Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea what anybody means by "profoundly gifted." In my educational past, it meant "children of parents who had no social skills and imparted the same to their kids." The basic point being, if you read and study a lot, and hardly ever socialize or enjoy the world, you can get pretty good at doing bookish stuff. Or, if you mean Einstein as an example of a profoundly gifted person, he wasn't recognized as gifted in school because, Einstein.

I hope you are not a teacher. There is an entire literature out there on very high IQ kids and their unique needs. And no, its not about studying alot (many PG kids do not have great study skills, BTW) but about how their brains are wired. They often enjoy the world intensely. They often DO have social problems, again in large part because their way of looking at the world is different from most of their age peers - its why so many such kids are happy with the SOCIAL side of programs like CTY.

As for Einstein, he was of course profoundly gifted, and he was not recognized as gifted at school precisely because German schools of his time (like most American schools today) did not understand the profoundly gifted.

here are some resources for you

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm

http://www.sengifted.org/

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea what anybody means by "profoundly gifted." In my educational past, it meant "children of parents who had no social skills and imparted the same to their kids." The basic point being, if you read and study a lot, and hardly ever socialize or enjoy the world, you can get pretty good at doing bookish stuff. Or, if you mean Einstein as an example of a profoundly gifted person, he wasn't recognized as gifted in school because, Einstein.

Anonymous wrote:I have no idea what anybody means by "profoundly gifted." In my educational past, it meant "children of parents who had no social skills and imparted the same to their kids." The basic point being, if you read and study a lot, and hardly ever socialize or enjoy the world, you can get pretty good at doing bookish stuff. Or, if you mean Einstein as an example of a profoundly gifted person, he wasn't recognized as gifted in school because, Einstein.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A question for the "I value diversity, but am fed up with how DCPS treats high SES folks on the Hill and EOTP"

When you plan to move are you going to head to a NoVa or Md MS that has a high percent of lower SES black and hispanic kids - IE ACPS, southern part of APS, or (I guess) easter MCPS or south east FCPS)? Or are you focused on the more solidly high SES schools in North Arlington, Mclean, Bethesda, etc?

Not the pp you're quoting but VA and MD both manage to educate lower SES kids way better than DCPS does! they also allow for tracking in a way that DC never would. I know there's a different dynamic at play between the "at-risk" populations of anacostia and the FARMS kids in the suburbs, but the difference is shocking. They manage diversity AND the kids can read... Imagine.

Anonymous wrote:A question for the "I value diversity, but am fed up with how DCPS treats high SES folks on the Hill and EOTP"

When you plan to move are you going to head to a NoVa or Md MS that has a high percent of lower SES black and hispanic kids - IE ACPS, southern part of APS, or (I guess) easter MCPS or south east FCPS)? Or are you focused on the more solidly high SES schools in North Arlington, Mclean, Bethesda, etc?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"You guys need to get over the obsession with Kaya Henderson. She is a person of adequate but not exceptional talent in charge of the school system of a small american city. Yes, it happens to be the city where you live, so you care about the outcomes! But stop obsessing over her and her motives. To me she comes across as a better than average DC civil servant, generally honest and trying to do the right thing. She is not in the same league as someone like Rhee who, despite the heavy criticism, is a visionary, founded her own organization at a young age prior to DCPS and went on to other good gigs post-DCPS.

Henderson will not be offered any lucrative jobs after this if she cannot show good results with DCPS. If she cannot show good results, this will turn out to have been the highest-paying and best job she ever has in her life, and she will be seen as someone who got lucky and was over-promoted following Rhee's ouster. Whereas if she does succeed, she will quite rightly be seen as a great candidate for many other education jobs.

In other words, her incentives are aligned with ours. And I am pretty sure she herself is aware of this."


This is a great synopsis of Kaya Henderson. She just isn't that good. We need to do better for our children.

Yeah, but what did Rhee do for THE CHILDREN she was supposed to be serving? Seriously, Napoleon was a "visionary" too.

Anonymous wrote:We know Heather. She's a hippy and something of a nutter and we pity her kid. I'd bet a lot of money the arrangement doesn't last through 8th grade. Outliers mean nothing here.

Anonymous wrote:"You guys need to get over the obsession with Kaya Henderson. She is a person of adequate but not exceptional talent in charge of the school system of a small american city. Yes, it happens to be the city where you live, so you care about the outcomes! But stop obsessing over her and her motives. To me she comes across as a better than average DC civil servant, generally honest and trying to do the right thing. She is not in the same league as someone like Rhee who, despite the heavy criticism, is a visionary, founded her own organization at a young age prior to DCPS and went on to other good gigs post-DCPS.

Henderson will not be offered any lucrative jobs after this if she cannot show good results with DCPS. If she cannot show good results, this will turn out to have been the highest-paying and best job she ever has in her life, and she will be seen as someone who got lucky and was over-promoted following Rhee's ouster. Whereas if she does succeed, she will quite rightly be seen as a great candidate for many other education jobs.

In other words, her incentives are aligned with ours. And I am pretty sure she herself is aware of this."


