether (oh, no big deal). Yes, drop out. Many high-IQ kids have. Yes, some do go on to find other success, but some end up feeling betrayed, screwed and let down by the system and have a hard time recovering.

You seem to suffer from some very magical thinking about advanced learners, as though they were handed a golden ticket to life. It really doesn't work that way.

Actually, I was involved with the 2004 amendments to IDEA and I continue to work with the Arc of Virginia and CHADD. Cetainly others, like my aunt and uncle, were on the forefront of the movement and I'm grateful but each generation has to maintain and advance the line. And yet, despite all this, we've had to pay a consultant $250/hr for two kids get the schools meets their obligations under the law to my kids' education. You seem to think that just because there's a 'law', the schools comply. They don't. BTW you still have provided the names of the 'many specialists' who will help SN parents navigate education issues. I, and others, are dying to know because it would save us a lot of money. Unlike us, you're not willing to put your money where your mouth is. What have YOU done to advocate for advanced learners? What have YOU paid to ensure your DC gets an appropriate education? And, spouting on DCUMs doesn't count.

The consequences you provided of an advanced learner falling through the cracks are laughable. You are, again, responding emotionally and without facts. What IS the dropout rate for advanced learners (those without LDs)? What is the incarceration rate of advanced learners (again, those without LDs)? What is the impact on the economy when the needs of advanced learners aren't met? As I've said repeatedly, if you want to persuade people you have to provide facts, not emotions, not hyperbole and not your opinion.

I'm done with this thread. I wish you well on getting the education you hope for your DC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading levels are minimum levels needed to do well at the grade a child is in. Try not to get to puffed up with pride over this. I have never met any child from a middle class socioeconomic background without learning difficulties who wasn't at least 2 to 3 levels above grade level in reading. It's normal.

Read different types of fiction in different formats - poetry, short story collections, fairy tales, fables.

Don't discount picture books either. Many are longer and filled with more difficult text and the illustrations are great. Everyone likes to see beautiful illustrations while they are reading. It helps bring stories more alive.

Reading fiction is one thing but reading non-fiction and gaining understanding from it is another. So have your child read more advanced non-fiction texts in various formats - newspapers, trade journals, general news magazines, etc.

If a child is reading well, then focus on writing and learning to write well. Now is a great time to teach a child who to write a general essay on a topic as well as teaching how to write a critical response to a reading.

really? all kids are ahead? I'm not being snarky - I'm trying to get a handle on whether or not the benchmark reading levels are actually "low". My DD is just barely meeting them and we are very concerned.

Benchmarks for "grade level" are set at the 25th or 16th percentiles- depending on what is being assessed. They are not set at the 50th percentile. So a student can be "above grade level" yet still be below the 50th percentile. If your child is above average for intelligence and barely meeting grade level for reading, I would get an assessment- especially if she is in 2nd grade or higher. If your child is in 1st grade or lower, talk to the teacher (if your teacher is not experienced- find one who is) to see if she/he sees any red flags.

My children attended one of the highly regarded ES in McLean and in 2nd grade only one child tested below grade level for reading out of 80 or so. (My child was the one who we below grade level and he has several LDs.)

That sounds strange. We're in a very high SES schools in MCPS and that's not our experience.
In our DD's K class last year there were only three children out of 27 who were reading 2-3 grade levels ahead. Nearly ever child ended the year "above grade level" but it was more like a half year to a year ahread, not by 2-3 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading levels are minimum levels needed to do well at the grade a child is in. Try not to get to puffed up with pride over this. I have never met any child from a middle class socioeconomic background without learning difficulties who wasn't at least 2 to 3 levels above grade level in reading. It's normal.

Read different types of fiction in different formats - poetry, short story collections, fairy tales, fables.

Don't discount picture books either. Many are longer and filled with more difficult text and the illustrations are great. Everyone likes to see beautiful illustrations while they are reading. It helps bring stories more alive.

Reading fiction is one thing but reading non-fiction and gaining understanding from it is another. So have your child read more advanced non-fiction texts in various formats - newspapers, trade journals, general news magazines, etc.

