Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The studies of long term use report mixed results

Are there any that show affirmative harm/worse outcomes as compared to a group of children with ADHD who are unmedicated their entire lives? I feel like so often we get people here who point to the fact that ADHD medication doesn't "cure" ADHD as proof that medication doesn't work, as opposed to realizing that if you can take medication you're entire life and have that relieve the symptoms, that's a success compared to the alternative. ADHD meds don't cure ADHD anymore than insulin cures Type I diabetes, but I don't think anyone would say insulin is a failure as a treatment for it.

I tried to research this recently. What I found is that drug companies and the researchers they funded engage in scare tactics to tell parents that failing to medicate will lead to greater rates of drug addition, criminality, etc. Those studies and ads are problematic enough that the FDA has censured every company selling ADHD drugs for it. As far as I can tell, the problems with the studies are that 1) they were funded by drug companies/researchers had been paid by drug companies, in may cases 2) they included cigarette smoking as one of their "substance abuse" outcomes, suggesting they are not really measuring something truly dysfunctional; and 3) as far as I can tell, there is no study comparing kids who got good non-drug ADHD treatment and drug treatment. The studies compare drug treatment and no treatment. As you might imagine, kids who get no treatment at all might differ in many ways from kids with parents who at least try something.

What exactly are parenting classes supposed to help with? There is no reason I, as a parent, would ever need to have my kids sitting at desks, doing work in academic areas that they may or may not be interested in, for hours on end. Nor do I need them to have certain books and papers in their possession at specific times and transfer them between different rooms at different points in the day. Nor do I ever need them to take notes while they are reading, answer dozens of multiple-choice questions, plan and execute long-term research projects, or collaborate on written assignments with other children. Obviously as a parent I can provide healthy food, ensure they get enough sleep, coach them in self-regulation, and provide assistance in completing homework. But I'm not a teacher and I don't run a classroom and, even if I were, there is no home experience that is equivalent to a full day in school with a classroom full of kids and multiple teachers.

Anonymous wrote:All the people who worry about the side effects of meds- what about the side effects of not medicating? For us, the latter was much worse.

Exactly. There are indeed long term indica of not medicating. Those are the kids that were unable to handle school and ended up self medicating.
For all those not medicating - kids will self medicate at some point. I can't tell you how many professionals from speech therapists to dev odds have told me how very common this is. I personally know at least 4 people from high school and 2 from college who smoked pot constantly to calm down.

All the people who worry about the side effects of meds- what about the side effects of not medicating? For us, the latter was much worse.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We put DS is a school with small classes, lots of recess, PE and hand-on learning. We avoid foods with artificial food coloring and eat organic as much as possible. We've eliminated gluten from his diet (the tests are inconclusive as to whether he could have Celiac but taking out the gluten has had a huge effect on his behavior). We did OT for 2+ years to work on sensory issues and impulse control. The OT was out-of-pocket and the private school eats a huge part of our budget, but these changes have made a dramatic difference in his life. He's not 100% free of ADHD symptoms but he's thriving and happy and not exposed to drugs that could have long-term consequences.

I found the book Boys Adrift extremely helpful and the psychiatrist who wrote it makes a very convincing argument on the detriments of medication. That being said, if there is ever a time when DS struggles despite all possible interventions, we will consider medication. I do think most parents jump to medication because they are unwilling to spend the time and money on alternatives.

Yes, most people have two parents working full time and still can't afford private school. But go ahead and judge, like all the other clueless rich women on DCUM....

+1 Sanctimommy is back!

Anonymous wrote:We put DS is a school with small classes, lots of recess, PE and hand-on learning. We avoid foods with artificial food coloring and eat organic as much as possible. We've eliminated gluten from his diet (the tests are inconclusive as to whether he could have Celiac but taking out the gluten has had a huge effect on his behavior). We did OT for 2+ years to work on sensory issues and impulse control. The OT was out-of-pocket and the private school eats a huge part of our budget, but these changes have made a dramatic difference in his life. He's not 100% free of ADHD symptoms but he's thriving and happy and not exposed to drugs that could have long-term consequences.