This is a great synopsis of Kaya Henderson. She just isn't that good. We need to do better for our children.

Anonymous wrote:"You guys need to get over the obsession with Kaya Henderson. She is a person of adequate but not exceptional talent in charge of the school system of a small american city. Yes, it happens to be the city where you live, so you care about the outcomes! But stop obsessing over her and her motives. To me she comes across as a better than average DC civil servant, generally honest and trying to do the right thing. She is not in the same league as someone like Rhee who, despite the heavy criticism, is a visionary, founded her own organization at a young age prior to DCPS and went on to other good gigs post-DCPS.

Henderson will not be offered any lucrative jobs after this if she cannot show good results with DCPS. If she cannot show good results, this will turn out to have been the highest-paying and best job she ever has in her life, and she will be seen as someone who got lucky and was over-promoted following Rhee's ouster. Whereas if she does succeed, she will quite rightly be seen as a great candidate for many other education jobs.

In other words, her incentives are aligned with ours. And I am pretty sure she herself is aware of this."


This is a great synopsis of Kaya Henderson. She just isn't that good. We need to do better for our children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's most likely to give is the determination of many high SES families to stay on the Hill past elementary, at least once BASIS stops making it through their WLs by September. DCPS clearly doesn't give a damn if we stay.

so maybe Henerson's gaffes are meant to urge CH parents into charters?

Maybe it's time to confront her directly on these issues. "have you given up on a CH middle school? Are you hoping for a charter to come in? Do you hope to work for the charter system when you leave DCPS? Do you care whether current residents stay in the district or are you waiting for a new batch of babies? How does this any of this fit with being chancellor of DCPS?"

Isn't there also a question of lack of unity among high-SES people on Capitol Hill? I read elsewhere on DCUM that there is/was a vocal group of parents who are more liberal/in favor of diversity and they oppose this idea of consolidating high-SES in one school. And they have been politically successful? Is this true or not? If it's true then you may need to resolve this disagreement within the community before you can get govt to change.

Well, there is this. Consolidation or test-in is something that 90% of hill parents would rejoice over, but the old gaurd, namely CHPSO, is pretty crunchy about it and it's hard to nave a candid, realistic conversation about all of this with them in the room. It's also a tough thing to discuss in-person, without sounding like a total self-serving asshole. Which is unfortunate, because all it means is the folks at Maury are "committed" and SH "is a perfectly fine option" until they lottery out, or move, or find ANY OTHER option. It'll be interesting to see what actually happens but my money is on no high-SES kids landing at Hine within the next 5 years, and same for Jefferson. SH will be a catch all for the kids that don't get in elsewhere, and in 6 years it won't have the capacity to take it all on. Even then, the OOB kids feeding up from JO and LT will continue to make it a school that doesn't completely "flip." Which may be good or bad, but their size alone limits he kind of programming they can offer.

It's tough, I don't want to push kids out, I want them to have access to great schools and programming as well, but no one in their right mind is going to send their kid off to be one of the few in class that can read at grade level... It's just not going to happen and I'm so tired of this "dig in and make it work" crap that people toss around. If you made EH a test-in and gave it a principal that wanted the parents' support in creating world class programming, it would have all the resources and motivation thrown behind it you can imagine. And guess what, many low SES kids would benefit.

Thanks PP, for responding to my post. yes, this issue, it sounds to me like this needs resolving somehow. Other places where people have managed to rally around a school, there has been some unity IB and only then do you push the govt. Otherwise the govt will just point out the disagreement and say they can't please everyone. There is a different issue going on at Hardy now, where the IB and OOB have different interests and are sometimes at odds. The IB mostly agree, they just can't organize, for whatever unfathomable reason. [b]But it seems that on the Hill you need to get unity around a single MS among IB and then push for it.[b]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not the PP, but my take on Jefferson...

Jefferson was a good school in the recent past largely due to a strong Principal who attracted/recruited strong students. The principal retired and the school's quality fell. Rhee asked Capitol Hill parents what they would like in a middle school. There was not a consensus opinion, but one request was for a stronger academic program at Jefferson. Rhee created Jefferson academy at the school in response to the ask, but it was less than the parents wanted, and it wasn't fully funded to make it successful. Jefferson has a new strong principal who has had some success with discipline and test scores, but still no/few middle class Capitol Hill kids attend Jefferson.

Much of what would be good for Unicorn Middle School would be good for Jefferson. The biggest necessary improvement would be more academic rigor. The school serves students with a wide range in academic preparedness, and offering a more demanding academic track for those who are able would help to attract more CH families. The physical campus for Jefferson is great, but the school is need of modernization.

Things related to Jefferson that may or may not be important factors for Unicorn Middle School, Stuart Hobson is nearby and attracts many of the potential students (to an inferior campus). An even bigger factor luring students away is Basis and to some degree Latin.

Thanks. Have the Jefferson folks had any discussion with Hardy parents or closely reviewed developments there? What you are facing is the classic "chicken and egg" dilemma that exists all over the city. It seems that Hardy has come closer than anyone to cracking the code on this. At a very high-level, as I understand things, this was basically an agreement among families to attend combined with an agreement with the principal to provide programming they desired.

