Don't go. Have an early dinner at home and join them after. Win win situation. Your family gets a meal, and dh gets to spend even less time there.

I wouldn't plan to eat somewhere I knew there wasn't going to be enough food. That just doesn't make sense. At this point I'm not sure it matters why MIL does this.. why do keep playing into it?

Op, you're a pretty shitty parent for subjecting your kids to this year after year. They are made to feel less wanted than everyone else, have to eat at mcdonalds for dinner, are exposed to all of this dysfunction, and have parents who won't stand up for themselves. Great lesson you're teaching your kids. "It's ok to be treated like shit guys and be made to feel substandard. Keeping the peace and not getting them upset is more important than our happiness". Lovely.

You have not given one good reason why you would still go. Frankly I find your mentality pretty disturbing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In fact, I can't believe why you wouldn't have offered years ago to bring a few things to contribute to the dinner and why nobody else in the family has too?! You're weird, OP. Maybe this is MIL's passive aggressive way of telling everyone that she can't cook for everybody.

I agree. OP sounds cheap and obsessed with food.

OP here. I'm not sure where you are getting your incorrect information. As I stated earlier, we just hosted them for Thanksgiving. We also invited our friends, to diffuse any tensions. Thankfully, everyone ate well AND was sent home with leftovers. Each person brought one dish, which we did not ask them to bring, since it was not their turn to host. The food that was brought, though put out, was generally not eaten. It seemed wasteful to me.

As far as Mil, she insists on hosting. Which, if she can not handle it, then 1.) why wouldn't she assign each person what to bring 2.) or stop inviting more and more people or 3.) stop trying to host if she knows she can not handle it. We offer to bring dishes. She says no. So we bring a few dishes anyway.

Honestly, it never occurred to me to ask anyone or expect anyone to bring enough of the main courses. And it never occurred to me to keep inviting people if there is not enough food to begin with. It certainly never occurred to me to host something, if I was not capable of hosting.

Mil does have issues with food, because of her upbringing, DH says it has always been this way in his house. DH says Mil is cheap. I would never say that, but I have never heard DH say that about anyone. So if he says that about his own mother, it would have to be true for him to say it. Thank you for raising some interesting points that I have to consider.

Wait, you bring a few dishes anyway and still there's no food for your family? Everyone eats before you except for SIL's family who are always late and you have to wait for them and then the food is cold? With every subsequent post you make OP you contradict what you've said earlier. It took you several pages to answer a simple timing question. So you're either a troll (and a very confused one at that) or truly nuts. How many pages before you clearly answer this mystery?

Arrive on time, but with full stomachs and a really appealing dessert--enough for an army.

Fill your stomachs ahead of time in a way that is special and festive to you--make a special breakfast/brunch/lunch at home, go out, whatever.

Since we are talking about difficult ILs - I also have given her the gifts for DH and DC over the years, and wrapped them. She pays for them, but she seems to have no problem getting anyone else's gift. Should I bring this up?

OP here. (Also above)

Anonymous wrote:Just tell her that since dinner seems to be a tough thing for her to manage, you will now have dinner separately and join them later for dessert and gifts. There's no need to carry any angst about your children not having memories of a family meal. It's not going to be there, ever, so you need to accept that and make a new dynamic if that's important to you.

Thank you - and thank you other PPs - so glad you get it. I appreciate those who have similar life experiences, it is difficult to explain to people who don't appreciate their perfect families (or think they do, but clearly do not).

Now, the "masks" PP described is exactly the type of tools I need. The ILs have been getting away with using them ever since DH was born - and it is a part of their abuse toward him. They try to treat me, and consequently DCs, the same as DH allows them to treat him. DH is too afraid of them to change it, and without his willingness to improve relations, it can not go forward. So we are forced to make other plans. Which could be perfectly fine. I just have to commit to it 100%. I really (really!) appreciate your support.

It is hard for me, because when my parents were here, the meal was the most important part of the day. I did not (and do not) understand any other way - it is easy to tell me it just is, but it may take a while to learn another way. Hopefully I can. I treasure having so many family members, friends, neighbors and guests in and out, like an open house, every holiday. And yes, there were plenty of leftovers for everyone - who packed their own on the way out, because my parents cooking was locally famous. I thought everyone did that. We didn't have a lot of money, but we had some amazing food and amazing people in our lives. They could make the best out of nothing, truly. It's hard.

I can't fathom not wanting someone at the table, or not wanting to serve enough - it seems awfully hateful and anti-Christmas to me.

I do think I should give her the heads up, just for not letting her think "the terrorists have won". It would have to be via email. It is impossible to reason with someone who acts surprised and baffled if you tell her the sky is blue. Yes, this is what we are dealing with. I am sure others would have told them off years ago!

Just tell her that since dinner seems to be a tough thing for her to manage, you will now have dinner separately and join them later for dessert and gifts. There's no need to carry any angst about your children not having memories of a family meal. It's not going to be there, ever, so you need to accept that and make a new dynamic if that's important to you.

Anonymous wrote:I know all about my dysfunction. My family of origin is totally fucked. While it's left it's left it's damage on my siblings and I, we're doing pretty well. The older I get, the more I'm surprised the relationships between us are really good. Instead of pitting us against one another, we're allied. Not sure how that happened when the opposite is usually true. It's probably because we always laughed together about the shitty things that happened even though it was so painful. But, we still deal with family drama and with our respective ILs.