I found the book Boys Adrift extremely helpful and the psychiatrist who wrote it makes a very convincing argument on the detriments of medication. That being said, if there is ever a time when DS struggles despite all possible interventions, we will consider medication. I do think most parents jump to medication because they are unwilling to spend the time and money on alternatives.

Yes, most people have two parents working full time and still can't afford private school. But go ahead and judge, like all the other clueless rich women on DCUM....

We put DS is a school with small classes, lots of recess, PE and hand-on learning. We avoid foods with artificial food coloring and eat organic as much as possible. We've eliminated gluten from his diet (the tests are inconclusive as to whether he could have Celiac but taking out the gluten has had a huge effect on his behavior). We did OT for 2+ years to work on sensory issues and impulse control. The OT was out-of-pocket and the private school eats a huge part of our budget, but these changes have made a dramatic difference in his life. He's not 100% free of ADHD symptoms but he's thriving and happy and not exposed to drugs that could have long-term consequences.

I found the book Boys Adrift extremely helpful and the psychiatrist who wrote it makes a very convincing argument on the detriments of medication. That being said, if there is ever a time when DS struggles despite all possible interventions, we will consider medication. I do think most parents jump to medication because they are unwilling to spend the time and money on alternatives.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think kids are overmedicated. Far too many kids are on medication. No one is looking at WHY? When I was a child, I don't remember a single child who had ADHD. Not one. No autism, almost no one with allergies, no one with autism.

Now there are hundreds, thousands, millions? of kids on medications for all these problems. Surely there's an underlying cause(es) that must be dealt with.

There's a huge upsurge in diabetes -- doesn't it make sense that the American diet is causing this? That one is obvious. ADHD probably has a similar cause, but no one is looking for it because we have these easy-peazy meds to give to our kids.

Medicine is for emergencies, that's my policy. Long-term problems demand that the underlying cause be identified and addressed. Medicine for ADHD is a band-aid. Address the root cause, and you'll find a solution.

I posted a few comments earlier,

and want to address a few things here, when we were kids in school (70's) there were the kids who acted up in class, the troublemakers etc, but they were just labeled as such, there were no Child study Teams to assist parents then. Maybe some of the bad kids did have undiagnosed ADD or other learning issues and were acting up because they were bored and sick of being in the classroom. Today at at least in the state I live in there is intervention.

As for ADD, if there was an easy fix or way to fix the root cause as a parent , don't you think we all would do that, there is not one, is it brain based,

,


Medicine is not always for emergency situations, it is also used to maintain health or to prevent a condition from worsening.

+1. Back in the 70s and 80s, there absolutely were kids with ADHD, they just didn't get diagnoses and ended up dropping out of high school as soon as they could. Maybe pp is cool with that being the outcome for her kid, but it's not okay for mine.

My cousin was diagnosed as ADD at age 5 back in the early 80s. We were at the same school together and I remember my parents just talking about how his parents couldn't control his behavior, as if it was their fault. Meanwhile I think both my parents had undiagnosed attention issues as well. Anyhow, my cousin went down a very different path than I did and it definitely didn't involve anything good. Both his dad and mine passed away from uncontrolled impulses. I also know someone from high school who dated a good friend of mine and revealed he was on Ritalin. At the time with my limited high school brain I thought "wow he must have something really wrong!". Anyhow, he graduated top of the class and now has a great family and successful career.

These are just anecdotes and I am no generalizing by them, but am pointing out that these diagnoses were happening even then, but they were highly stigmatized.

Anonymous wrote: The studies of long term use report mixed results

If you read them closely, they reveal subtle but positive academic results. I am a biostatistician and often these groups are led by researchers with less robust skills in statistical methods, and some effects that are present end up being watered down by weaker statistical methods.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think kids are overmedicated. Far too many kids are on medication. No one is looking at WHY? When I was a child, I don't remember a single child who had ADHD. Not one. No autism, almost no one with allergies, no one with autism.

Now there are hundreds, thousands, millions? of kids on medications for all these problems. Surely there's an underlying cause(es) that must be dealt with.

There's a huge upsurge in diabetes -- doesn't it make sense that the American diet is causing this? That one is obvious. ADHD probably has a similar cause, but no one is looking for it because we have these easy-peazy meds to give to our kids.