I think part of the challenge is that there really aren't a lot of "Jefferson folks." They don't have an active PTA. The principal is pretty busy running the school and dealing with IB certification. There's some community involvement/support, but not a lot of folks at feeder schools who are really pushing for it to feel like a better option to middle class and/or white families. Amidon has a small PTA of mostly families with younger kids. There's enough work to do there without getting involved in the middle school too. Van Ness is similar--they're almost all parents of kids under age 5 and I think many are unsure what their plans will be for middle school. They are working on opening their school first (plus, when you read stuff like the GGE article and threads on this website, you might also get the feeling that some families in Navy Yard aren't very interested in their kids mingling with poor or black folks....). Tyler and Brent are totally disconnected from Jefferson geographically and ideologically. With Eliot-Hine having so many open seats, I think many of them are focusing there.

In contrast, many of the families currently at the school or hoping to go are understandably content with the school being a "hidden gem"--a place where mostly black, mostly low-income kids do pretty well. Jefferson is significantly better than Eliot-Hine on test scores, and is approaching Hardy on some metrics, especially for 8th graders (whose test scores are arguably the best reflection of what the school can do, while 6th grade scores are more influenced by elementary education) and if you compare apples-to-apples by comparing economically disadvantaged students at each school. Learndc has all this data. So not everyone agrees the school needs to be doing more to reach out and woo more families (especially families they fear might look down on them!).

One last point to note: the school is scheduled for substantial renovations starting Summer 2016. I don't trust DCPS on everything, but after seeing Dunbar, Cardozo, etc. I think they do a beautiful job on construction.

Brent parent here. No one from Brent has been focused on Eliot-Hine and none will ever do so IMHO. In any event, the DME just took away the Brent "feed" to Eliot-Hine, as if this actually means anything when the school is significantly underenrolled and NO IB student has ever found a reason to attend. I can't see anyone from our cohort attending Jefferson either. We are continuing to assess options, including moving IB for Deal or Montgomery County after 4th Grade as Latin has become nearly impossible to get into and the Basis model may not be a good fit for our DC. We might have given Stuart-Hobson a shot but DCPS and the DME have no interest in finding a way to push that school to the next level by ensuring that it becomes a true neighborhood school. Truly disappointing.

This reads like every option except one that creates a high ses enclave at SH is off the table for Brent parents. You did realize this is a city, right?

Said the smug asshole who lives IB for Janeey/Deal no doubt.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's most likely to give is the determination of many high SES families to stay on the Hill past elementary, at least once BASIS stops making it through their WLs by September. DCPS clearly doesn't give a damn if we stay.

so maybe Henerson's gaffes are meant to urge CH parents into charters?

Maybe it's time to confront her directly on these issues. "have you given up on a CH middle school? Are you hoping for a charter to come in? Do you hope to work for the charter system when you leave DCPS? Do you care whether current residents stay in the district or are you waiting for a new batch of babies? How does this any of this fit with being chancellor of DCPS?"

Isn't there also a question of lack of unity among high-SES people on Capitol Hill? I read elsewhere on DCUM that there is/was a vocal group of parents who are more liberal/in favor of diversity and they oppose this idea of consolidating high-SES in one school. And they have been politically successful? Is this true or not? If it's true then you may need to resolve this disagreement within the community before you can get govt to change.

Well, there is this. Consolidation or test-in is something that 90% of hill parents would rejoice over, but the old gaurd, namely CHPSO, is pretty crunchy about it and it's hard to nave a candid, realistic conversation about all of this with them in the room. It's also a tough thing to discuss in-person, without sounding like a total self-serving asshole. Which is unfortunate, because all it means is the folks at Maury are "committed" and SH "is a perfectly fine option" until they lottery out, or move, or find ANY OTHER option. It'll be interesting to see what actually happens but my money is on no high-SES kids landing at Hine within the next 5 years, and same for Jefferson. SH will be a catch all for the kids that don't get in elsewhere, and in 6 years it won't have the capacity to take it all on. Even then, the OOB kids feeding up from JO and LT will continue to make it a school that doesn't completely "flip." Which may be good or bad, but their size alone limits he kind of programming they can offer.

It's tough, I don't want to push kids out, I want them to have access to great schools and programming as well, but no one in their right mind is going to send their kid off to be one of the few in class that can read at grade level... It's just not going to happen and I'm so tired of this "dig in and make it work" crap that people toss around. If you made EH a test-in and gave it a principal that wanted the parents' support in creating world class programming, it would have all the resources and motivation thrown behind it you can imagine. And guess what, many low SES kids would benefit.

Thanks PP, for responding to my post. yes, this issue, it sounds to me like this needs resolving somehow. Other places where people have managed to rally around a school, there has been some unity IB and only then do you push the govt. Otherwise the govt will just point out the disagreement and say they can't please everyone. There is a different issue going on at Hardy now, where the IB and OOB have different interests and are sometimes at odds. The IB mostly agree, they just can't organize, for whatever unfathomable reason. But it seems that on the Hill you need to get unity around a single MS among IB and then push for it.