My siblings and I take the "let's fuck with them" approach. If food is an issue at an IL's house, we'd bring plenty for everyone and wear the "Mask of Obliviousness". In fact, the "Mask of Obliviousness" is an excellent device to have where family drama is involved. We developed it in response to our family dysfunction along with a few others (Mask of Catatonia, Mask of Teflon, Mask of Ignorance, etc.) Will your ILs get pissed that your disrupting the family tradition? Sure, they will but by wearing the Mask of Obliviouslness, you won't be aware of what you've done. You'll chirpily comment on how nice it is to have such good food and so much of it. Oh, be sure to pack leftovers for everyone! Don't you just LOVE having leftovers? Behind the mask, you will enjoy seeking their discomfort and annoyance that you are oblivious to what you've done. If they do happen to speak to you about it, you put on the Mask of Ignorance.

This is brilliant pp and you've given name to how I act with my inlaws. They are nowhere near as dysfunctional as ops, but I have been doing the mask of obliviousness for years with my passive aggressive MIL. It works wonders!

I know all about my dysfunction. My family of origin is totally fucked. While it's left it's left it's damage on my siblings and I, we're doing pretty well. The older I get, the more I'm surprised the relationships between us are really good. Instead of pitting us against one another, we're allied. Not sure how that happened when the opposite is usually true. It's probably because we always laughed together about the shitty things that happened even though it was so painful. But, we still deal with family drama and with our respective ILs.

My siblings and I take the "let's fuck with them" approach. If food is an issue at an IL's house, we'd bring plenty for everyone and wear the "Mask of Obliviousness". In fact, the "Mask of Obliviousness" is an excellent device to have where family drama is involved. We developed it in response to our family dysfunction along with a few others (Mask of Catatonia, Mask of Teflon, Mask of Ignorance, etc.) Will your ILs get pissed that your disrupting the family tradition? Sure, they will but by wearing the Mask of Obliviouslness, you won't be aware of what you've done. You'll chirpily comment on how nice it is to have such good food and so much of it. Oh, be sure to pack leftovers for everyone! Don't you just LOVE having leftovers? Behind the mask, you will enjoy seeking their discomfort and annoyance that you are oblivious to what you've done. If they do happen to speak to you about it, you put on the Mask of Ignorance.

OP, first of all, I totally believe you. Folks should count themselves privileged if this level of disfunction seems like fiction.

I also get being stunned and falling for it more than once or twice. I get wanting to understand it and try and fix it.

Don't. Listen to the PP who told you to think of the kids. Do not teach them that the way this family treats each other is OK. Sometimes you have to cut the crap, tell the truth, and quit participating for the sake of your family's health and sanity. I had a recent discussion with my own child once he was finally old enough wherein I explained that his grandparents were (paraphrasing here) toxic and full of shit, despite their best intentions.

Don't go. When your kids are old enough, tell them why. And it isn't about the food. It's about manipulation and control.

Bring a few sides.

Anonymous wrote:OP again. Thinking about the resentment. The constant resentment they have against DH or I or both. You can cut the air with a knife, the resentment is so thick. PP, do you have this from your family, also? I'm sure their resentment, if it is there, helped with your successes? Did you ever tell them what you really thought of them? I don't want to give my ILs the satisfaction, but in my head, on the drive over, I really tell them off sometimes. Boy, would they love that. I won't give them the satisfaction. I am fairly certain that the BILs know exactly how I feel. But they don't speak up for the same reasons. It is so freaking awkward.

So OP, honest question - why do you go there at Christmas? What are you, your DH and DC getting out of this?

You can keep doing the same thing and get the same outcome or change it up and get a different outcome. It's not as if MIL is suddenly going to have an epiphany and produce more food at Christmas. If you do want to visit at Christmas then it seems to me that eating somewhere before hand is the easier option - less visible, solves the hunger issue, allows you to focus on the visit rather than the meal.

What is it that they resent?

OP again. Thinking about the resentment. The constant resentment they have against DH or I or both. You can cut the air with a knife, the resentment is so thick. PP, do you have this from your family, also? I'm sure their resentment, if it is there, helped with your successes? Did you ever tell them what you really thought of them? I don't want to give my ILs the satisfaction, but in my head, on the drive over, I really tell them off sometimes. Boy, would they love that. I won't give them the satisfaction. I am fairly certain that the BILs know exactly how I feel. But they don't speak up for the same reasons. It is so freaking awkward.

Anonymous wrote:OK--one more thing, if you bring a giant lasagne (or a ham or other food) you will not be a "hero" as the other poster has suggested, but you will probably be the person who is "destroying tradition." I would bring the food anyhow, because it is the common-sense thing for you to do, but do it so you can eat, not to "be a hero." No one there will care, since you are being told to get there after they eat anyhow.

+1

Op here. YES! Thank you! I knew that when PP suggested to bring more food that the ILs would only resent it. They resent everything I do. And I completely agree that you getting *away* from the situation was key. DH has "gotten away from them" in some ways, but in many ways, not. Although, their abuses made him achieve more than them, and they *hate* this. Except when it benefits them, of course.

In other words, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. I try to look forward to holidays, and try to make them memorable for DC. It is difficult, when they know the ILs live so close, but are so difficult. We can try to be nice, but it gets us nowhere, unfortunately. Your empathy is appreciated more than you know!