Medicine is for emergencies, that's my policy. Long-term problems demand that the underlying cause be identified and addressed. Medicine for ADHD is a band-aid. Address the root cause, and you'll find a solution.

I posted a few comments earlier,

and want to address a few things here, when we were kids in school (70's) there were the kids who acted up in class, the troublemakers etc, but they were just labeled as such, there were no Child study Teams to assist parents then. Maybe some of the bad kids did have undiagnosed ADD or other learning issues and were acting up because they were bored and sick of being in the classroom. Today at at least in the state I live in there is intervention.

As for ADD, if there was an easy fix or way to fix the root cause as a parent , don't you think we all would do that, there is not one, is it brain based,

,


Medicine is not always for emergency situations, it is also used to maintain health or to prevent a condition from worsening.

+1. Back in the 70s and 80s, there absolutely were kids with ADHD, they just didn't get diagnoses and ended up dropping out of high school as soon as they could. Maybe pp is cool with that being the outcome for her kid, but it's not okay for mine.

Anonymous wrote: The studies of long term use report mixed results

Are there any that show affirmative harm/worse outcomes as compared to a group of children with ADHD who are unmedicated their entire lives? I feel like so often we get people here who point to the fact that ADHD medication doesn't "cure" ADHD as proof that medication doesn't work, as opposed to realizing that if you can take medication you're entire life and have that relieve the symptoms, that's a success compared to the alternative. ADHD meds don't cure ADHD anymore than insulin cures Type I diabetes, but I don't think anyone would say insulin is a failure as a treatment for it.

The studies of long term use report mixed results

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:<<Because it is much easier for a pediatrician to give a drug rx to a parent who is exhausted and overwhelmed than to tell the parent that s/he needs to take parenting classes. >>

Is there evidence that parenting classes work?

Separately, I'm wondering if the posters talking about peds just giving away med rxes bc its easier than talking to tired parents -- do you have direct experience with this or is that just your perception? This has not been my experience...

Lots of anecdata at my kids' NW DC school.
Are there any long term studies of the effects of ADHD drugs on kids as young as 4?

Not my experience at all. My ped does not prescribe ADHD meds. We paid out of pocket for a non-network psychiatrist (because there was a months long wait for an appointment with an in network provider). The psychiatrist spent 90 minutes with us, talked with teachers and the pediatrician before deciding we should try medication. It was a thorough and expensive process.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:<<Because it is much easier for a pediatrician to give a drug rx to a parent who is exhausted and overwhelmed than to tell the parent that s/he needs to take parenting classes. >>

Is there evidence that parenting classes work?

Separately, I'm wondering if the posters talking about peds just giving away med rxes bc its easier than talking to tired parents -- do you have direct experience with this or is that just your perception? This has not been my experience...

Lots of anecdata at my kids' NW DC school.
Are there any long term studies of the effects of ADHD drugs on kids as young as 4?

Yes, there's a good one out of Hopkins with NIH. The thing is that the kids with negative side effects that are truly difficult drop out of these studies and stop taking meds. If you are under the care of a true expert, you can find a right combination of med and dose that gives only positives with either no or very mild side effects about 80% of the time. So it won't work for everyone, but it will for most with perserverence.

For people who are against meds in general, don't bother arguing because there is truly no point. Misusing any med is a terrible idea, from stimulants to antibiotics, etc... But using it in a controlled manner when indicated with a verified diagnosis only makes sense.

Stimulants are some of the most well studied meds on the market and have been used now for over 30-40 years. You throw things into your body daily with WAY less testing and scrutiny behind it.

Anonymous wrote:<<Because it is much easier for a pediatrician to give a drug rx to a parent who is exhausted and overwhelmed than to tell the parent that s/he needs to take parenting classes. >>

Is there evidence that parenting classes work?

Separately, I'm wondering if the posters talking about peds just giving away med rxes bc its easier than talking to tired parents -- do you have direct experience with this or is that just your perception? This has not been my experience...

Lots of anecdata at my kids' NW DC school.
Are there any long term studies of the effects of ADHD drugs on kids as young as 4?