If a child is reading well, then focus on writing and learning to write well. Now is a great time to teach a child who to write a general essay on a topic as well as teaching how to write a critical response to a reading.

really? all kids are ahead? I'm not being snarky - I'm trying to get a handle on whether or not the benchmark reading levels are actually "low". My DD is just barely meeting them and we are very concerned.

I am the PP you are quoting and yes, almost all kids in my child's class who were of the same socioeconomic group as us were 2 to 3 grade levels ahead. The only kids I can think of that were not actually have learning disabilities that impact their ability to read. If your child is just barely meeting the benchmark for grade level, then get testing - even if it's private testing - and then tutoring.

Most schools do a really poor job teaching phonics and for some kids they will really need true phonics instruction in order to be able to read fluently. Being able to read fluently increases comprehension. Very few classroom teachers are well versed in teaching reading.

reading three grade levels ahead and high-IQ are two different things, but if you have a child with a documented high IQ who is not doing well at public school there are options. Private school for one (DD is on FA scholarship), EPGY, and summer programs (CTY), camps, music, chess etc.

The reading thing has NEVER been an issue really. It is just reading.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Whereas, for advanced learners, none of that exists.

Generally, advanced learners have parents who are pretty good advocates. Sorry, though, GT is not a special needs program.

Ah, riiight. Somehow the parents of advanced learners were gifted with the magical Operators Guide to the Universe.

Parents of kids with SN weren't 'gifted' either. Somehow, they seemed to learn to advocate for their kids. I'd much rather have an advanced learner than one needing special education. What happens when an 'advanced' learner falls through the cracks? Not as much (if anything) as what happens to a special ed kid.

Again, with the arrogant, condescending, oversimplifying "oh, just organize and learn to advocate like we SN families did" - You weren't the one who organized and got IDEA passed into law.

What happens when an advanced learner falls through the cracks? They stagnate, get bored, disillusioned, frustrated, may become disruptive, maybe even quite school altogether (oh, no big deal). Yes, drop out. Many high-IQ kids have. Yes, some do go on to find other success, but some end up feeling betrayed, screwed and let down by the system and have a hard time recovering.

You seem to suffer from some very magical thinking about advanced learners, as though they were handed a golden ticket to life. It really doesn't work that way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Whereas, for advanced learners, none of that exists.

Generally, advanced learners have parents who are pretty good advocates. Sorry, though, GT is not a special needs program.

Ah, riiight. Somehow the parents of advanced learners were gifted with the magical Operators Guide to the Universe.

Parents of kids with SN weren't 'gifted' either. Somehow, they seemed to learn to advocate for their kids. I'd much rather have an advanced learner than one needing special education. What happens when an 'advanced' learner falls through the cracks? Not as much (if anything) as what happens to a special ed kid.

Some of us get both. In the same child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Whereas, for advanced learners, none of that exists.

Generally, advanced learners have parents who are pretty good advocates. Sorry, though, GT is not a special needs program.

Ah, riiight. Somehow the parents of advanced learners were gifted with the magical Operators Guide to the Universe.

Parents of kids with SN weren't 'gifted' either. Somehow, they seemed to learn to advocate for their kids. I'd much rather have an advanced learner than one needing special education. What happens when an 'advanced' learner falls through the cracks? Not as much (if anything) as what happens to a special ed kid.

Anonymous wrote:

Whereas, for advanced learners, none of that exists.

Generally, advanced learners have parents who are pretty good advocates. Sorry, though, GT is not a special needs program.

Ah, riiight. Somehow the parents of advanced learners were gifted with the magical Operators Guide to the Universe.

Whereas, for advanced learners, none of that exists.

Generally, advanced learners have parents who are pretty good advocates. Sorry, though, GT is not a special needs program.

Anonymous wrote:The discussion was about the school system, not the student. Where the school system is concerned, there are at least laws, requirements, legal mandates for special needs, there are dedicated funds, dedicated staff and resources, and legal recourses for special needs families. And, there are many specialists who will help special needs parents navigate and advocate on their behalf.

Whereas, for advanced learners, none of that exists.

Care to list any that do not charge $250 per hour? And are effective?